Gelatin Watermelon Metalflake Worm

[tbrinlee]

Recipe:

Watermelon Color: 1 drop red, 2 drops green, 2 drops yellow - Kroger food coloring

Glitter - Silver - Tree House Studio Spangles - Hobby Lobby

Worm - 6oz Glycerin, 12 leafs gelatin, 1/2 tsp Xanthan Gum

Again... the Xanthan gum was key to holding the flakes in suspension.

Tony

[Vodkaman]

They look the biznizz. Let me know how well they stay on the hook compared to normal lure plastisol, in a fishing enviroment.

Dave

[rockslide]

yes how well do they hold on the hook is a good question

[tbrinlee]

yes how well do they hold on the hook is a good question

I'll be taking a few out this evening or in the morning for a test. If they work similar to those that we did at the meeting they should be fine.

Tony

[tbrinlee]

They look the biznizz. Let me know how well they stay on the hook compared to normal lure plastisol, in a fishing enviroment.

Dave

Vodkanam;

I am curios to know if you allowed your gelatin baits to cure a full 24 yours before testing? They seem to continue to cure for a day or two if you leave them out in the air.

Just curious...

Tony

[Vodkaman]

I had some baits in the fridge since I made them last week. They had stiffened up, as you suggested. After reading your post, I put a gelatin and an agar in a jug of water. I intended to give them an hour, but fell asleep, so they got over 2 hours.

The agar remained stiff and snapped when I tested it for flex.

The gelatin became extremely floppy, one stage away from liquid. Part of the tail had dissolved and the rest of the thinner section fell apart very easily.

I repeated the water test with a gelatin bait, this time monitoring progress. After three minutes, the bait achieved a workable flexibility and maintained strength. After ten minutes, the paddle tail was extremely mobile, yet strength was still holding and the bait usable. After fifteen minutes, a tear developed in the tail web and the bait failed with minimum handling.

This was a static test with the bait resting in a bowl of water. I am sure under swimming conditions, the bait would fail sooner. I am sure for worm baits and other fairly static baits, the material would work, but for an active bait like a paddletail swimmer, the gelatin material was inadequate.

Something is required to stop or slow down the rehydration of the bait, in order to keep its strength.

Dave

[tbrinlee]

I had some baits in the fridge since I made them last week. They had stiffened up, as you suggested. After reading your post, I put a gelatin and an agar in a jug of water. I intended to give them an hour, but fell asleep, so they got over 2 hours.

The agar remained stiff and snapped when I tested it for flex.

The gelatin became extremely floppy, one stage away from liquid. Part of the tail had dissolved and the rest of the thinner section fell apart very easily.

I repeated the water test with a gelatin bait, this time monitoring progress. After three minutes, the bait achieved a workable flexibility and maintained strength. After ten minutes, the paddle tail was extremely mobile, yet strength was still holding and the bait usable. After fifteen minutes, a tear developed in the tail web and the bait failed with minimum handling.

This was a static test with the bait resting in a bowl of water. I am sure under swimming conditions, the bait would fail sooner. I am sure for worm baits and other fairly static baits, the material would work, but for an active bait like a paddletail swimmer, the gelatin material was inadequate.

Something is required to stop or slow down the rehydration of the bait, in order to keep its strength.

Dave

That's some really good data Dave.

I made a batch last night intending to fish a few worms today. I added some Gulp Worm scent and salt. The baits felt a little soft coming out of the mold. I let them rest overnight and this morning I had a pile of mush. DON'T ADD SALT. That's what I learned from cleaning up that mess.

So... I'll make another batch tonight and try again tomorrow. Oh well,,, the water was darker than expected after the rains so I should have been throwing something darker anyway.

Tony

[redg8r]

Excellent job guys!

Sorry for getting into this topic so late but just wanted to add my experience.

I made my first batch a couple days before departing on the TU roadtrip and unintentionally left a few bags of baits behind in my shop. When I returned home over the weekend I found the baits had molded. Maybe a preservative of some sort would help in that area. Citric acid is natural & comes off the top of my head.

