Aiden James Lures Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Has anyone tried this clear? 1-part, low odor, high gloss, crystal clear, and flexible. Seems to good to be true? http://supermarinepaint.com/clears-revolution-SM-1000C.asp John Aiden James Lures http://AJLures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 It does sound too good to be true! I hope someone here knows something about it, and shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdL Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 $50 buck a quart plus gotta use their thinner? Wonder what is the shelf life is after opening can? But if it is clear and tough enough tthen may worth it. Maybe some that has tried it will comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 $50 buck a quart plus gotta use their thinner? Wonder what is the shelf life is after opening can? But if it is clear and tough enough tthen may worth it. Maybe some that has tried it will comment. Isn't DN's $80/qt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Isn't DN's $80/qt? Shhhh!!!!! You're not supposed to mention how much our little hobby really costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Looks like it's a "Silicone Alkyd Epoxy-Ester Copolymer Coating"..... whatever the heck THAT is! Sounds promising if it is designed for full submersion on boat hulls. I haven't bought a qt of DN lately but the last I paid was $41.93. Did you use the TU discount page when you bought yours? Sounds like you paid the full retail price. Edited May 23, 2011 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Looks like it's a "Silicone Alkyd Epoxy-Ester Copolymer Coating"..... whatever the heck THAT is! Sounds promising if it is designed for full submersion on boat hulls. I haven't bought a qt of DN lately but the last I paid was $41.93. Did you use the TU discount page when you bought yours? Sounds like you paid the full retail price. Is that anything like a supercalafragilisticespealodocious.? In all seriousness, that sounds like 3 types of existing finish products blended together. Probably has all of the good points of the three.....and all of the bad. I heard some talk on another site that Alumilite is going to be releasing a urethane one part clear finish very soon. It is suposed to be super hard and uv protected. I wouldnt hold my breath tho...because we have all heard this kind of thing before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danderson Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 To me it sounds a lot like the properties of CS vinyl clear. Frankly I love the stuff but the problem is it reacts with polycarbonate. I'm not talking about the seal coat they have. I am talking about the old stuff. I love it for spinnerbaits but you couldn't put a soft plastic lure like a swim shad or something like that on it for very long because it would react. Anyway, what I was getting at would be checking to see if it would react with poly and soft plastics. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 To me it sounds a lot like the properties of CS vinyl clear. Frankly I love the stuff but the problem is it reacts with polycarbonate. I'm not talking about the seal coat they have. I am talking about the old stuff. I love it for spinnerbaits but you couldn't put a soft plastic lure like a swim shad or something like that on it for very long because it would react. Anyway, what I was getting at would be checking to see if it would react with poly and soft plastics. Just a thought. I bought a quart, so I will let you guys know how it works. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danderson Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Awesome. I went to the site and it sounded like the holy grail we all seek. I noticed it recommended a primer for it but I'm not sure that would apply to what we are doing. Hope not anyway it is another 45 bucks or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I bought a quart, so I will let you guys know how it works. John You Dah Man!!!!! Thanks for taking one for the team. I can't wait to hear your report. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) $50 buck a quart plus gotta use their thinner? Wonder what is the shelf life is after opening can? But if it is clear and tough enough tthen may worth it. Maybe some that has tried it will comment. Not entirely sure you need their thinner for our application. They say to use acetone to clean up so I would suggest using either pure acetone, pure MEK, or a blend of the two. The higher the concentration of MEK the slower the evaporation rate. To be on the safe side though you may want to use their thinner, because the recation could be finicky enough that you need the mobility of the 'mers' to complete the polymerization. If the thinning agent dries too fast you may have low molecular weight strings (i.e. soft). As for the chemical structure it could be lots of different things based on the name, from the typical aromatic rings to a more polysilicon (glass) structure. The name seems redundant because an epoxy ring is quickly broken down into the ester, I doubt they are using name standards because it could give away the recipe... Might be worth giving a shot. Edited May 24, 2011 by sallystrothers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Not entirely sure you need their thinner for our application. They say to use acetone to clean up so I would suggest using either pure acetone, pure MEK, or a blend of the two. The higher the concentration of MEK the slower the evaporation rate. To be on the safe side though you may want to use their thinner, because the recation could be finicky enough that you need the mobility of the 'mers' to complete the polymerization. If the thinning agent dries too fast you may have low molecular weight strings (i.e. soft). As for the chemical structure it could be lots of different things based on the name, from the typical aromatic rings to a more polysilicon (glass) structure. The name seems redundant because an epoxy ring is quickly broken down into the ester, I doubt they are using name standards because it could give away the recipe... Might be worth giving a shot. I just love it when you talk dirty! Thanks for sharing your actual knowledge with the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFischer Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I've used something from they're parent company "top Secret Coatings" 1 part epoxy that sounds identicle to this. Its pretty good stuff, durable and has the best adhesion I've seen. But you have to use the hardener or the stuff will take weeks to dry. Also make sure to thin it good and put on a very thin coating or it will run. I like it bc I can mix up a batch and coat around 25 plugs (brushed on) before it starts to harden. If you have the proper equipment I think spraying it would be the way to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted May 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I've used something from they're parent company "top Secret Coatings" 1 part epoxy that sounds identicle to this. Its pretty good stuff, durable and has the best adhesion I've seen. But you have to use the hardener or the stuff will take weeks to dry. Also make sure to thin it good and put on a very thin coating or it will run. I like it bc I can mix up a batch and coat around 25 plugs (brushed on) before it starts to harden. If you have the proper equipment I think spraying it would be the way to go Good info BigFischer! Do you have the TS-100? I don't think they sell that product anymore. What do you think will happen if I try to dip my lures in it without thinning? It says it has a 24hr cure time. That must be if it is really thin? