Marks Lures Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hello All I am trying to figure out how much to charge for a bag of soft plastic baits. Don't want to undercut some guy scraping out a living. What I am having a problem with is: If you only have single cavity injector molds and one injector, how many lures can be poured in an hour? I have a rough guess: After I have everything out. To heat, mix colors pour etc. I am thinking maybe 40 soft plastic lures from single cavity injection molds. Am I in the ball park, or out to lunch? Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassgeek Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 of course size of bait and quantity come into play. i see a lot of the little guys at shows selling for about $5 a bag. they have a little overhead w/ show fees and such. maybe $4 before shipping. there's my $.02 btw, got pics of what you are doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Lures Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 of course size of bait and quantity come into play. i see a lot of the little guys at shows selling for about $5 a bag. they have a little overhead w/ show fees and such. maybe $4 before shipping. there's my $.02 btw, got pics of what you are doing? No pictures yet, ended up with a couple of broken ribs last week that have set me back. Oh wait I do have a picture of what I am working on. Well, I love making lures, but even a hobby I don't want to loose money on the lures (over-all no problem can never have enough molds) So I figure being slow and inefficient I still want to make $10.00 per hour, (so I can buy more stuff of course) See if I can upload or attach or something with this picture now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bribass Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 No pictures yet, ended up with a couple of broken ribs last week that have set me back. Oh wait I do have a picture of what I am working on. Well, I love making lures, but even a hobby I don't want to loose money on the lures (over-all no problem can never have enough molds) So I figure being slow and inefficient I still want to make $10.00 per hour, (so I can buy more stuff of course) See if I can upload or attach or something with this picture now. $10.00 PROFIT or just $10.00 an hr hour in revenue? Ive have been working on these numbers alot lately and its quite the investment to be efficient and timely. Especially if your talking about a one man show. With me and my buddy we can do 80 frogs in an hour with 10 molds and 2 pots. ---- thats just making them once the plastic is cooked and colored keep in mind. The number changes based on the molds the baits etc. For example we can do WAY more than 80 finesse worms, get the idea? But who know maybe im just slow as a slug! I would love for some guys who do this as a business to chime in cause i know they got the numbers together of how efficient they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassgeek Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 broken ribs are no fun. i'm just looking at getting into the hobby and trying to figure out if i can break even or use it to support my fishing habit. probably going to startout just trading. nice little chart you have, might have to steal it if i do start pouring plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Broken ribs, ouch. Been there and done that. What you have to do is figure out what each lure costs you. Do up a 4 oz recipie and see how many baits you get. Figure out what the recipie costs you and divide the number of baits. That will give you the gross cost. Then you have to figure out what the electrcity and other overhead costs total and add that into the mix. Don't worry so much about how much profit you can make in an hour. There are too many vairables involved with that. (mistakes in recipies, mispours, interuptions, etc) If you are looking to save money on your own baits and pay for your materials that is very possible to do. Do not short change yourself on what you charge for the baits you sell. Give out a few baits as samples and this will get you some customers especially if they catch fish with them. www.novalures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerworm Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 with 1 single cavity mold if your not making over 60 an hour your losing out. 1 a minute is done most easily of course as your mold heats up you have to be careful when you demold as the plastic inside the baits hasnt quite setup yet. my wife and i can and do regularly over 750 baits an hour with 24 crazcraw molds. its not the injecting part that takes time its the demolding. when we are making senkos being mulyi cavity molds our best production run was over 1200 5" senkos out of 6 molds in an hour and 15 minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basscandy92040 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 No pictures yet, ended up with a couple of broken ribs last week that have set me back. Oh wait I do have a picture of what I am working on. Well, I love making lures, but even a hobby I don't want to loose money on the lures (over-all no problem can never have enough molds) So I figure being slow and inefficient