Paint Primer

[floydfire]

I been having some problems with my paint or primer not sure which one. Ive been having flaking issues from the primer and the paint and of couse the exopy is coming off as well. I'm using a spray can primer rustoleum and using diff. waterbased paints some colors seem to stick OK I have been heating my exopy after applied and seems to be hardening GOOD but for what ever reason the paint is not sticking to the primer I"m wondering if anyone else maybe having or had this problem. Appears to be peeling off in large pieces I'm using Etex exopy and have used on several baits without issues.

1) It maybe the primer is releasing thinner on the paint due to the heating process?

2) Maybe I"m thinning my paint to much with water and causing the issue?

3) Maybe not enough drying time or too much drying time and not sanding between coats?

4) Or maybe I just dont know what I'm doing (which I don't) but this seems to be one color that is really causing the main issue maybe I should find a new color that will work.

5) Maybe the E-tex epoxy I'm using is the problem I know not many people use this for a top coat but it does not seem to be the problem but it might be seems to be good and hard and not break if hit on docks,rocks etc.

I've had the E-tex break by hitting a bridge pillar but it flakes all the way down to the bait if hit hard enough . I'm confused just looking for some ideas or help I dont know if anyone has had any of these problems or not, just wondering if any of these problems have been encountered before.

one other thing can E-tex be thinned and with what and what ratio. thanks ahead of time for any help or suggestions floydfire

[gunnie3035]

I been having some problems with my paint or primer not sure which one. Ive been having flaking issues from the primer and the paint and of couse the exopy is coming off as well. I'm using a spray can primer rustoleum and using diff. waterbased paints some colors seem to stick OK I have been heating my exopy after applied and seems to be hardening GOOD but for what ever reason the paint is not sticking to the primer I"m wondering if anyone else maybe having or had this problem. Appears to be peeling off in large pieces I'm using Etex exopy and have used on several baits without issues.

1) It maybe the primer is releasing thinner on the paint due to the heating process?

2) Maybe I"m thinning my paint to much with water and causing the issue?

3) Maybe not enough drying time or too much drying time and not sanding between coats?

4) Or maybe I just dont know what I'm doing (which I don't) but this seems to be one color that is really causing the main issue maybe I should find a new color that will work.

5) Maybe the E-tex epoxy I'm using is the problem I know not many people use this for a top coat but it does not seem to be the problem but it might be seems to be good and hard and not break if hit on docks,rocks etc.

I've had the E-tex break by hitting a bridge pillar but it flakes all the way down to the bait if hit hard enough . I'm confused just looking for some ideas or help I dont know if anyone has had any of these problems or not, just wondering if any of these problems have been encountered before.

one other thing can E-tex be thinned and with what and what ratio. thanks ahead of time for any help or suggestions floydfire

This has been duscussed multiple times on TU. Get rid of the primer. Use a waterbased color for a primer. It seems every person has the same issue when they use rattle can paint for a primer and then apply WB paints over it.

[BobP]

X2 on getting rid of rattle can primer. Most are designed to etch metal so solvent based auto enamels will adhere to them. Crankbaits aren't metal and we're not using solvent based paints, except for guys who shoot lacquers. Also, if the primer has not completely out-gassed all of its solvent, that will blister the finish. If you feel the need for something, check into "adhesion promoters" like Bullseye. I don't use it but some do, especially on plastic crankbaits. A thicker epoxy topcoat - e.g, multiple coats of Etex - will go a long way toward preventing damage that will delaminate the finish. I think you will have fewer problems if you try using an epoxy or propionate undercoat/primer/waterproofer (whatever you want to call it) on wood baits.

[mark poulson]

I think the most likely problem is that you are over thinning your paint, and using the wrong thing to thin it.

Using water to thin paint, unless it's just a couple of drops, will cause the paint film to lose strength, and you wind up with a flakey paint dust coating, instead of a strong film that will cross link when heated.

Be sure to use fabric paints, not just any water based paints.

Etex works very well as a topcoat. It is thin, so I would do three coats, 8 hours apart.

You can thin it with denatured alcohol, but I've never had to do that. Just brush it out well, and turn it for 8 hours.

I don't think it's the rattle can primer, unless you are not letting it dry/off gas before you start you painting.

I use Rustoleum primer over my PVC baits, and don't have problems.

I typically spray a couple of coats, five minutes apart, to build up a thicker, defect-filling coat, and then wet sand with 400 grit wet and dry paper.

I use my hair dryer to heat the primed lures to make sure the solvent is gone, before I wet sand, and again after I wet sand, to be sure the lures are dry, before I paint. I let them hang overnight before I begin my actual paint scheme.

I use Createx and Auto Aire for my paint schemes, or any fabric paint, and I thin them with the 4011 Auto Aire reducer.

I heat set each coat really well.

I use a water borne urethane topcoat, and don't have problems.

The hair dryer is your friend. It accelerates drying time, and makes paint stronger, so don't skip that step.

If you don't heat set each coat of your paint really well, you run the risk of having a weak layer in your paint build scheme that can fail when you hit something hard. Been there, done that.

Edited March 4, 2011 by mark poulson

[EdL]

I think the most likely problem is that you are over thinning your paint, and using the wrong thing to thin it.

Using water to thin paint, unless it's just a couple of drops, will cause the paint film to lose strength, and you wind up with a flakey paint dust coating, instead of a strong film that will cross link when heated.

Be sure to use fabric paints, not just any water based paints.

Etex works very well as a topcoat. It is thin, so I would do three coats, 8 hours apart.

You can thin it with denatured alcohol, but I've never had to do that. Just brush it out well, and turn it for 8 hours.

I don't think it's the rattle can primer, unless you are not letting it dry/off gas before you start you painting.

I use Rustoleum primer over my PVC baits, and don't have problems.

I typically spray a couple of coats, five minutes apart, to build up a thicker, defect-filling coat, and then wet sand with 400 grit wet and dry paper.

I use my hair dryer to heat the primed lures to make sure the solvent is gone, before I wet sand, and again after I wet sand, to be sure the lures are dry, before I paint. I let them hang overnight before I begin my actual paint scheme.

I use Createx and Auto Aire for my paint schemes, or any fabric paint, and I thin them with the 4011 Auto Aire reducer.

I heat set each coat really well.

I use a water borne urethane topcoat, and don't have problems.

The hair dryer is your friend. It accelerates drying time, and makes paint stronger, so don't skip that step.

If you don't heat set each coat of your paint really well, you run the risk of having a weak layer in your paint build scheme that can fail when you hit something hard. Been there, done that.

Mark - like your method. If don't mind sharing- brand of water borne urethane do you use for topcoat?

Thanks, Ed

[floydfire]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys Mark alot of the stuff your saying I'm doing I do heat set the the paints I do agree that I may be over thinning the paint I really dont know what type paint I have several different types createx, folk art, and someother type not sure the name.I've not had any problems up until yesterday until now thats why it so confusing to me. My E-tex seems to go on thick and 3 coats seems like it would be way to much but I'll try it do you sand between coats?.

[Vodkaman]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys Mark alot of the stuff your saying I'm doing I do heat set the the paints I do agree that I may be over thinning the paint I really dont know what type paint I have several different types createx, folk art, and someother type not sure the name.I've not had any problems up until yesterday until now thats why it so confusing to me. My E-tex seems to go on thick and 3 coats seems like it would be way to much but I'll try it do you sand between coats?.

Sounds like something could be wrong with your etex. From what I have read, etex is fairly thin.

Dave