Topcoats Help

[sportsfisher]

hello,

i know there are plenty of topics about similar issues but i have a few questions that need clearing up.

firstly, i am unable to source DN as i dont think i can get it shipped internationally (at a reasonable cost anyway)

so i have been looking for a good single pack coating, i have epoxies etc but i'd like to not have to mix up 2 part epoxies etc if i dont have to.

i have tries seal coat, simply wasnt hard enough.

my main question here is about the use of urethanes like permagloss and LumiSeal.

ive read that they react with some paints? (im using createx and autoair)

if that is true, can the paint be sealed with something else before coating with urethane topcoats so it doesnt react?

thanks.

[BobP]

hello,

i know there are plenty of topics about similar issues but i have a few questions that need clearing up.

firstly, i am unable to source DN as i dont think i can get it shipped internationally (at a reasonable cost anyway)

so i have been looking for a good single pack coating, i have epoxies etc but i'd like to not have to mix up 2 part epoxies etc if i dont have to.

i have tries seal coat, simply wasnt hard enough.

my main question here is about the use of urethanes like permagloss and LumiSeal.

ive read that they react with some paints? (im using createx and autoair)

if that is true, can the paint be sealed with something else before coating with urethane topcoats so it doesnt react?

thanks.

I can't speak to the specific urethanes you mention but DN is a urethane so I don't think there is a problem topcoating acrylic paints like Createx or Auto Air with urethane products. You might check out "moisture cured urethanes" (aka MCU) available in Australia. Other MCU's are available here in the U.S., often sold as durable wood floor finishes. In my experience, most finish incompatibilities arise from the solvents in different coatings. Randomly mixing solvent based undercoatings, colors, and topcoats is a crap shoot. I also think having to mix epoxy or 2 part auto clearcoat is a pain but all said and done, I want a rock hard finish and 2 part finishes provide it.

[Fishwhittler]

U-40 Permagloss will react with createx paint, but it works fine if you seal with U-40 Color Lock first.

[sportsfisher]

I can't speak to the specific urethanes you mention but DN is a urethane so I don't think there is a problem topcoating acrylic paints like Createx or Auto Air with urethane products. You might check out "moisture cured urethanes" (aka MCU) available in Australia. Other MCU's are available here in the U.S., often sold as durable wood floor finishes. In my experience, most finish incompatibilities arise from the solvents in different coatings. Randomly mixing solvent based undercoatings, colors, and topcoats is a crap shoot. I also think having to mix epoxy or 2 part auto clearcoat is a pain but all said and done, I want a rock hard finish and 2 part finishes provide it.

thanks bobp, i'll have a look for the mcu's

[sportsfisher]

U-40 Permagloss will react with createx paint, but it works fine if you seal with U-40 Color Lock first.

thanks for the tip, i will try putting CP on first.

have you found any adhesion issues from using the color lock and permagloss?

[sportsfisher]

thanks bobp, i'll have a look for the mcu's

ok, i have had a look around but im struggling to find one that is totally clear, they all seem to have a golden hue to them.

i did find one that is clear and non-yellowing, but its a water based product, will that be ok?

it is still meant to be a very durable product.

[mark poulson]

I would look for a hardwood floor water based urethane. They have super clear versions for light stuff like maple floors.

They are typically formulated to be very water resistent, since they get damp mopped all the time.

And they are designed for foot traffic, so they're tough.

Good luck.

[Fishwhittler]

thanks for the tip, i will try putting CP on first.

have you found any adhesion issues from using the color lock and permagloss?

I haven't had any problems with Permagloss not adhering. However, there are a couple things I don't like about it:

1. Smell. It has a very strong smell, so you can't use it inside. It cleans up with lacquer thinner, which is also highly toxic.

2. Cure time. It takes upwards of a week to fully cure.

3. This isn't as much of a problem, but Permagloss needs to be refrigerated after opening or it will cure in the bottle.

It's possible to work around those difficulties, but I prefer to use epoxies instead. I really, really don't like messing with the toxicity of Permagloss and the solvents required to clean it up, and the long cure time is also a turn-off. My topcoat of preference is U-40 LS Supreme High Build.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Fishwhittler

[reborn1105]

hello,

i know there are plenty of topics about similar issues but i have a few questions that need clearing up.

firstly, i am unable to source DN as i dont think i can get it shipped internationally (at a reasonable cost anyway)

so i have been looking for a good single pack coating, i have epoxies etc but i'd like to not have to mix up 2 part epoxies etc if i dont have to.

i have tries seal coat, simply wasnt hard enough.

my main question here is about the use of urethanes like permagloss and LumiSeal.

ive read that they react with some paints? (im using createx and autoair)

if that is true, can the paint be sealed with something else before coating with urethane topcoats so it doesnt react?

thanks.