Havnt tried it yet, just thinking aloud.

Carry on

[tbrinlee]

Excellent job guys!

Sorry for getting into this topic so late but just wanted to add my experience.

I made my first batch a couple days before departing on the TU roadtrip and unintentionally left a few bags of baits behind in my shop. When I returned home over the weekend I found the baits had molded. Maybe a preservative of some sort would help in that area. Citric acid is natural & comes off the top of my head.

Havnt tried it yet, just thinking aloud.

Carry on

The mold is definitely an issue if you are storing them for any length of time. Agar (Dave is experimenting with) is the same gel that is used in petri dishes for bio lab experiments. It will grow just about anything.

I am actually hoping the Gulp scent will help since they have a similar issue and I am sure they have added some tye of Bio agent to their mix.

Below is the grape silver flake I'll try tomorrow. It came out lighter than I expected but still good enough for testign tomorrow.

Grape/Silverflake

1.5 oz Glycerin

1 tsp Gulp Earthworm scent

1 tsp Silver flake (see above)

Color

1 drop Blue

1 drop Red

Tony

[Vodkaman]

Sorry if my posts seem negative, I am just reporting what I am seeing. I certainly haven’t given up yet.

Tony – those baits are looking piscally tasty. Good luck with the testing.

I was shopping in the local supermarket and found a bag of tapioca powder. I remember from my research that this is a form of starch. Starch has been used in most of the bio plastic experiments, in some form or other, that I have seen on the web, so I bought a bag. Starch forms long chains of molecules and my thinking was that it might improve the tear strength.

I have never used tapioca in any form, so the first job was to find out what it does. It looks harmless enough, so I weighed out 100 grams and mixed it in 300 grams of water. The first thing that happens is that it clumps up into a hard blob, but if you keep working it with a wooden spoon, it eventually breaks down into a grainy fluid, but I don’t think it dissolves.

I slowly brought it upto a simmer, stirring constantly. I really do not know what I was expecting, but it started forming clear gelatinous strings. “Promising” I thought to myself. Ten seconds later, I was wrestling with a giant white blob and spent the next hour trying to clean the gluey mess from my aluminium pan.

I feel like a one legged blind man, exploring a mine field. I think we should get the ladies involved with this project. They may have more ideas about materials that can be used and know how they work. I will try a few more tests with the tapioca, to see if there is anything for us.

Dave

[tbrinlee]

Sorry if my posts seem negative, I am just reporting what I am seeing. I certainly haven’t given up yet.

Tony – those baits are looking piscally tasty. Good luck with the testing.

I was shopping in the local supermarket and found a bag of tapioca powder. I remember from my research that this is a form of starch. Starch has been used in most of the bio plastic experiments, in some form or other, that I have seen on the web, so I bought a bag. Starch forms long chains of molecules and my thinking was that it might improve the tear strength.

I have never used tapioca in any form, so the first job was to find out what it does. It looks harmless enough, so I weighed out 100 grams and mixed it in 300 grams of water. The first thing that happens is that it clumps up into a hard blob, but if you keep working it with a wooden spoon, it eventually breaks down into a grainy fluid, but I don’t think it dissolves.

I slowly brought it upto a simmer, stirring constantly. I really do not know what I was expecting, but it started forming clear gelatinous strings. “Promising” I thought to myself. Ten seconds later, I was wrestling with a giant white blob and spent the next hour trying to clean the gluey mess from my aluminium pan.

I feel like a one legged blind man, exploring a mine field. I think we should get the ladies involved with this project. They may have more ideas about materials that can be used and know how they work. I will try a few more tests with the tapioca, to see if there is anything for us.

Dave

I have used tapioca before in pudding. It's a wonderful desert if done right.

I had not thought of it as a plastic. Interesting line of thought. Let me know how that works out.

Tony

[tbrinlee]

Sorry if my posts seem negative, I am just reporting what I am seeing. I certainly haven’t given up yet.

