Lureworks Plastisol

[Vodkaman]

Microwaves penetrate to different depths for different materials. As I understand it, the deeper the waves can penetrate, the less heating. This this link displays a table of microwave penetration values towards the bottom of the page, I think that it makes interesting reading.

Unfortunately, no information is available for plastisol, but as we have already established, each make or type of plastisol is different. The bubble problem, as suggested, of some components of the ‘soup’ heating up faster then the main body, now makes more sense, as they probably have different dielectric properties and a different penetration depth. The problem may not necessarily be a low vaporization point, but heating up much faster than the rest of the mix.

On a separate note (hijack), this table is very relevant to another recent thread on the subject of divider cup materials. I think Teflon may have a use after all. Also epoxy has an extremely high penetration number and may well make a good material for the dividers. Hijack over.

Dave

[carolinamike]

I'm not saying that several people's not having a bubble problem, I think that's well been established, but it's also been established that some people aren't having any problems. Everyone understands, or I think they do, that this is a very large company that has decided to pay attention to the hand pour folks. They've never once said that they have all the kinks worked out of everything to make it hand pour friendly, matter of fact, I don't know if they've ever posted at all. But I do think it would be more constructive and more beneficial to all the hand pour folks out there to communicate and help come up with a good hand pour product at a decent price. Let's face it, anyone can sit and talk about how a product doesn't perform the way they want it to, but it's not everyday that you have a chance to communicate direct in helping develop what you want. If you're having trouble with it, at least be a stand up person and communicate with the folks, it can really go a long way in pin pointing any problems going on with the products. After all, this forum is about helping each other, and I don't think there's anything that specifies that it's someone that advertises or is a member of the forum, especially when the end results helps everyone.

[GB GONE]

This forum is to explore products and solutions related to hand pouring though, right? Without asking if others are seeing the issue, how could we know?

I venture to say most are not hand pouring anyway so that would rule most out in the conversation unless you are taking hand injection as hand pouring. That should not be a premise.

I will email and/or call someone at Lureworks and tell them their plastisol forms microbubbles when heated in the microwave. I will await a solution after reporting.

Jim

[SHK]

I venture to say most are not hand pouring anyway so that would rule most out in the conversation unless you are taking hand injection as hand pouring. That should not be a premise.

Jim

is there a difference in the plastic? the way it is heated? the ONLY difference is how the plastic enters the mold. so why should it be different. if i heat it in a microwave to pour or inject i still heated it in a microwave.

[GB GONE]

100% True... Sorry, not what I meant but that is what I typed.

I was really responding to the comment that Spike It wants to get into the "hand pour" market now. That is a different but similar market to the hand injection market.

Heating of the plastic in the microwave is the issue. You are correct!!!!!!

I hope everyone that has/is having this same issue will take a moment to send Spike-It an email. Doubt much will occur if a single person expresses an issue.

Jim

PS Does anyone have an email to contact these folks?

[knifemaker3]

100% True... Sorry, not what I meant but that is what I typed.

I was really responding to the comment that Spike It wants to get into the "hand pour" market now. That is a different but similar market to the hand injection market.

Heating of the plastic in the microwave is the issue. You are correct!!!!!!

I hope everyone that has/is having this same issue will take a moment to send Spike-It an email. Doubt much will occur if a single person expresses an issue.

Jim

PS Does anyone have an email to contact these folks?

Jim,

They have a form you fill out on their website. They also have a phone number.

Hope this helps. I've been wanting to try their plastisol as well, just haven't yet.

[lajo1976]

Bruce McElroy

colortech@bulloch.net

I'm having the same problem with microbubbles with pourasol medium. I'll email them and notify them about the problem. I'll talked to them before ordering this plastisol and they were very helpful but haven't talked to them about the problem.

/Joakim

[Frank]

I spoke to Bruce and Don at Icast last week, very nice guys. Real easy to talk with. Now people have to understand they are more from the mass producing side of things and there products are not used like the small guys do. So your input to them will help them try and please most but not all of us. The nice thing is they actually make it so changing a product does not have to be a big ordeal, in fact they probably have a product that you might like. I know they said they have many more products that are not on there site. To get this kind of help from a company like this is like gold. They actually knew I really dont use many of there products and still did not give me the hard sell. Great company and real down to earth NICE guys. Frank

[GB GONE]

Great company and real down to earth NICE guys. Frank

I agree but I am just going back to the actual, original issue. The products (pourasol) doesn't heat in the microwave without some or a bunch of micro-bubbles.

