Skeeter Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) As far as the little guy (like me) is concerned... nothing is better than Devcon. If you cannot touch the lure without it feeling tacky after 8 hrs. then it was not mixed properly. Everybody needs to quit knocking their brains out on this clearcoat stuff. Get over it and use the Devcon. If you are not getting good results, then you are doing something wrong and I will be more than happy to help anyone. I have been doing this for over 10 yrs. I have used it all and have spent my share of money and time with with no other clearcoat proving itself better. The reason that the big guys don't use it is because the application is time consuming, just like making good baits. Skeeter Edited January 27, 2011 by Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J's Muskie Customs Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 As far as the little guy (like me) is concerned... nothing is better than Devcon. If you cannot touch the lure without it feeling tacky after 8 hrs. then it was not mixed properly. Everybody needs to quit knocking their brains out on this clearcoat stuff. Get over it and use the Devcon. If you are not getting good results, then you are doing something wrong and I will be more than happy to help anyone. I have been doing this for over 10 yrs. I have used it all and have spent my share of money and time with with no other clearcoat proving itself better. The reason that the big guys don't use it is because the application is time consuming, just like making good baits. Skeeter talk about hit it on the head, knock it out of the park, you are spot on there skeet! I have used both...the etex seems thin, stays tacky too long which gives a longer window to attract dust and particles to trash your topcoat, longer production time for drying, messier dripping stuff, takes multiple coats to acheive same mil. level. I started out by using the etex but now i am going to use my last bit and am making the conversion to devcon. devcon all the way. very durable, very deep and rich looking, awesome finish for the time you took to make your bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Well now I have to laugh and make fun of myself. Today I went to clearcoat 3 lures. One with Devcon and the other 2 with a car clear. I shot the car clear and and then went to the Devcon. All of the sudden I started seeing bubbles in the Devcon as I brushed it on the lure. I tried to brush them out and all of the sudden the lures had a chunk in it. I worked with it, and got it fixed, and put the lure on the wheel. Then all of the sudden I looked at the two that I shot the clear on and they had pitted horribly. I was like.... WTF. Then I looked at my humidity gauge in the room and it said 42% (50 to 70 % is good). So I kicked on a little humidifier that I have in the room and took the humidity up to 58%. No more troubles after that. But the two sprayed lures had to be stripped. I will have to repaint them. So not only epoxy... but paint too is affected by humidity. I know this, but really have never had much problems with paint. So maybe I should take my own advice and check the temp/humidity before I start. Skeeter Edited January 28, 2011 by Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I have now coated 5 different baits with d2t. My first bait went really well, 2 fish eyes, no lumps, and completely cured. Ever since, I have had nothing but issues. I have a lure turner built and am using it. The last 4 baits I have tried to coat have been very lumpy in spots, had multiple fish eyes, and the d2t remains sticky after over 48 hours. It leaves a fingerprint without giving any pressure to the coating. Any ideas on what I am doing wrong? I have not been thinning it. I have tried putting on a thin coat and a thick coat(seemed thick). Thanks for the replies guys. Zeb, Like anything, it takes some time to get the knack of using epoxy. My guess is you didn't mix it enough if you got lumps. I squeeze equal pools of resin/hardener into a shallow jar top covered with tin foil and mix the heck out of it with a plastic strip cut from an old credit card, for at least 30 seconds. If it's cold in the garage and the epoxy is thick, I mix in a FEW drops of denatured alcohol. The alcohol just about doubles the brush time and will help expel air bubbles. I like an artist's brush to apply epoxy. The fine bristles help pop bubbles. You want to smooth it on the lure, always keeping the brush loaded and never dragging a dry brush over the surface. For me, doing 2 bass lures per batch of epoxy is comfortable. There's no sense in pushing it if the results are a ruined lure that you spent hours building. As far as fisheyes, I think they can be caused by oil on the lure. I also think you can cause one if your brush fails to make good contact somewhere, leaving dry paint under the epoxy. Have a plan in mind when you start brushing epoxy and follow your routine every time so you won't leave any dry spots. I start around the margins of the lip, hit the tail and the belly hanger, then start with the back and work my way around the lure, always brushing head to tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I thought I knew enough about how to use Devcon 2T as a a clearcoat to achieve good results, but now I'm beginning to doubt that. Sometimes too much science can hurt your brain, and that's how I feel right now. I only made 2 or 3 crankbaits that I have clearcoated with straight Devcon 2T, and they turned out perfect, at room temperature, but I have no idea about what the humidity in the air was. For the rest of the lures coated with Devcon 2 ton I have used thinned epoxy, but not with alcohol. Instead, I have used virgin thinner, and the results were very good. I didn't use just a few drops, but I few more, I woulds say. So that one coat was usually not enough to level out the rough surface of the lure on which I have glued the fish image, glued itself onto a rather thick aluminum foil. So I had to put on a second thinned clearcoat. I prefer to put on 2 thinned coats of Devcon 2T instead of a single straight coat. I feel that this way the epoxy becomes less brittle, but I cannot back up my feeling with scientific arguments. Besides, as BobP says, thinning the epoxy means a longer brushable time, and also a much easier way to get rid of air bubbles (just use a hair drier for that). While it is very obvious to me that the the surrounding temperature is very