Tony – those baits are looking piscally tasty. Good luck with the testing.

I was shopping in the local supermarket and found a bag of tapioca powder. I remember from my research that this is a form of starch. Starch has been used in most of the bio plastic experiments, in some form or other, that I have seen on the web, so I bought a bag. Starch forms long chains of molecules and my thinking was that it might improve the tear strength.

I have never used tapioca in any form, so the first job was to find out what it does. It looks harmless enough, so I weighed out 100 grams and mixed it in 300 grams of water. The first thing that happens is that it clumps up into a hard blob, but if you keep working it with a wooden spoon, it eventually breaks down into a grainy fluid, but I don’t think it dissolves.

I slowly brought it upto a simmer, stirring constantly. I really do not know what I was expecting, but it started forming clear gelatinous strings. “Promising” I thought to myself. Ten seconds later, I was wrestling with a giant white blob and spent the next hour trying to clean the gluey mess from my aluminium pan.

I feel like a one legged blind man, exploring a mine field. I think we should get the ladies involved with this project. They may have more ideas about materials that can be used and know how they work. I will try a few more tests with the tapioca, to see if there is anything for us.

Dave

Dave;

You might try Kappa Carrageenan with a bit of potassium chloride as a log chain binder and see if that helps. It may help with the hydration and the strength issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan

Tony

[Vodkaman]

Yes, I have been reading about the red seaweed. I will keep an eye open for it in the stores.

The tapioca was a flop, it changed nothing.

Dave

[rixon529]

Perhaps THIS will help. I found this quite a while back while researching biodegradable materials to substitute for plastisol, but never followed up on it to try it myself. It took me some digging to find it again...

An interesting read if you go through the whole thing, but if you want to cut to the chase, the bottom line appears (to me, anyway) to be Example 12, which is at the bottom of the page...

Rick

[tbrinlee]

Perhaps THIS will help. I found this quite a while back while researching biodegradable materials to substitute for plastisol, but never followed up on it to try it myself. It took me some digging to find it again...

An interesting read if you go through the whole thing, but if you want to cut to the chase, the bottom line appears (to me, anyway) to be Example 12, which is at the bottom of the page...

Rick

Thanks Rick. There is some good information here.

Looks like the Sodium Benzoate is used and the bacterial/fungicide (USDArecommendataion that it be in quantities of <0.1% by weight).

Thanks for the link. I saw another patent from 2003 that had some similar stuff in it. I'll see if I can find it.

Tony

[bluegrasslover]

Recipe:

Watermelon Color: 1 drop red, 2 drops green, 2 drops yellow - Kroger food coloring

Glitter - Silver - Tree House Studio Spangles - Hobby Lobby

Worm - 6oz Glycerin, 12 leafs gelatin, 1/2 tsp Xanthan Gum

Again... the Xanthan gum was key to holding the flakes in suspension.

Tony

Has anyone tried any bioplastic recipes like http://www.ehow.com/how_5352809_make-bioplastic-out-potato.html

[tbrinlee]

Has anyone tried any bioplastic recipes like http://www.ehow.com/...out-potato.html

Blue...

I haven't tried that one but like some of the other glue recipe's no particular reason why it wouldn't work.

Tony

[tbrinlee]

Dave;

You might try Kappa Carrageenan with a bit of potassium chloride as a log chain binder and see if that helps. It may help with the hydration and the strength issues.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Carrageenan

Tony

OK...

Finally got the Kappa Carrageenan in and made a couple quick baits using the following recipe:

Pumpkin Seed Craw

1.5oz Glycerin

4 leafs gelatin

¼ tsp Kappa Carrageenan

1/8 tsp Potassium Chloride

pinch sodium benzoate (preservative)

Red Glitter

Blue glitter

picture below (sorry about the picture quality).

Notes:

Definitely and sheer strength improvement. The bait ended up a little tacky. It may be the salt (Potassium chloride) reaction with the gelatin. I'll let everything dry overnight and see how it keels in the morning. Needs a little more experimenting but overall I think this is the right approach. May need to try a higher concentration of kappa and then add a bit of Iota Carrageenan to get the right feel.

