jtilley Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ok, I have done a search so I wouldn't be re- asking a question, but i came up dry, So here's my question. Has anyone used pvc cement as a sealer , or topcoat?? I was laying on my back under a house, plumbing a washer drain when some of the pvc glue dripped on my hand , and within minutes was dry hard and shiny....... I thought, hmmmm. So when I crawled out a few minutes later I painted some on a piece of 2 x 4, and it dried quick, hard , and shiny. So before I paint it on my lures , I'm wondering has anyone tried it , and what are your opinions???? Thanks, I have learned loads by reading the forums, I just hope to someday be able to produce something distantly as awesome as what I see on here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbilly1 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Well as for a top coat I dont think it will work if i remember right PVC cement has a realty strong solvent in it so it would pro. just wipe the paint off. But for sealing wood it may work might have to give it a try myself. "While it is recommended that the cement be applied between 40-100 degrees F, weather conditions may not make this feasible. A strong solvent welded joint can be made at temperatures below freezing, as long as the cement is fluid, cure times are extended and other handling precautions are followed. Cements are available which are designed for temperatures outside of this temperature range – consult manufacturer’s web sites for more use and proper storage information." http://www.ppfahome.org/cements/faqcements.html It welds the pvc, I couldnt remember what it did Edited January 25, 2011 by hillbilly1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 You can use anything as a sealer as long as it inhibits water penetration long enough for water based acrylics to dry on it before they raise the wood grain. The only thing I would warn against is using the PVC pipe cement with the blue dye. That dye will leach through acrylic paint and show on the lure's surface. Not all PVC pipe cement has blue dye but it's required by many states for inspection purposes. I used some to join the sections of a Zara Spook that I shortened one time, and it leached right through. Lots of stuff works fine just for waterproofing but some choose sealers (aka undercoating, primer, etc) for added characteristics like good leveling over rough sanded wood, quick dry or cure, ability to not react badly with later solvent based coatings, wood reinforcement, etc. Let us know how it works for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 My experience with PVC glue is that it bonds to the PVC by melting the surface slightly. That's why it has such a strong solvent. I'm not sure it would penetrate wood enough to provide a mechanical bond, so peeling might be an issue. Do a test on a piece of wood, and let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 My experience with PVC glue is that it bonds to the PVC by melting the surface slightly. That's why it has such a strong solvent. I'm not sure it would penetrate wood enough to provide a mechanical bond, so peeling might be an issue. Do a test on a piece of wood, and let us know. I am testing this also. The solvent is not as strong as acetone. Pure acetone wipes my paint right off but the PVC glue does not. PVC glue is basically MEK solvent (possible blend with other solvents) with dissolved polystyrene and sometimes butadiene (natural rubber). Once the solvent evaporates you are left with the PS/ABS resin. The big question I have yet to answer is how long it takes water to penetrate the top coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I am testing this also. The solvent is not as strong as acetone. Pure acetone wipes my paint right off but the PVC glue does not. PVC glue is basically MEK solvent (possible blend with other solvents) with dissolved polystyrene and sometimes butadiene (natural rubber). Once the solvent evaporates you are left with the PS/ABS resin. The big question I have yet to answer is how long it takes water to penetrate the top coat. In the spirit of replying to my own response, I suspect a strong heat treatment with this top coat would significantly increase the durability. Reasoning is the heat allows (1) any solvent to escape and (2) the polymer strands can reach a more dense and aligned structure under heat, and when cooled they would stretch out (the heat in essence creates a stretched rubber band effect which contracts around your bait as it cools). This is all theory. I need to consult my polymer book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I dipped a painted resin bait half into PVC glue yesterday and let it cure. Then I drowned it in a glass of water for 4 hours. The paint not covered in PVC glue began to soften but the paint covered by the PVC glue was unaffected. I will continue testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) I am testing this also. The solvent is not as strong as acetone. Pure acetone wipes my paint right off but the PVC glue does not. PVC glue is basically MEK solvent (possible blend with other solvents) with dissolved polystyrene and sometimes butadiene (natural rubber). Once the solvent evaporates you are left with the PS/ABS resin. The big question I have yet to answer is how long it takes water to penetrate the top coat. I love it when you talk dirty! Seriously, it's great to have someone who understands this stuff on the forum. Thanks. One question, though. Are you using the one part glue? I'm assuming you are, since the primer I've seen for the two part is blue. Edited May 8, 2011 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I love it when you talk dirty! Seriously, it's great to have someone who understands this stuff on the forum. Thanks. One question, though. Are you using the one part glue? I'm assuming you are, since the primer I've seen for the two part is blue. I got it at lowes, the brand is Oatey All Purpose Cement. It is a milky white one part glue. When it dries it becomes highly translucent matte. I like the idea of having a matte finish. I will make a full bait with this top coat and see how abrasion resistant it is. Definitely is water proof enough for lure use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I got it at lowes, the brand is Oatey All Purpose Cement. It is a milky white one part glue. When it dries it becomes highly translucent matte. I like the idea of having a matte finish. I will make a full bait with this top coat and see how abrasion resistant it is. Definitely is water proof enough for lure use. Great. I can't wait to hear your report. Thanks for thinking outside the box, whichever way it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danderson Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I'm pretty sure it will yellow as a top coat. It could work as a sealer maybe but I wouldn't use it as a top coat. I have a pool and inevitably I have to replace joints and parts due to the freeze. They always yellow after being in the sun awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 10, 2011 Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 I'm pretty sure it will yellow as a top coat. It could work as a sealer maybe but I wouldn't use it as a top coat. I have a pool and inevitably I have to replace joints and parts due to the freeze. They always yellow after being in the sun awhile. You could be right, although I bet if you left just about any top coat in the sun for several hundred hours it would degrade in some way. Thanks for the heads up. I will post if I have any discoloration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 You could be right, although I bet if you left just about any top coat in the sun for several hundred hours it would degrade in some way. Thanks for the heads up. I will post if I have any discoloration. Thought I would give an update. The positive: easy to mix up, cures ultra fast, can dip. The negatives: soft, does not adhere well to foiled surfaces, slightly milky matte finish. Might work for some applications, but its a no-go for me. The quest continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