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFischer Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Good info BigFischer! Do you have the TS-100? I don't think they sell that product anymore. What do you think will happen if I try to dip my lures in it without thinning? It says it has a 24hr cure time. That must be if it is really thin? John Yup the ts 100 is what I have and its still on the site. Its pretty thick by itself and I think you would def get runs if you tried dipping. Plus the stuff I got is purple and only when its applied very thin is it clear over a white plug. Read the application instructions, on the bottom of the page it says it can take 7 or more days to cure without hardener. Im interested in they're TS2 Urethane, sounds bomb proof but expiramenting with topcoats is getting expensive LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yup the ts 100 is what I have and its still on the site. Its pretty thick by itself and I think you would def get runs if you tried dipping. Plus the stuff I got is purple and only when its applied very thin is it clear over a white plug. Read the application instructions, on the bottom of the page it says it can take 7 or more days to cure without hardener. Im interested in they're TS2 Urethane, sounds bomb proof but expiramenting with topcoats is getting expensive LOL That brings back memories! In the early '60s, my friend's father helped us make a surfboard. He read up on fiberglass resin, and saw that the less hardner you used, the stronger the eventual fiberglass would be, so he added just the bare minimum. He believed in being careful, so he kept adding resin to get it "perfect". What was supposed to be a light red surfboard wound up being a scary red, with big drips and runs, and it took 2 weeks to harden! He had put the resin on so thick the board weighed a ton, too. We called it the Tank. But it was strong. It came off the car rack on the road once, and you couldn't even see where it had hit the pavement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I've used something from they're parent company "top Secret Coatings" 1 part epoxy that sounds identicle to this. Its pretty good stuff, durable and has the best adhesion I've seen. But you have to use the hardener or the stuff will take weeks to dry. Also make sure to thin it good and put on a very thin coating or it will run. I like it bc I can mix up a batch and coat around 25 plugs (brushed on) before it starts to harden. If you have the proper equipment I think spraying it would be the way to go Are you using a lure turner? As for hardener I bet you could use most any generic amine based epoxy hardener, like Sonite 16. Being a 1 part epoxy I bet without a hardener it is cured by the moisture in the air. If you live in a dry climate you could most definitely wait week(s) for it to cure without a hardener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Are you using a lure turner? As for hardener I bet you could use most any generic amine based epoxy hardener, like Sonite 16. Being a 1 part epoxy I bet without a hardener it is cured by the moisture in the air. If you live in a dry climate you could most definitely wait week(s) for it to cure without a hardener. Our lure's shape is very conducive to dipping. We dip almost every coat, even the pearl and UV. All the excess just drips off the nose. If it won't work dipping, we wont use it. We make too many lures to spray or brush a clear. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFischer Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Are you using a lure turner? As for hardener I bet you could use most any generic amine based epoxy hardener, like Sonite 16. Being a 1 part epoxy I bet without a hardener it is cured by the moisture in the air. If you live in a dry climate you could most definitely wait week(s) for it to cure without a hardener. It says it is cured by oxygen. And a lure turner can reduce the run problem but a thick coat wont be clear on any white paint. Looks a little brownish. It says not to apply over 2mils per coat. I tried it with the hardener after using it without and it cures alot faster and harder with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) It says it is cured by oxygen. And a lure turner can reduce the run problem but a thick coat wont be clear on any white paint. Looks a little brownish. It says not to apply over 2mils per coat. I tried it with the hardener after using it without and it cures alot faster and harder with it. That *could* be misleading, since most epoxy reactions are propagated by oxygen, any form of oxygen is considered reactive. The oxygen in water tends to act much more reactive than its counter part O2. Even though they say the epoxy is oxygen cured, it could mean elemental oxygen in which case would mean water is the strongest curing agent. In either case, an amine based hardener is much more reactive than oxygen for epoxies even though it contains no oxygen. Good to know a thick coat will not be clear. Clarity is essential for me. Edited May 28, 2011 by sallystrothers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFischer Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 That *could* be misleading, since most epoxy reactions are propagated by oxygen, any form of oxygen is considered reactive. The oxygen in water tends to act much more reactive than its counter part O2. Even though they say the epoxy is oxygen cured, it could mean elemental oxygen in which case would mean water is the strongest curing agent. In either case, an amine based hardener is much more reactive than oxygen for epoxies even though it contains no oxygen. Good to know a thick coat will not be clear. Clarity is essential for me. It says in the app instructions to increase air flow over it to help the epoxy cure. It def helps the initial "dry to touch" feel which only took a few hours but didnt seem to shorten the final cure which without hardener for me took 2-3 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Has anyone tried this clear? 1-part, low odor, high gloss, crystal clear, and flexible. Seems to good to be true? http://supermarinepa...on-SM-1000C.asp John Aiden James Lures http://AJLures.com Santa showed up! I'll try it tonight, and let you know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden James Lures Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 So I dipped an old lure right into the can with nothing added and here are my findings so far: It dipped beautifully and didn't run or seem too thick. However, it wasn't crystal clear, and it wasn't odor free, as advertised. I can still taste the VOC's. I will let you know how it dries and cures. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjiwhite Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have used many different topcoats for lures, including TopSecrets topcoat by dipping. It dried OK, but gravity left drips and hardens. It may have worked better if I would have had a lure turner back then. My best results have come from brushing on Etex and then putting lures on a lure turner. For me it's the easiest and best looking clear coat that is rock hard and clear. Blowing a hot ait gun for the first 2-3 minutes on the lure turner usually gets rid of the bubbles, but I have to let them turn overnight to completely dry so I don't get hardened drips. One other thing to note, I only use eastern red cedar for my turned plugs. I'm not sure if plastic lures would react the same way or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