It is difficult for me to wait on those bubbles to clear or rise, even if there are only hundreds and not thousands. That is just me though and some may be willing to wait.

Again, plastisol comes down to what you are looking for and what you expect out of the product. I use the microwave and expect the product to perform in the microwave for my use or I get a product that does. Not trying to be nasty or put down the company, people or anything, just putting info out there in case folks are considering the products for microwave use.

You may get something other than what you expected.

Jim

[Red's Baits]

I spoke to Bruce and Don at Icast last week, very nice guys. Real easy to talk with. Now people have to understand they are more from the mass producing side of things and there products are not used like the small guys do. So your input to them will help them try and please most but not all of us. The nice thing is they actually make it so changing a product does not have to be a big ordeal, in fact they probably have a product that you might like. I know they said they have many more products that are not on there site. To get this kind of help from a company like this is like gold. They actually knew I really dont use many of there products and still did not give me the hard sell. Great company and real down to earth NICE guys. Frank

Thanks Frank for getting feet wet here. Bruce told me he spoke with you at the Icast. Man I really wanted to be a the Icast. I wanted to meet everyone I deal with. I didn't want to post Bruce's name or email without speaking to him first. It wouldn't have been fair to him to be hammered without warning. This forum should be here to help us little guy's not to nit-pick. Color-Tech as you said are use to selling to the big boy's that have heated injectors and water cooled molding machines. They now starting to see a market for us as well. Bruce is great to deal with on the phone and has ton of info if you just ask him for it.

I spoke with Bruce about an issue I was having nothing to do with bubbles but with the plastic breaking. So I wanted to weed out the plastic before I went to the mold company to modify the mold ( and no I am not gonna drag them into this). I only use the injectasol and been having great luck with it. So I spoke to Bruce about trying the harder plastic, he really didn't think that was the cause. Anyway I wanted to try it just to clear my mind. Well he was right. I order the hard and he also sold me some that is harder then the hard I mean this is like a Brick. LOL So for the first test I mixed it 1/2 med 1/2 hard no real change on the breakage. Next straight up hard some what better but still same issue. Now for the extra hard buddy don't fart around when you draw up an injector of it cause it's like shooting puddy almost, you hit a bass in the head with this stuff and it will knock'em out. This stuff to me is for offshore and saltwater. All in all it is the molds thats the problem.

Sincerely,

Robert Norris

Red's Baits

[Frank]

I agree but I am just going back to the actual, original issue. The products (pourasol) doesn't heat in the microwave without some or a bunch of micro-bubbles.

It is difficult for me to wait on those bubbles to clear or rise, even if there are only hundreds and not thousands. That is just me though and some may be willing to wait.

Again, plastisol comes down to what you are looking for and what you expect out of the product. I use the microwave and expect the product to perform in the microwave for my use or I get a product that does. Not trying to be nasty or put down the company, people or anything, just putting info out there in case folks are considering the products for microwave use.

You may get something other than what you expected.

Jim

I am not defending them, but I trully believe they dont know exactly how we heat up the plastic. We all know that we heat in a micro but they dont, they use heat exchangers. Which cycles plastic through every other shot. I spoke with them before about a machine that I could use for more of a production enviroment. They said they were coming out with a new one at I cast, the reason I went in the first place. Now when I saw the machine and found out it cycles about every two minutes it was not for me at that point I realized they were not in tune with what we all are doing. Not a bad thing they just did not realize the numbers we can produce. So educating them is the best bet. Frank

[GB GONE]

10-4 Frank. Not trying to nit-pick them either Red. If I was a guy just going to make some baits and I bought some plastic to cook and it bubbled all up when I cooked it in my microwave, I'd be pissed and feel like I got ripped off. I might give up. How do you know not to use the stuff certain ways if there isn't info out there on the products? Its not nit-picking, it is facts on the ground of what happens.

