Crymdawg Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Not sure if this was ever covered in other posts or not, but I've noticed that after a few minutes of heating my lead in a Lee Production pot the top of the molten lead gets discolored at the top. I flux using a product from "Frankford Arsenal" and skim off the resultant black stuff on the top. I usually keep the temperature setting on the high side so I get good flow thru the molds. To describe the color I would say it starts out a Bluish Silver than changes to a Yellowish Brown. I'm using recovered wheel weights and some ingots I've bought from eBay. I've melted these items in the pot then poured them into small muffin pans that are about the size of a golfball. Have no problem with the resulting pours. Just checking to see if I have an issue or is this normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 The color you're seeing means the lead is too hot, if I keep my pot turned all the way up after the lead melts it will turn color like that until I turn the heat down and 5 minutes later it is back to normal. I'm not sure if it hurts to have it that hot but I prefer to have it as close to normal as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymdawg Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 The color you're seeing means the lead is too hot, if I keep my pot turned all the way up after the lead melts it will turn color like that until I turn the heat down and 5 minutes later it is back to normal. I'm not sure if it hurts to have it that hot but I prefer to have it as close to normal as possible. Don't you want the lead hot to get a smooth pour ?? I started off with the temperature knob at around a "4" and I had a lot of incomplete pours. That was during the summer in my garage. Now in my unheated basement (60 degrees) I have the knob at "7 or 8" and have to keep making empty mold pours as the wire shafts and hooks and a bit chilly. In fact what worked good most recently was to dip the part of the wire form where the hook attaches and the hook eye in to the molten lead to preheat them so I get a complete pour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I have my pot on 6 or 7 most of the time but what I do is place the hooks and wire I'll be using around the pot, not to close that they get too hot to touch but just nice and warm. In the summer is when most of the problems happen but I believe it is due to humidity rather than temp and if you are getting discoloration at 7 then instead of turning the pot down, try adding some more lead to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I would have thought that some discoloration on top of the melt was normal no matter what the temperature. From school I remember that lead oxidizes very fast, so fast that you can see it (room temperature). So at elevated temperatures, this oxidation would be much faster. If I am wrong, I stand corrected. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I too have noticed that higher melt temps result in more and quicker forming floating dross. No way to avoid it when molds require hotter melts for complete cavity fill out. I would estimate that my working heat range would vary from approx. 700*F for big gate sinkers to 900-1,000*F for certain heavy wire hook jig heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCBOS Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I am very new to pouring, but I have made a few observations. When I am using SOFT lead I get the blue then brown on top if I have the pot temperature all the way up. 9 on my pot. If I turn it down to 7-7.5 It does not happen. If I am using HARD lead I get the same blue then brown gunk with the thermostat at 7. It will go away if I turn it down to 6-6.5. I use both kinds of lead depending on what I am pouring. I have no idea what this means or why. Just what I have observed. There are some very smart guys on this site that I bet could tell us. I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Today I was pouring jigs with the lee pot turned on 9. My lead also was discolored . I turned it down to about 7.5 and the discoloration seemed to be less noticeable. It also seemed to pour a more smoother jig. What I still don't seem to grasp is the effect of fluxing. Is there an obvious indicator that is observable to validate fluxing ? I was fluxing on and off today and using lead that was fairly clean to start with. I never really could experience an improvement from fluxing. What am I missing ? I read the entire previous sticky up there about fluxing and I still don't get it. Not complaining , just trying to understand for learning purposes. Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLT Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Today I was pouring jigs with the lee pot turned on 9. My lead also was discolored . I turned it down to about 7.5 and the discoloration seemed to be less noticeable. It also seemed to pour a more smoother jig. What I still don't seem to grasp is the effect of fluxing. Is there an obvious indicator that is observable to validate fluxing ? I was fluxing on and off today and using lead that was fairly clean to start with. I never really could experience an improvement from fluxing. What am I missing ? I read the entire previous sticky up there about fluxing and I still don't get it. Not complaining , just trying to understand for learning purposes. Thanks Steve Are you using the Lee pot that you use the ladle with, or the bottom pour? I only flux to get some of the crap out of the lead, that's all. Most of my pouring is the bottom pouring, but when I do the larger jigs, 5 oz. and up, I sometimes use a ladle, but even then never worry about the discoloring. To help fill the cavities batter? I find smoking with a candle works better. I did want to get that release spray, but B.P. Shop didn't have it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Are you using the Lee pot that you use the ladle with, or the bottom pour? I only flux to get some of the crap out of the lead, that's all. Most of my pouring is the bottom pouring, but when I do the larger jigs, 5 oz. and up, I sometimes use a ladle, but even then never worry about the discoloring. To help fill the cavities batter? I find smoking with a candle works better. I did want to get that release spray, but B.P. Shop didn't have it! BLT, I am using a small Lee pot that is a bottom pour. I had good luck with the results just don't understand the fluxing yet. Is the candle thing so the jig will release from the mold? I did have a very minor issue with that yesterday. Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterjay Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I've noticed the same discoloration when melting tin, but it doesn't seem to show up in the finished product. My guess is that it's nothing worth losing any sleep over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLT Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 BLT, I am using a small Lee pot that is a bottom pour. I had good luck with the results just don't understand the fluxing yet. Is the candle thing so the jig will release from the mold? I did have a very minor issue with that yesterday. Thanks Steve I only do it to purify the lead. I use the candle method to help release the jigs until I put an order in for a can. Bass Pro didn't have it, and neither did Cabelas....in stock anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Crymdawg........The bluish, yellow tint you see on top of the lead is from the lead being too hot as Smalljaw stated. If you have a Lee IV pot there is no reason to crank it up all the way and leave it there. It was 40 degrees in my garage yesterday and I was pouring jigs no problem with the knob set at #7. Anything below #6 is too cold. (These are just my recommendations). Steve 187......On fluxing, this is just a step to purify the lead. It will never make it so pure to the point that you will not have to use it regularly. I flux at the beginning of every day I start pouring. Then and only then do I add more if I'm having pouring problems. There is no time interval or time frame when you should flux. If you do it at every start-up and you have no issues pouring all day don't flux again. No need to if everything is going good. To all lead pourers........The main reason many people don't get good pours is heat. You must::::: #1 Have hot lead in your pot. #2 Your molds must be hot, and I mean hot. #3 In winter (especially in winter) keep your hooks warm or hot. Like Smalljaw commented, put the hooks on your pot, or what I do is put them in a black tray and I put a 100 watt incadescent bulb over the tray on the hooks. This will keep them hot. #4 Make blank pours before you put the hooks in your mold, to see if it fills the cavity. #5 Some molds fill better if they are tilted front to back or side to side, close to the spout or some molds with the pot spout seated in the mold sprue hole. The latter works 50% of the time because it is like injecting hot lead int a mold cavity. #6 Use mold release. I have started using this, this past year, and it has solved all my problems with prblematic molds. Finally like with anything, there is trial and error and little tricks you will find that work for you. Write all this down per mold, so next time you pour that mold you have a starting point and adjust from there. One other thing I will comment on is this. As Smalljaw mentioned, lead does pour better in winter, and yes it is because of humidity. I never get bad pours in winter here in IL. When Spring to Summer rolls around, well the annoyances with lead pouring starts here and you just have to deal with things you can not control. Sorry for the rambling but this kind of gives pouring lead 101 in a nutshell...........Good Luck Guys. PS: I'm sure there are some things I forgot to mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymdawg Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I only do it to purify the lead. I use the candle method to help release the jigs until I put an order in for a can. Bass Pro didn't have it, and neither did Cabelas....in stock anyway. I bought a spray can of Mold Release spray from midwayusa.com . They are a large parts and specialty catalog for the gunsmithing and bullet reloading enthusiast. I also believe that I recently found the same product in the BARLOW's Fishing website. It is basically a graphite spray on powder. It is made by "Frankford Arsenal". Bass Pro or Cabelas is too much of a general consumer catalog for something this specific. You'll also find some "Lead Fluxing compound" at the locations I suggested as well. It's a white powder that chemically does its magic to remove the junk in the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro2001 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I really appreciate all the great info on this site. I'm a new memeber to this site, but have read up and learned very much. Started slow, but have caught on. I used the candle for a release and it seems to be working well - making sure the molds are warm/hot before pouring - and all the great tips. Have been just pouring jigs and really like what i see. Yet - this is where i need help. I have a bottom pourer and it seems to clog up very easy. I took a drill bit to push through the bottom. It works, but now I can't even a drip............ It's a little frustrating, but am progressing carefully. Would really appreciate the board's expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Fishious Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 The discoloration on the top is nothing but impurites and the resulting oxidation with the air. If you are bottom pouring, leave this layer of discoloration/top slag alone, ladle to the side when adding more lead. If you are top ladling, just use your ladle to move it to one side of the pot, scoop your lead and pour. I use a Lee production pot and top ladle all the time (alot of the jigs I pour are large) I pour roughly 400-500 lbs a year of jigs and sinkers and they come out a beautiful shiny silver. I also use soft lead, no tire weights or type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLT Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 The discoloration on the top is nothing but impurites and the resulting oxidation with the air. If you are bottom pouring, leave this layer of discoloration/top slag alone, ladle to the side when adding more lead. If you are top ladling, just use your ladle to move it to one side of the pot, scoop your lead and pour. I use a Lee production pot and top ladle all the time (alot of the jigs I pour are large) I pour roughly 400-500 lbs a year of jigs and sinkers and they come out a beautiful shiny silver. I also use soft lead, no tire weights or type. You don't use a bottom feed at all? I use one for everything, and my largest lure would be 5 oz. I may be getting the 5,6, and 8oz. ultra minnow mold, and am thinking that will not go to well with the bottom feed. I have bank sinkers molds up to 18oz., but don't use them, go out of sinker sales, but do package a 1 or 2 oz. with some of my rigs. Ready to fish rigs. Good for sales. I have a lot of molds I don't use any more, I think they are old Reading molds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Fishious Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 You don't use a bottom feed at all? I use one for everything, and my largest lure would be 5 oz. I may be getting the 5,6, and 8oz. ultra minnow mold, and am thinking that will not go to well with the bottom feed. I have bank sinkers molds up to 18oz., but don't use them, go out of sinker sales, but do package a 1 or 2 oz. with some of my rigs. Ready to fish rigs. Good for sales. I have a lot of molds I don't use any more, I think they are old Reading molds. I do use the bottom feed sometimes, but for anything I've ever poured over a few ounces, I've found a ladle is the way to go. I also prefer it when I am doing single cast pieces, like in my molds I've modified. Going slow already, might as well insure a good pour.It reduces the chances of getting ripples or layering in your castings. If I'm helping a friend with his downrigger mold, we will use 2 ladles with the larger mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