I still want to make $10.00 per hour, (so I can buy more stuff of course) See if I can upload or attach or something with this picture now. I like how you broke it down... I have done the same thing on my end...I have two local shops here in San Diego that carry my stuff...One more than the other...retail is the way to go...I push most of my stuff wholesale to the shops....I dont make that much...I double my cost and maybe a tad more depending on the baits... Ex. 1 bag of 6" straight tail worms 8 pack....2.25, 8x4 Laminated bag .13, glossy label .03, cost per worm about .04 to .05 each...so cost for me is around .80 ish... I hand pour my worms with RTV molds, 3 cavities each, I think I have 6 molds....I can get about 100 worms, in an hour...that includes some 9" fathead straight tail 2 cavity molds also... they retail here for 3.99.. I just did some sticks too.. very new to injection....I have two of Dels 5.25 stick molds, 4 cav each...I think I figured an 8 pack was about 1.12 cost for me...I wholesaled them for 3 bux.... You can save $$$$ on your packaging....right off the bat..I bought 1000 lam bags from Johnson bag co....with shipping it was around .14 a bag depending on what size...and the labels I get 2x4 shipping label in semi gloss from Uline for around 30 bux for a 1000.... Try ebay its the best way to get your stuff out there and the cheapest... Here is a pic of my packaging... I hope this helps...Kinda long, sorry about that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basscandy92040 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 with 1 single cavity mold if your not making over 60 an hour your losing out. 1 a minute is done most easily of course as your mold heats up you have to be careful when you demold as the plastic inside the baits hasnt quite setup yet. my wife and i can and do regularly over 750 baits an hour with 24 crazcraw molds. its not the injecting part that takes time its the demolding. when we are making senkos being mulyi cavity molds our best production run was over 1200 5" senkos out of 6 molds in an hour and 15 minute WOW...how cavities are the molds for the senkos? Injection or hand pour...Thats some crazy numbers for husband and wife...Where do you guys sell your stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Lures Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 $10.00 PROFIT or just $10.00 an hr hour in revenue? Ive have been working on these numbers alot lately and its quite the investment to be efficient and timely. Especially if your talking about a one man show. With me and my buddy we can do 80 frogs in an hour with 10 molds and 2 pots. ---- thats just making them once the plastic is cooked and colored keep in mind. The number changes based on the molds the baits etc. For example we can do WAY more than 80 finesse worms, get the idea? But who know maybe im just slow as a slug! I would love for some guys who do this as a business to chime in cause i know they got the numbers together of how efficient they are. Just $10.00 an hour. If you and your buddy can do 80 frogs, and I figure I can make 40 single Cavity, I was not too far off with my estimate, Way more finesse worms, probabably means that they make more than one lure per pour Thanks that was helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Lures Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 broken ribs are no fun. i'm just looking at getting into the hobby and trying to figure out if i can break even or use it to support my fishing habit. probably going to startout just trading. nice little chart you have, might have to steal it if i do start pouring plastics. That is why I posted it. The cost of the plastic was not in the chart, you will need to figure out how many you can make from a quart, divide that into the cost of the quart, add a little for shipping. and that will give you an idea how much cost in plastic you have per lure. Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerworm Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 6 molds 30 cavities. we keep them clamped to gether in groups of 2 with a downdraft fan underneath them to keep going out of an old jenn-air stove top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 If you only have single cavity injector molds and one injector, how many lures can be poured in an hour? Real answer is ZERO. You can't POUR any baits with a single injector mold and an injector... JK.... Keep doing the numbers and also remeber the 10% tax you will pay as well. When you finish, add on another 5% for expenses as everyone goes way to conservative on their numbers and doesn't figure the rising costs of supplies, power etc for that year they are calculating. Also remember, you can do way more finesse worms but you also have to put more in a bag and you have to charge less for those than a frog. Bottom line will be less profit for that type of bait. I like the pic of the Rage Craw for whomever posted it. Hope you don't get caught selling those as Strike King will immediately send you a cease and desist or take you to court. Simple case of patent infringement on their bait. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mradamh Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I like the pic of the Rage Craw for whomever posted it. Hope you don't get caught selling those as Strike King will immediately send you a cease and desist or take you to court. Simple case of patent infringement on their bait. Jim Indeed, I have a bunch of those molds for that Strike King Rage Craw. They don't make the molds anymore, and neither do I. I got the letter almost immediately after posting a pic of them. They watch here, and on other forums as well. Proceed with caution...your best bet is to stop immediately. They'll shut you down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Indeed, I have a bunch of those molds for that Strike King Rage Craw. They don't make the molds anymore, and neither do I. I got the letter almost immediately after posting a pic of them. They watch here, and on other forums as well. Proceed with caution...your best bet is to stop immediately. They'll shut you down. Many others have too Adam. The picture posted her will incur a letter for sure. Hopefully that is all. Strike King and others have the right to protect what they brought to market. This comes back to the point of the $$$. Be sure you are injecting/pouring a bait that is not infringing on another bait. Easiest route will be that you stop pouring the bait that is infringing but now you have the time invested, marketing, mold cost etc and cannot recoup those costs. Worst case is that the company decides to make an example out of you and takes you to court. Hello banckruptcy, unless you have a few hundred thousand stacked up for your losing defense. Also adds another point/cost. These "big" companies spend untold monies on marketing. You will have costs in that area for sure. In fact, marketing is probably the area I see that most fall flat with. They have good stuff and nobody knows. Gotta spend to make. Flip side is true as well. A good marketing plan can make a mediocre (sp) bait/product a BIG winner. Happens all the time. Can you say Rocket Fishing pole???? LOL!!! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Many others have too Adam. The picture posted her will incur a letter for sure. Hopefully that is all. Strike King and others have the right to protect what they brought to market. This comes back to the point of the $$. Be sure you are injecting/pouring a bait that is not infringing on another bait. Easiest route will be that you stop pouring the bait that is infringing but now you have the time invested, marketing, mold cost etc and cannot recoup those costs. Worst case is that the company decides to make an example out of you and takes you to court. Hello banckruptcy, unless you have a few hundred thousand stacked up for your losing defense. Also adds another point/cost. These "big" companies spend untold monies on marketing. You will have costs in that area for sure. In fact, marketing is probably the area I see that most fall flat with. They have good stuff and nobody knows. Gotta spend to make. Flip side is true as well. A good marketing plan can make a mediocre (sp) bait/product a BIG winner. Happens all the time. Can you say Rocket Fishing pole???? LOL!!! Jim A good marketing tool is having original baits to sell, that no one else has and catch fish of course. But that requires imagination and a lot of work developing and testing the lure. But on the up side, it is really not that difficult to do, far more rewarding than marketing yet another senko and you do not have to worry about patent infringement. I am in the process of modelling up a bunch of baits for another TU member. At least two of them are in a machine shop as I type. All original designs, modelled from rough sketches. If you thought catching a fish on your own hand pour was cool, imagine other folks catching fish on baits that you designed and paying you for the privilage, now that is way beyond cool. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 A good marketing tool is having original baits to sell, that no one else has and catch fish of course. But that requires imagination and a lot of work developing and testing the lure. But on the up side, it is really not that difficult to do, far more rewarding than marketing yet another senko and you do not have to worry about patent infringement. I am in the process of modelling up a bunch of baits for another TU member. At least two of them are in a machine shop as I type. All original designs, modelled from rough sketches. If you thought catching a fish on your own hand pour was cool, imagine other folks catching fish on baits that you designed and paying you for the privilage, now that is way beyond cool. Dave Exactly the reason I do what I do Dave. I've worked hard for what I have and I will not give it all up to some big company with no heart or consience. www.novalures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadfrog Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I do all kinds of lures . I don't sell as a business . But I did once upon a time . I barter a lot these days. But I can tell you I've crunched numbers a lot over the years . Don't forget to add in start up cost for molds ect. you have to reccoop that before and after each investment. To actually make money at a competitive price long story short . 