Frank Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Here is a few pics of how to use blending blocks to achieve real custom work. I does help if you are an octopus. Two color Three color Four color Dont see how some can do it with injectors that are not together. But maybe someone will show us how they do it. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerworm Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 thats exactly what i was talking about in another recent post here. with those blending blocks and injectors like they are 4 colors is definitely possible i have done it for limited runs but ass most fishermen know what they want already but most prefer a flake tweak than awhole other color Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) Yeah my point ws that it could be done but is it really something you are going to do everyday and are you going to do it without getting burned or a blending block dropped on your foot. Moving from mold to mold is a bugger!!!!! Also, repeating the bait reliably is tough. I can see getting a few off this way but run 500-1000 and see what kind of four letter words you have. A 3 channel block with a center injector of a small bore would be a nice addition as that could be the "vein" color and if made to inject at the same time but made of a smaller bore, the vein size would be small compared to the outside colors.... Kevin???? Jim Edited April 28, 2011 by ghostbaits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Also, you would face the issue of how to get plastic into the injectors if they are so close together. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'd like to see the baits as well. The 2 and 3 would be laminates, but the 4 would be quadrents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Lures Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Also, you would face the issue of how to get plastic into the injectors if they are so close together. Jim Jim About my last post where I rambled on and timed out. A 3 color injection is possible with smaller injectors (like I mentioned a re-design) would have to work around a heating system or pot system. etc. Really any more than 3 (in my opinion) it is art, but a waist of time. the fish looks, hmmmm food ,,,, hmmm eat food,,, "wait not 4 colors, it is not good food" I will tell you every idea I have to make pretty lures to sell to a fisherman, you could make 20 color injector, one or two colors will work Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Might not work with Presto Pots, but maybe with pyrex or if you prefer more consistency in heat, fondue pots. Remember I asked about smaller diameter taller pots a while back? This was one of those thoughts that was going through my head at the time. I have had some heat bands for a while now to experiment with using my own home made aluminum pots (made from aluminum tube) The hold off for me has been heat controllers. I just got a couple shipped in from China to play with that came with thermo couples in the right heat range. Good heat controllers are freaking expensive. Now to chase down some aluminum tube in the right sizes, and spend some time on the mini lathe. Here is a link to a site which shows what materials are available and it will sell by the metre: http://www.metals4u.co.uk/products.asp?cat_id=22 Consider stainless steel tubes too. They have better heat retention than aluminium, they can be arc welded: http://www.brazing.com/techguide/procedures/stainless.asp And is roughly the same price as the aluminium tube. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbrinlee Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Here is a link to a site which shows what materials are available and it will sell by the metre: http://www.metals4u....s.asp?cat_id=22 Consider stainless steel tubes too. They have better heat retention than aluminium, they can be arc welded: http://www.brazing.c...s/stainless.asp And is roughly the same price as the aluminium tube. Dave http://www.onlinemetals.com/ Is a internet vendor I use for hobby work... Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted April 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 One note on the three color version it does not comeout equal the single side is 50% the other two share the second half. I believe you have to sell it to the fisherman first or it will never get in the water. New baits are like that too, if you come out with a bait and try and market it some times does not come out so good but let the big guys do the same and see the differance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 One note on the three color version it does not comeout equal the single side is 50% the other two share the second half. I believe you have to sell it to the fisherman first or it will never get in the water. New baits are like that too, if you come out with a bait and try and market it some times does not come out so good but let the big guys do the same and see the differance. As I expected Frank. I have several easy solutions to the issue right now rather than stacking blending block on blending block. Still time consuming but less moving parts. My other brain (10 yr old son) looked at it months ago and told me how to do it. I am working on it in resin now and then will move to aluminum with any success. Then to mold maker for all to use.... Just can't shake loose from all the orders to get any playing around. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted April 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 As I expected Frank. I have several easy solutions to the issue right now rather than stacking blending block on blending block. Still time consuming but less moving parts. My other brain (10 yr old son) looked at it months ago and told me how to do it. I am working on it in resin now and then will move to aluminum with any success. Then to mold maker for all to use.... Just can't shake loose from all the orders to get any playing around. Jim I am in the same boat with work no time to play. Honestly though Kevin is working on one but he is busy too so dont know how it is going. Since I posted this I have had a few ideas go through my head but no time to work on it. I was going to post this on the other thread nut did not want to high jack it. Posting the pics like this just gets peoples minds going and maybe some great idea will come of it. I remember when the blending block was looked at as a waste of time and to many parts and it wont work. Now that that is settled a year later it seem to be the standard. I remember when you asked me a few questions on how I use it, now you got it and it is just another tool in your tool box of tricks to make customers happy. I have to admit I use two colors 80% of the time 3 and 4 would be probably less than 10% of the time but still having the ability to do it is good. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I am in the same boat with work no time to play. Honestly though Kevin is working on one but he is busy too so dont know how it is going. Since I posted this I have had a few ideas go through my head but no time to work on it. I was going to post this on the other thread nut did not want to high jack it. Posting the pics like this just gets peoples minds going and maybe some great idea will come of it. I remember when the blending block was looked at as a waste of time and to many parts and it wont work. Now that that is settled a year later it seem to be the standard. I remember when you asked me a few questions on how I use it, now you got it and it is just another tool in your tool box of tricks to make customers happy. I have to admit I use two colors 80% of the time 3 and 4 would be probably less than 10% of the time but still having the ability to do it is good. Frank I have a blending block design in my head, that will do 2,3 or 4. It can color the four quadrants or four inline. It is three plates. It is possible with two plates, but if you go to the three color option, you will get the same imbalance as with two blending blocks. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Keep in mind that whatever comes out will have to be able to do just 2 colors, with the option of 3 or 4. Otherwise, it will not sell in my opinion. I am like minded with Frank on this. 80-90% of the baits I make with injection are 2 color laminates with 5% 3 colors and 5% single colors. 3 colors are starting to advance now though. The market may not support the time it takes to make the product. I am going about it in a completely different manner. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 This is my solution to the multi blender block and I offer it up for discussion. The middle plate can be flipped. This offers a choice of ‘4 corner coloring or ‘in-line’ coloring. I have shown both configurations. The top plate has a grub screw, which can be screwed down, to block one of the channels, thus reducing to 3 color blender, with the same flip option. The middle plate can be omitted, reducing to a 2 color blender. When in 3 color mode, because the separate colors do not mix until they reach the nozzle, all the colors should be even. I guess if you wanted a thinner centre color, you could design in an optional restrictor insert. Colors - inline configuration Colors – corner configuration This may or may not solve the problem, but it is a first draft starting point. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Lures Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 This is like really so cool. You guys should work on world hunger,,,, a few simple comments takes on a life of its own.... Really I like the idea, but who is going to buy a 4 color bait besides us to figure out how it is done. For fishing I will settle for two colors because fish are stupid and would not bite if they had to decide on 4 different colors versus just... (bass or fish) WOW TWO FOR THE BITE OF ONE bass or fish talking about the color. Okay, we can now solve world hunger.... How can I dual inject a frog (Mr. CC Croaker) and make it a hollow belly???? --- brain teaser I wil post when I finish it... From world hunger to empty belly.... Best Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 This subject is not new it is just public now. As soon as the Twinjector was built I was planning a 3 color one. This is a learnig forum and if this is as good as it gets then just quit trying. I never will believe that so I will go on and keep trying. World hunger that is a differant forum and I am not a member. Mark you want a hollow frog ,that has been done but then not on the mold you have. Or maybe it has. That is a differant subject too. I posted this here so I did not highjack the other post. Vodkaman love the idea and the work you put into it. That is not what was in my mind but it looks great and the concept of one block with three ways to use it. Fresh ideas are what makes this forum tick. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Lures Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Frank A hollow frog has been done, I saw the one with a roto cast, do you have the link for the dual injector hollow frog? A straight shot hollow frog without the rotation? It would be much appreciated Thank you Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Just needs a mandrel. No big deal. Just time to make it. Now that did not take long to air that one out. Time is money so it may take some of that too. Sometime you dont want to post everything,never know who is looking. Some people have good ideas that are taken from them by people who dont have there own. When the time is right I am sure it will be posted. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I too am not overly convinced by the restrictor idea. Even if it did work and reduce the flow, it would cause an issue at the injector handle. What ever is used to push the handles down, the flow has to be even or will be forced to be even. I have not addressed the problem of holding the injectors or pushing down the handles, but I am not anticipating much of a design problem here. Certainly you would not have to disturb your neighbour. I don't see 3 or 4 color injection as being much more difficult than 2 color injection, other than filling and cleaning. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that there may be a need for some kind of power assist at the plunger plate, possibly like the RTV tube guns, a ratchet arrangement. Four colors would be roughly twice the hand pressure, but I don't inject, so I do not know the pressures involved or required. Laid or layered colors, like you explained, was what I was going for with this solution. It also offers the four corner option by flipping the middle plate. I cannot see a solution for layered colors with a two plate arrangement. In layered mode, all four colors are aligned in my solution. The top two colors join and move down into the nozzle, were they are joined by the bottom two colors, which form the back and belly colors. I don't see how you can do 3 or 4 colors inline with two plates without mixing further away from the nozzle, this allows more opportunity for the blending of the said two colors, also, the premixed colors will be aligned wrong (side by side) and not allow the layering to occur, resulting in a 'four corner' distribution. I guess that it is still possible, by cutting one path in the top plate and the second color in the bottom plate, but I was not convinced because of the two 90 degree corners that the plastic would have to navigate before leaving the nozzle. With the two plate, 3 color arrangement, the single color will have twice the volume of the twin color tube, making uneaven color dirstribution, something else that I was trying to avoid. I have made all four fluid paths the same length, but like you said, this should not be important. I did not consider this, but I agree with your thinking, that it is the cross sectional area that matters, not the length. To step down to three colors, I went for a large grub type screw, purely so that the part remained in the block and not something that can get lost. There are other solutions, but I thought this was the simplest. Funny you should mention the swirl jig. I worked on a design for such, several months ago, maybe a year. I shelved it, as I could not see the pourers going for it, as it would be more expensive than the blending block. I don't think I even finished the design, so you beat me to it. I have put a lot of thought into this blend block, as it has been on my mind for quite some time, not just the duration of this post or indeed, the post on the 'other' site. When people introduce a 2 color option, I automatically start thinking about more. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Lures Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I think a plate (if injectors arranged in quadrants) with a handle/knob in the middle or a bar (if aligned in line) would be adequate for binding the push rods together. The only real increase in force due to additional injectors will be due to friction in my opinion. Other than that I think the force used relative to volume of plastic spit out will remain fairly constant. Less movement obviously for the same amount of plastic, but more force due to friction of o-rings, push rod passage, etc. The one place it might make a siginificant difference is in the "feel" when the mold is full. I think it might be harder to "feel" when the mold is full. Bob Think the biggest issue would be... if it is a four color rigid injector without a real even push it would lock up. Probably would be easier with 4 pressure pots, working as one, same air pressure for injection. Will keep thinking the best way to do it by hand. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...