jkustel Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hello all, I am nearing the production phase of a lure I've been working on for over a year now. I've used a variety of clears with various degrees of success. I am opting to go with an auto urethane like PPG and dip my baits instead of spray them. Probably two to three dips prior to final cure. I've read pretty extensively about the risks of spraying auto clear which is part my motivation for dipping them. With some good gloves and avoiding skin contact do you guys think the fumes off the lures when curing still pose a significant safety hazard in a well ventilated garage? Also, would you say Dick Nites S-81 requires all the safety precautions of auto clear to spray? Looking forward to your responses. J. Kustel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Hello all, I am nearing the production phase of a lure I've been working on for over a year now. I've used a variety of clears with various degrees of success. I am opting to go with an auto urethane like PPG and dip my baits instead of spray them. Probably two to three dips prior to final cure. I've read pretty extensively about the risks of spraying auto clear which is part my motivation for dipping them. With some good gloves and avoiding skin contact do you guys think the fumes off the lures when curing still pose a significant safety hazard in a well ventilated garage? Also, would you say Dick Nites S-81 requires all the safety precautions of auto clear to spray? Looking forward to your responses. J. Kustel No one is going to be able to answer that with any certainty. The best information available is the MSDS sheet for the product. If you are going into production, then you are coating a significant number and spending more time in the fumes. Why take the chance when the solution is so simple. Build a dipping cabinet with an extractor fan to continually pull the fumes away from you, same as a spray booth. Vent the fumes outside or you will just be circulating the problem and not removing it. I use my spray booth for applying coats of CA glue. That stuff is nasty and the spray booth solved the problem and gives me peace of mind. Good luck with the business. Dave Edited March 27, 2011 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkustel Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 No one is going to be able to answer that with any certainty. The best information available is the MSDS sheet for the product. If you are going into production, then you are coating a significant number and spending more time in the fumes. Why take the chance when the solution is so simple. Build a dipping cabinet with an extractor fan to continually pull the fumes away from you, same as a spray booth. Vent the fumes outside or you will just be circulating the problem and not removing it. I use my spray booth for applying coats of CA glue. That stuff is nasty and the spray booth solved the problem and gives me peace of mind. Good luck with the business. Dave I do plan on making a spray booth for certain that vents to the outside. I would imagine IF one were spraying that you would still require a respirator or can you get the flow from the exhaust fans efficient enough to eliminate much of the risk of inhalation? I know my questions are rather tedious on this old subject but I do appreciate the input from guys whom have experience using these CA based chemicals. Like you, I want all the benefits of CA's with the peace of mind that I'm taking reasonable precautions with my health. Appreciate your quick response. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I do plan on making a spray booth for certain that vents to the outside. I would imagine IF one were spraying that you would still require a respirator or can you get the flow from the exhaust fans efficient enough to eliminate much of the risk of inhalation? I know my questions are rather tedious on this old subject but I do appreciate the input from guys whom have experience using these CA based chemicals. Like you, I want all the benefits of CA's with the peace of mind that I'm taking reasonable precautions with my health. Questions of safety are never tedious. It is a question of combining the airflow of the fan (cuft/min) and the cross section of the spray booth. Obviously a smaller booth will have a higher velocity for the same fan. But a larger booth gives more elbow room to work. You can get the bast of both, by fitting a clear plastic window across the upper half, thus restricting the area, increasing the inlet flow and removing any chance of fumes escaping. With this kind of arrangement, I don't think a mask would be necessary. Build the booth and do a smoke test, to see what is happening to the fumes. It may not need a screen. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 on some apps we use auto clears. definatly vent out any smells or fumes.. best to be on the same side. unles you want a buzz and damage brain cells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Listen carefully J. You are well advised not to even open a can of auto urethane or activator without a professional organic filter equipped mask, and proper ventilation. These chemicals are DEAD serious. Just because the plan is not to spray, do not fool yourself into thinking you'll be safe. Dipping. Whatever amount you would decide to catalyze, will have a short pot life and start to change it's density as time passes. I also believe that in the latter stages it will start to string, and become unusable. So, whichever way you decide to go, please realize urethanes are extremely dangerous, both in the health aspect, and flammability issues. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Re S81. I dip baits in it (I'd say "occasionally" as a hobby builder) and hang them to dry in my garage. Obviously, the stuff contains solvent but I don't think it's anything as poisonous as auto clearcoat. If I were doing it on a production basis, I would ask Dick Nite what precautions they use in his spoon building operation - and I'd seriously consider wearing a mask rated for organic solvents. They aren't expensive. I'd choose a clearcoat based on the final product you want, then work out how to use it safely. S81 works great but it's a very thin film coating and touchy to re-dip baits in if you want multiple coats. Personally, I have no problems with its single coat durability and would not hesitate to sell single coat S81 lures, if that's what I did for a living. I've got lots of commercial factory baits that have less durable clearcoats than S81. Auto clears are made to shoot multiple coats quickly and can produce a thicker film than S81, also with very professional looking results. To a great extent, the final "look" you get with a clearcoat depends on the surface it lays on. The thinner the clearcoat, the smoother the surface must be to have that "high quality factory look". Thicker clears will level out over the surface and can hide small imperfections. So the choice really needs to be integrated into your whole bait building procedure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkustel Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Re S81. I dip baits in it (I'd say "occasionally" as a hobby builder) and hang them to dry in my garage. Obviously, the stuff contains solvent but I don't think it's anything as poisonous as auto clearcoat. If I were doing it on a production basis, I would ask Dick Nite what precautions they use in his spoon building operation - and I'd seriously consider wearing a mask rated for organic solvents. They aren't expensive. I'd choose a clearcoat based on the final product you want, then work out how to use it safely. S81 works great but it's a very thin film coating and touchy to re-dip baits in if you want multiple coats. Personally, I have no problems with its single coat durability and would not hesitate to sell single coat S81 lures, if that's what I did for a living. I've got lots of commercial factory baits that have less durable clearcoats than S81. Auto clears are made to shoot multiple coats quickly and can produce a thicker film than S81, also with very professional looking results. To a great extent, the final "look" you get with a clearcoat depends on the surface it lays on. The thinner the clearcoat, the smoother the surface must be to have that "high quality factory look". Thicker clears will level out over the surface and can hide small imperfections. So the choice really needs to be integrated into your whole bait building procedure.. Thanks for the great input guys. So many options and considerations with these dang clear coats, no wonder its probably the most discussed topic on the forum. I know epoxies give great durable finishes with probably the lowest toxicity but its so tedious to work within the relatively short pot lives. Seems like lots of mixing and disposing of containers and what not if you were trying to do a good size batch of baits. Dipping or spraying seems much more efficient time wise. I will most likely have to test a few systems for efficiency versus end product. I would love to settle on something simple like the DN original formula but I've read so much about the storage issues....some guys say they have it tamed and some guys (even great experienced bait builders) can't seem to get a handle on it so that makes me apprehensive. With good venting in a spray booth would you guys think that a good respirator with organic filter would suffice with auto clear or would I need an air fed mask to safely deal with it? Thanks again for the excellent input. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VANNDALIZER Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I spray automotive polyurathane top coat. I have a paint booth that vents to the outside of the building and I also wear a mask. So far I havent had any problems with fumes or getting sick. I would be more worried about getting the thinner or solvents on my skin than I would breathing the fumes. When in dout use extra precautions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I also use auto clear and researched it extensively... On an airbrushing forum frequent I read a post awhile back that stated the flash off after the part has been sprayed and is drying is just as harmful for you as the actual spraying. His theory was that while you have the particles in the air while spraying the actual vapors while it dried was just as if not more harmful to you. He stated always wear a mask in the room where they are drying or let dry outside. I spray my water based paints in my garage but I will not spray auto clear. I either wait for a nice day and do it outside or I use a different clear if the weather is bad and I don’t want to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