I'll get a buddy of mine to do testing for me this weekend and let you know what he thought about th bait.

Tony

[tbrinlee]

OK...

Finally got the Kappa Carrageenan in and made a couple quick baits using the following recipe:

Pumpkin Seed Craw

1.5oz Glycerin

4 leafs gelatin

¼ tsp Kappa Carrageenan

1/8 tsp Potassium Chloride

pinch sodium benzoate (preservative)

Red Glitter

Blue glitter

picture below (sorry about the picture quality).

Notes:

Definitely and sheer strength improvement. The bait ended up a little tacky. It may be the salt (Potassium chloride) reaction with the gelatin. I'll let everything dry overnight and see how it keels in the morning. Needs a little more experimenting but overall I think this is the right approach. May need to try a higher concentration of kappa and then add a bit of Iota Carrageenan to get the right feel.

I'll get a buddy of mine to do testing for me this weekend and let you know what he thought about th bait.

Tony

Sorry but I left out the Pumpkin Seed color

1 drop red, 4 drops yellow, 1 drop green food coloring.

By the way the craw tastes pretty good too!

Tony

[Vodkaman]

Blue... I haven't tried that one but like some of the other glue recipe's no particular reason why it wouldn't work.

Tony

I have read this article before. I did not persue it, as the plastic is hard and not what I am looking for.

Dave

[tbrinlee]

Sorry but I left out the Pumpkin Seed color

1 drop red, 4 drops yellow, 1 drop green food coloring.

By the way the craw tastes pretty good too!

Tony

I tested the bait this morning and it feels about 75% the consistancy of a standard plastic bait. I think it needs just a little more of the carrageenan. The tackyness went away as the bait dried overnight.

Overall I am VERY happy with the results for standard soft plastic baits. I do not think the resipe is quite up to the swim bait standard but I do thingk it is gettign closer.

Tony

[Vodkaman]

Tony - glad to see you sticking with this project I have had to move on to other things at the moment, but will come back at some time to this.

How does the new version behave in water, by this I mean does it dissolve?

Any comments on tear strength, say after ten minutes soak?

Is the plastic remeltable? I ask because it would be convenient to make a large batch, then remelt as needed. Making just enough for one pour session would be tedious and wasteful.

Good work.

Dave

[tbrinlee]

Tony - glad to see you sticking with this project I have had to move on to other things at the moment, but will come back at some time to this.

How does the new version behave in water, by this I mean does it dissolve?

Any comments on tear strength, say after ten minutes soak?

Is the plastic remeltable? I ask because it would be convenient to make a large batch, then remelt as needed. Making just enough for one pour session would be tedious and wasteful.

Good work.

Dave

I'll be doing some water testing this evening and let you know what I think. I still no not think it will be suitable for a swim bait.

It does remelt just fine. I poured 4 baits Thursday and another 6 baits (stuck it in the fridge overnight) Friday night (that was from about 2 oz of material total). I added a bit more Kappa Carrageenan and potassium chloride to the last baits to stiffen them a bit.

Tony

[tbrinlee]

I'll be doing some water testing this evening and let you know what I think. I still no not think it will be suitable for a swim bait.

It does remelt just fine. I poured 4 baits Thursday and another 6 baits (stuck it in the fridge overnight) Friday night (that was from about 2 oz of material total). I added a bit more Kappa Carrageenan and potassium chloride to the last baits to stiffen them a bit.

Tony

/quote]

OK... the last recipe was a flop. Much worse on average than the Xanthum gum version... so I modified the formula again

6 leafs gelatin, 1tsp Kappa Carrageenan, 1/2 tsp potassium chloride, 1/2 tsp Xanthum gum... then followed the same color combo as before.

We'll see how this one works tomorrow.

Tony

[Oaknsalt]

How was the strength of the lure on a hook?