500 baits a minute will get you there . Molds and injection equipment that can do that will have a initial investment of around 250,000 thousand dollars depending on the lure . Sometimes less. This figure takes into account every concieveable expense right down to the spit on the back of a stamp. Remember that a business Is something you start and like to do . But it must stand alone as its own entity. Pay yourself first . you need a percentage for you and a percentage the business can use for investment. Sorry for rambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Also remember this, there are significant tax advantages to having your own business. You can deduct many expenses. Many only look at the expense side and forget this side of things. This can be part of the overall plan if you are looking at going into business as it will reduce your tax burden which helps the bottom line. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadfrog Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Also remember this, there are significant tax advantages to having your own business. You can deduct many expenses. Many only look at the expense side and forget this side of things. This can be part of the overall plan if you are looking at going into business as it will reduce your tax burden which helps the bottom line. Jim Amen brother old timers is setting in forgot about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bribass Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 with 1 single cavity mold if your not making over 60 an hour your losing out. 1 a minute is done most easily of course as your mold heats up you have to be careful when you demold as the plastic inside the baits hasnt quite setup yet. my wife and i can and do regularly over 750 baits an hour with 24 crazcraw molds. its not the injecting part that takes time its the demolding. when we are making senkos being mulyi cavity molds our best production run was over 1200 5" senkos out of 6 molds in an hour and 15 minute WOW PW, that is amazing! I got 10 Crazycraw molds currently and 2 pots and also 10 frog molds... my other baits im currently working on getting more up there in molds. Would you mind sharing exactly how you produce such numbers? The process and such. I think it would be a huge help for many of us. if not would you pm me here or on bears? Im guessing your using large injectors. Currently Im using 2 Mediums so that might be a difference. How much can you put in bears pot? I can only seem to get a MAX of 7 cups in before it goes over the paddles. This leads me to my next question, how far off the bottom do you have the paddles? I have them as close to the bottom as possible. Sorry to bombard everyone with these questions but i feel this will help with the original question in the thread. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basscandy92040 Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Indeed, I have a bunch of those molds for that Strike King Rage Craw. They don't make the molds anymore, and neither do I. I got the letter almost immediately after posting a pic of them. They watch here, and on other forums as well. Proceed with caution...your best bet is to stop immediately. They'll shut you down. Adam, You told be about that mold a long time ago....Also thank you for tips on the Chub E's....I only posted that pic for the guy and his spreadsheet comment...I dont sell them anymore....That pic is almost 2 yrs old....I only have 5 of those molds too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basscandy92040 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 6 molds 30 cavities. we keep them clamped to gether in groups of 2 with a downdraft fan underneath them to keep going out of an old jenn-air stove top 30 cavites total? or 30 cavities per mold? either way thats great... and you can do 1200 in an hour? That is fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-Boys Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 with 1 single cavity mold if your not making over 60 an hour your losing out. 1 a minute is done most easily of course as your mold heats up you have to be careful when you demold as the plastic inside the baits hasnt quite setup yet. my wife and i can and do regularly over 750 baits an hour with 24 crazcraw molds. its not the injecting part that takes time its the demolding. when we are making senkos being mulyi cavity molds our best production run was over 1200 5" senkos out of 6 molds in an hour and 15 minute wow, I need to see you guys in action on video !!!! thats a ton of baits !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerworm Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 it is really simple have enough equipment to do the job. i remember when we started with handpour stick molds and we had 3 times the cavities versus what we have now in injectable molds and we blow them away from a production stand point. i borrowed 4 senko molds a year ago for a week from a buddy in MO to go along with my 6 and can do right at 900 by myself you just have to have the room to lay them all out as you go and frsh plastic coming up to temp and yes large injectors will cut down on how many times you haVE TO GO TO THE POT TO REFILL!1 oops caps lock GRRRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