I heat my current plastisol for 1:30 to 2 minutes. They just need to get a microwave and test their stuff. They will see what we are seeing.

Hard to put a product out their prior to testing it the way people might or will be using it I think. If I wanted to get into the saltwater market, I would test baits, colors, etc prior to approaching any customers. I just see it happenning backwards. Just me though....

All that said, I have soft, medium and hard LureWorks plastisol in my shop. 5 gallons of each...

Jim

[GB GONE]

I didn't want to post Bruce's name or email without speaking to him first. It wouldn't have been fair to him to be hammered without warning.

This isn't to hammer anyone, just to give unbiased, factual information on the products performance when I use it. Others can give their findings if they want.

Mind you, I only have Pourasol, not any of the other types. I wanted the hand pour stuff for testing and potential use. Others may be using the Injectasol or other stuff and so my observations would not apply.

Jim

[powerworm]

i really dont know if anyone will ever be able to make a plastisol that is compatible with every wattage power of microwave. i am curious though if anyone that is having problems with microwave bubbles has tried using a pan and a hotplate like when handpouring started?

[GB GONE]

There is a plastisol available that works with microwave wattages that you can currently buy. It was tested on them to be sure. LC works as well. I have used M-F in several different microwaves without issue as well. Last plastisol I tested was built on the premise that it had to perform in the microwave first as the other slow heat methods are easy on the plastisols. They just looked at it a little different. Like Frank said, they may need more knowledge on what hand pouring is about. Hand injection also..

I could use pans and a hotplate but that is not how I like to hand pour. Why should I switch my method? Just like with hand injection, the multiple options allow each person to use what they feel comfortable using. Hand pour is no different. Plus, if you have many pyrex cups and a good microwave, what is the motivation to get rid of that stuff and buy the pans and hot plate? I think there are still some doing the pan and hot plate method but not many. Microwave and pyrex is simpler with less chance of burning plastisol, especially if you are new.

I feel like as long as the heat source is slow, the microbubbles would not be an issue on the hotplate.

Jim

[Red's Baits]

i really dont know if anyone will ever be able to make a plastisol that is compatible with every wattage power of microwave. i am curious though if anyone that is having problems with microwave bubbles has tried using a pan and a hotplate like when handpouring started?

Dog gone it PW you said before I could get back home to respond as you just did.

The begining is about bubbles. I doesn't matter as you say on wattage of a microwave I think it doe's.

1. I would think if everyoe would step back and look at how the plastisol should be cured correctly.I would bet anybody a Coke that none of this plastisol on the market is intented or developed to be cured in a microwave. Maybe Lureworks is missing a stablizer in the mix.
2. A microwave is gonna create a very intense heat reaction to anything it is used on. The higher the wattage of a microwave the faster it will heat. This will not matter if it is from outside in to inside out. The chemical change/cure is greatly increased. In turn vaporizing causing bubbles. To reduce bubbles you must slow down the chemical change. This would be by reducing the out put of the microwave and stirring the plastic to even out the hot spots.

Ok I was not intending the nit-picking to be taken that why Jim. I meant that the company who has the product be given a chance by contacting them. All I am offering is information I have gotten from Brue and my chemical experience make polymers and other chemicals in lab test reactors to 15,000 galion reactors that I have been doing for 28 years.

Me saying being hammered means the phone message machine be full and his email address having a headache from being stuff full of emails.

So here is my 2 cents on the microwave deal and I am also guilty as well. We have gotten in a damn hurry and don't want to wait. So 3 minutes in a microwave is the dream and 20 minutes in a pot is a killer cause we don't have the patience to wait. Now isn't that the truth.

[GB GONE]

I hear you Red. Just seems to me if you intend to enter a market, you do a little research on the market and test your product with folks in the market and the way they are using the product. Microwaving is no secret techinque.

The CCM plastisol was formulated for the microwave exclusively I am told. Since the heating is so extreme, they thought the plastisol would work even better if a pot or whatever is used. The chemists were correct.

Like I say, a newby would give up if they got results I did as they would not know what to do. Same thing might happen with new customers if they don't change formula or just recommend microwave is not best choice for heating.