Hello I use createx and wicked colors for my airbrushing and I use DiamondFinish ClearCoat.It is just as stong as 2 part epoxies but just not two part. http://www.kbs-coatings.com/diamondfinish-clearcoat.html#pr-header-8

[sportsfisher]

Hello I use createx and wicked colors for my airbrushing and I use DiamondFinish ClearCoat.It is just as stong as 2 part epoxies but just not two part. http://www.kbs-coati...tml#pr-header-8

thanks for that info, do you spray or dip that diamond finish?

[reborn1105]

thanks for that info, do you spray or dip that diamond finish?

I thin and spray the diamond finish just have to watch the Humidity.I spray it with a cheap airbrush from Harbor freight that I replaced the plastic with glass gars. http://www.harborfre...-kit-93506.html

[Gar-Tracker]

Hello I use createx and wicked colors for my airbrushing and I use DiamondFinish ClearCoat.It is just as stong as 2 part epoxies but just not two part. http://www.kbs-coati...tml#pr-header-8

Does the Diamond finish effect the createx or do you treat it before applying.?

[Matt Moreau]

If I remember correctly the KBS Diamond Finish is a MCU just like DN S81. It has the same challenges but also produces good results similar to that of DN. You have to heat set! But if I were to purchase a MCU I would support those who are sponsors to the site like DN. He gives great discounts to us and is top notch in customer service.

[reborn1105]

Does the Diamond finish effect the createx or do you treat it before applying.?

The clear does not effect the createx , wicked or auto air colors I have shot it over all three.This from KBS Do not use UV or bake lights to cure DiamondFinish ClearCoat so not heat set.Specs. http://www.kbs-coati...rcoat-info.html Matt the only reason I put KBS out there is because sportsfisher could not get DN.

Edited June 29, 2011 by reborn1105

[saltshaker]

When you guys dip a repainted lure, do you tape the bill and eyelets, or, just let 'er rip?

Thanks

[RayburnGuy]

When you guys dip a repainted lure, do you tape the bill and eyelets, or, just let 'er rip?

Thanks

I once made the mistake of leaving the tape on the lip when I dipped the lure. Thought I was going to have to use the jaws of life to get the #$&*&$ tape off after the top coat set up.

And you don't dip the lip. Just lower the bait into whatever your using as a top coat (tail first) far enough to cover the paint job. After dipping hang it by the lip and let the excess drip off the tail of the bait. Don't worry about the hook hangers. Once the top coat sets up you can take a small drill bit, a hobby knife or whatever to clean the hook hangers up.

Ben

[BobP]

ok, i have had a look around but im struggling to find one that is totally clear, they all seem to have a golden hue to them.

i did find one that is clear and non-yellowing, but its a water based product, will that be ok?

it is still meant to be a very durable product.

Water based (sometimes termed water borne) oxygen cured urethanes are good choices for applications like floors, for which they were designed but the ones I've tried have all failed under sustained immersion in water. Why were they invented? Apparently to avoid the solvent smell and fumes that solvent based moisture cured urethanes emit when applied to floors. Easy to apply and they get the customer back into the living space asap. If you spill water on it and mop it up, they may turn milky but will dry clear and regain their durability. I know some TUers use them and like them but I just feel solvent based moisture cured urethanes are much more durable.

[sportsfisher]

The clear does not effect the createx , wicked or auto air colors I have shot it over all three.This from KBS Do not use UV or bake lights to cure DiamondFinish ClearCoat so not heat set.Specs. http://www.kbs-coati...rcoat-info.html Matt the only reason I put KBS out there is because sportsfisher could not get DN.

and thanks for telling me about the stuff reborn1105, ive found i can source this product, although a bit expensive, i will get some for sure. its the exact product ive been searching for. thanks heaps.

Matt, i would be buying DN if i could get it.

[sportsfisher]

Water based (sometimes termed water borne) oxygen cured urethanes are good choices for applications like floors, for which they were designed but the ones I've tried have all failed under sustained immersion in water. Why were they invented? Apparently to avoid the solvent smell and fumes that solvent based moisture cured urethanes emit when applied to floors. Easy to apply and they get the customer back into the living space asap. If you spill water on it and mop it up, they may turn milky but will dry clear and regain their durability. I know some TUers use them and like them but I just feel solvent based moisture cured urethanes are much more durable.

bobP,

what would you call "sustained immersion"

using it for an hour, a full days fishing .....???

i was under the impression once it has fully cured it would be fine? i have used (for fly tying etc) different craft glues and polyurethane head cements that are 'water based' and they all state they are waterproof.

how long were you leaving the clear to cure before you used it?