important when you want to brush your epoxy on the lure, I cannot understand what humidity has to do with it. And if it had to do with it, I would be inclined to say that the less humidity in the air, the better the results would be. But I obviously miss something here. If you have pity for my headache, please help me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Less humidity in the air causes premature curing. Devcon can become very tacky quickly. This causes air bubbles to become trapped in the mixture, difficulty brushing the clearcoat on (chunks,streaks,pits,..etc), and the possibility that the clearcoat will not spread out evenly once the bait is on your drying wheel. Skeeter Edited January 28, 2011 by Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwags Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I'm pretty sure humidity has no effect on epoxy curing. Epoxies are heat cured, not humidity cured. Stuff like lumiseal and Permagloss that are urethanes are sensitive to humidity. The greater the humidity, the faster they cure. Many rod builders like to apply epoxy on rainy days because it knocks the dust down. Personally I've seen no affect from humidity on the drying times of my lures or rods. jeremy Edited January 28, 2011 by Jwags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I only recently started using D2T, managed to find it locally at great expense. My first few attempts at coating looked like a moon scape. I am talking upto 100 fish eyes on a 3.5” lure. I then realized why there are so many posts on the subject. I was way too embarrassed to post my problem after all the reading that I have done. I then tried to isolate the problem, paying specific attention to each step of the process: finger prints, sanding, rags/tissue contamination, humidity, mixing container etc. It turned out to be the rattle can paint that I was using, despite allowing days to cure. Since I axed the rattle can, I have had no problems. Because I am only doing proto’s, the odd fish eye is not of concern, so I don’t even worry about finger handling. Humidity is minimum 70% and usually closer to 90%, I have not concerned myself about this either. Now I am not having any problems. Apart from the odd bubble that I failed to spot, my finishes are better than I ever hoped. I now suspect most D2T problems occur from what you are coating. My application method is a fairly stiff brush, I lay the epoxy on thick and scrub it onto the surface, to completely wet the surface, then brush it smooth. Drying wheel completes the process. Do not get me wrong, If I wanted a guaranteed good finish, I would coose my mixing container carefully, careful measurement, thorough mixing, no touching, clean fresh sand paper/emery, no tissue paper, controlled humidity, strong inspection light and smooth drying wheel action. And of course, for me, no more rattle cans (I am spooked for life). Why take chances when you have put so much time into the build. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I thought I knew enough about how to use Devcon 2T as a a clearcoat to achieve good results, but now I'm beginning to doubt that. Sometimes too much science can hurt your brain, and that's how I feel right now. I only made 2 or 3 crankbaits that I have clearcoated with straight Devcon 2T, and they turned out perfect, at room temperature, but I have no idea about what the humidity in the air was. For the rest of the lures coated with Devcon 2 ton I have used thinned epoxy, but not with alcohol. Instead, I have used virgin thinner, and the results were very good. I didn't use just a few drops, but I few more, I woulds say. So that one coat was usually not enough to level out the rough surface of the lure on which I have glued the fish image, glued itself onto a rather thick aluminum foil. So I had to put on a second thinned clearcoat. I prefer to put on 2 thinned coats of Devcon 2T instead of a single straight coat. I feel that this way the epoxy becomes less brittle, but I cannot back up my feeling with scientific arguments. Besides, as BobP says, thinning the epoxy means a longer brushable time, and also a much easier way to get rid of air bubbles (just use a hair drier for that). While it is very obvious to me that the the surrounding temperature is very important when you want to brush your epoxy on the lure, I cannot understand what humidity has to do with it. And if it had to do with it, I would be inclined to say that the less humidity in the air, the better the results would be. But I obviously miss something here. If you have pity for my headache, please help me out. Rofish, I've never done photo realistic lures but for multiple coats of epoxy, I might try Envirotex Lite which comes pre-thinned and is relatively inexpensive (a 2 bottle pint of Etex runs less than $15 at craft shops around here). Etex has a good reputation for durability and flexibility. Its downside for me is the long time it takes to begin hardening, requiring several hours of rotation. I haven't considered whether humidity levels have an effect on epoxy curing, all I can say is I haven't noticed it. As far as solvents; after it's mixed, I suspect you can use lots of stuff to thin Devcon without much effect on it curing. I like denatured alcohol for the time it extends brushing time while not much extending the normal times to various cure states. I've never had a problem with it, which I've occasionally had with other solvents. Like most builders, some of the stuff I do or don't do amounts to Crankbait JuJu - Did it once, screwed it up, now it's verboten. Did it some, never screwed up, now it's THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE DONE. I'm not a materials or coatings scientist so have to rely on superstition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwags Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 For those of you that don't like the longer cure time of Etex, I've been using Diamond II from Bullard International. It's stays much clearer and it's a medium build so it will give you better coverage than Etex which is a light build. It cures much faster! jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtrs5kprs Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 BobP hit the nail on the head. I have been using Devcon for over 10 yrs. I have done everything in the world to the stuff. Heating it causes it to run. A normal speed drying wheel will not spin quickly enough to even it out. It also causes it to cure prematurely and will not be as tough. You can maybe thin it some. But I just get the temp and humidity right in the room that I work in to get it put on properly. Also... the brush that you use to apply it makes a difference also. Skeeter Skeeter...isn't this where I jump in with my bottles of Flex Coat for old times sake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Ha Dave.... That would definitely be a classic!! JWAGS... Devcon is a resin based epoxy. It cures thru heat caused by the activator of the 2 part mixture. The lack of moisture causes the mixture to cure quicker. It will not flow out as well on a wheel. I am not saying that it is the only thing that causes pitting. It could be the paint as mentioned earlier or a bunch of other things. I only know what my experience with the stuff is. Trust me... humidity makes a difference. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwags Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Ha Dave.... That would definitely be a classic!! JWAGS... Devcon is a resin based epoxy. It cures thru heat caused by the activator of the 2 part mixture. The lack of moisture causes the mixture to cure quicker. It will not flow out as well on a wheel. I am not saying that it is the only thing that causes pitting. It could be the paint as mentioned earlier or a bunch of other things. I only know what my experience with the stuff is. Trust me... humidity makes a difference. Skeeter My experience has actually been quite different. I keep my basement at a constant 68-70 degrees. It can be as dry as 10% humidity in winter and as wet at 95% humidity when it floods due to rain. I've never noticed the slightest difference in drying time of any of the epoxies that I use no matter what the humidity. I'm not trying to start an argument, it seems that alot of guys just want to argue these days on forums. It's not that important to me to be 'right'. I'm just stating my experience with epoxy and humidity. For further reading check out this: http://rodbuilding.org/search.php?2,search=humidity,author=,page=1,match_type=ALL,match_dates=30,match_forum=ALL,match_threads=0 jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Jeremy, Huh... that is cool. We are all just stating our experiences. That is what this forum is all about. Wish my stuff would act like yours. The only thing that I can speak about is Devcon. That is what I truely know. No matter what folks say, not all epoxies are created equal. Skeeter Edited February 4, 2011 by Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwags Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 No matter what folks say, not all epoxies are created equal. Skeeter Very true! jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekoutdoors.co Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 D2T that JUNK! I got so mad at that stuff it never cured on half my baits and I thought I mixed it really well. I just all together quit using that except for glueing bills on baits. I use DN now and never had problem and it stays good for a long time to work with. I just put a little in a plastic container I am using and brush it on and I have 45 minutes to 1 hour to use it before it gets to sticky to coat baits with anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 D2T that JUNK! I got so mad at that stuff it never cured on half my baits and I thought I mixed it really well. I just all together quit using that except for glueing bills on baits. I use DN now and never had problem and it stays good for a long time to work with. I just put a little in a plastic container I am using and brush it on and I have 45 minutes to 1 hour to use it before it gets to sticky to coat baits with anymore. Hey, whatever works for you... go for it! I use both D2T and original formula (moisture cured) Dick Nite. Each has advantages and disadvantages and I like them both. I NEVER have D2T fail to cure hard if measured and mixed right. Of the 2, mixing gets my bid as most important. I mix the HELL out of it, until it has so much air mixed in that it looks like milk. One reason I often add a little denatured alcohol is that it helps the mix to expel those air bubbles. Plus, I've mixed it so long and hard that I'm often running short on "brush time" and a little denatured alcohol will extend that. Same reason I use a fine bristle artist's brush to apply it - the fine bristles help to burst any bubbles. Other guys who use D2T successfully use different tools, different methods, etc. All I can say is that I think it's one of the easiest very durable one-coat topcoats to learn how to use reliably. But fortunately, there are lots of options if you think differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 D2T that JUNK! I got so mad at that stuff it never cured on half my baits and I thought I mixed it really well. I just all together quit using that except for glueing bills on baits. I use DN now and never had problem and it stays good for a long time to work with. I just put a little in a plastic container I am using and brush it on and I have 45 minutes to 1 hour to use it before it gets to sticky to coat baits with anymore. You could also have gotten an old, or bad, batch of D2T. I use DN, D2T and Etex and like all three of them for different applications. Seems like the bills on your baits would be pulling out if the D2T wasn't curing properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtrs5kprs Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Ha Dave.... That would definitely be a classic!! JWAGS... Devcon is a resin based epoxy. It cures thru heat caused by the activator of the 2 part mixture. The lack of moisture causes the mixture to cure quicker. It will not flow out as well on a wheel. I am not saying that it is the only thing that causes pitting. It could be the paint as mentioned earlier or a bunch of other things. I only know what my experience with the stuff is. Trust me... humidity makes a difference. Skeeter Am actually using with some 2 ton as a sealer on a few balsa wake baits. Had it mixed up for the hardware, not looking for pretty (that would require Flexcoat, of course), more interested in putting them together quickly so I can run them and check for blance, tune, and the V wake I am shooting for. Baits need a little extra weight/strength anyway. Who knows, maybe I'll convert after all this time. Now Skeet, what were you doing playing with spray coats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