Another finding is that if you use a larger amount in the microwave, you get less microbubbles per volume. I heated up a 4 cup amount, in a similar fashion to the way I heat a 1 cup deal, and was surprised to not see a tremondous amount of microbubbles. So volume in the microwave may eliminate some of this issue...

Jim

[Red's Baits]

I agree with you Jim companies should have field testers. Just like you and I have field testers and I have guy's I sponsor that give me feed back.

So in theory heating larger amounts of plastic is same as reducing the power of your microwave. Maybe Lureworks will make some changes and create microwave version. That may be the price differance on the plastic.

[WTRbaits]

I was wondering if anyone has tried the Lureworks Ultrasol.I believe it's supposed to be superior to the Pourasol.

[bluegrasslover]

I'm using their medium and haven't noticed any bubbles. I heat up in a microwave. I have gotten bubbles with LC 536 after having to shake it for 5 minutes to get it all mixed up (get the sludge off the bottom and mixed in). I do usually run the microwave at 1/2 power so maybe that's the key.

Edited July 20, 2011 by bluegrasslover

[GB GONE]

I do usually run the microwave at 1/2 power so maybe that's the key.

What is 1/2 power??? Wattage...

Jim

[Smellycat]

Are thier new plastisols "green"?

[Red's Baits]

Are thier new plastisols "green"?

It's not or they would be posting it.

Jim, Your bringing out another point 1/2 power. Most likely everyones microwave has different power / wattage out levels.

Half power would mean that your microwave is sending out energy half the time that is timed to cook for, unless you are using a newer microwave that has the new inverter power system that actually puts out the power all the time. This new type inverter was developed by Panisonic. It lowers the out put instead of blasting full power in timed events. This is really some cool stuff they came out with, I learned about it when I was shopping for a new microwave awhile back. I think Panisonic is the only one offering it since they have the rights to it. I can tell you it works really nice.

[GB GONE]

I have a GE and can adjust my power. I think if mine is 1150 watts and his is 800 watts, we will still be heating differently so that is why I asked the wattage. My 1150 watt unit will heat at shorter times than the older 800 watt I have. Almost a full 30 seconds. That 800 watt one doesn't adjust power though....

Jim

[carolinamike]

First off, let's get this straight, this post was started only to say that Lureworks offered more variety of plastisol than what's normally been available. It was not started to discuss the good or bad of it, but of course that's what this forum is all about. But there's also been a lot of unfairness on this one too. Jim, we all get it, you have a bubbling problem and you don't particularly don't like this plastisol, but you did reorder and you've talked very little about the plastisol that you reordered. You also made the comment that you didn't feel that your input would do much good, when I know for a fact before your last plastisol was sent out, it was burned in the microwave trying to make it bubble. So it looks like to me that individual feedback has already helped you. You've had very little, almost nothing to say about this. And you've also went through the trouble to be sure to name other companies that people already knew were out there, and the new company that you started the post on. But mainly, what bothers me about this Jim, is you keep saying you're not bashing this company, but if you'll read back over the 11 pages of this thread, about all of yours have been negative. If you've sold worms to someone and they weren't satisfied with them, would you want them to contact you directly or would you want them to post it on the forum and say that well I will try to contact him but it would probably do no good? I've always thought of you as a fair person, there's been times that people have come on TU and bad mouthed mold makers and others and you've always been one of the first people to chime in and say that they should contact the person direct and not post it on the forum. And you yourself keeps repeating over and over how new these guys are to the business. I've watched Bear and others come into this business new and get it from other people but the way this one's went it sure has surprised me. These are super hard working folks. Guys they're not in the business to cheat anybody. And if it hadn't been for Bruce's infinite knowledge, I would probably already be out of business. Your feedback is very important to these guys no matter what anyone else says, and they are working on their micorwave issue. But again there are people that aren't having issues, so there is something different going on. I mean how does someone have a chance to stand behind their product when you won't even talk to them personally about the issue? I mean sure this plastisol may not be for everyone, but I don't know any plastisol out there that everybody on this forum is happy with. These guys have so much to bring to the table, things that most of you could ever even think doing with plastic, an endless color list, and nothing but outstanding customer service. I mean if you don't like it, you don't like it, that's the great thing about living in America and freedom of speech is the other. There's a microwave bubble issue for some of you out there, we get it, we understand what you're saying.