Bogaduck Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Hi guys did a search on wire but did not turn up what I was chasing, is 316 S/S tig wire classified as a hard wire and do any of the guys on the forum use this wire, cons and pros. Cheers and thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Grade 304 is the most commonly available SS wire. 316 is an improved version of 304 and has improved corrosion resistance in corrosive enviroments and tempreatures. Its mechanical properties are very similar to 304, so I would say that you will be good to go with 316. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I order wire from McMaster-Carr and they have a multitude of wire types available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Reading on the web about Stainless steels is tedious, as the list of properties seem meaningless. The one property that is important to our application, is the yield strength (YS). This number represents how much load or force it takes to bend the wire beyond its spring back point. Here is a list of the Stainless steels and their yield strengths for comparison: 304/YS290 : 304L/YS241 : 308/YS205 : 316/YS205 : 316L/YS170 I have collected and verified the above numbers from a number of sources and so I am confident that the data is accurate. The numbers are surprising to me, as 304 is the most commonly available steel, most often quoted for lure use. 316 is designed as a direct replacement for 304, but having improved corrosion resistance in hostile environments and temperatures, used extensively in the food industry. I think that any of the above specs would work for lures and next time I shop for wire, I will be looking for 304L, but the numbers will at least give you all some kind of guide to help you make your own choices. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogaduck Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Bobp Thanks for that link. Vodkaman Dave thanks for taking out time for the information about the stainless steel wire. Info on the web can be intimidating if you do not know how to interpret it. Think I will try the 304L stainless after I off load the 316L. Edited July 1, 2011 by Bogaduck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Dave thanks for taking out time for the information about the stainless steel wire. Info on the web can be intimidating if you do not know how to interpret it. Think I will try the 304L stainless after I off load the 316L. Is the 316L giving you problems? What diameter is it? Have you tried using it? I would think 1mm diameter for smaller lures and 1.6mm for larger lures would work great with 316L. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdL Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 For those who want some information about Stainless Steel such as what the numbers are, annealling, etc: http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogaduck Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Is the 316L giving you problems? What diameter is it? Have you tried using it? I would think 1mm diameter for smaller lures and 1.6mm for larger lures would work great with 316L. Dave Dave I'm currently using the I.6 and 1.2 mm in the 316L stainless steel wire, not really having a issue with it, unless I take my mind of the job. Just was alerted on another forum about cracking issues or I have read wrong into the whole subject. Just wanted a opion from guys like yourself and our American lure bluiders as I think they are a bit more open minded about lure building and more into explaining things. Cheers again you know me as TC to get you out of the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Dave I'm currently using the I.6 and 1.2 mm in the 316L stainless steel wire, not really having a issue with it, unless I take my mind of the job. Just was alerted on another forum about cracking issues or I have read wrong into the whole subject. Just wanted a opion from guys like yourself and our American lure bluiders as I think they are a bit more open minded about lure building and more into explaining things. Cheers again you know me as TC to get you out of the dark. In all the techy articles that I have read in the last few weeks, I have not read anything about cracking being a problem. Stainless steels do work harden when you bend them, which makes them more prone to cracking, but this goes for ALL stainless steels. I just performed a fatigue test on the two thicknesses of wire that I have. the 0.79mm (0.031") diameter bent 38 times, the 1.0mm (0.039") diameter bent 66 times. Method - I bent the end into a U shape and clamped the U between two pieces of wood. Holding with pliers, I bent flat one side (count 1) and flat the other side (count 2) and repeated until the wire broke. Seeing as we only form the wire once, plus a little bit of sideways tweaking to tune the lure, I am not concerned about cracking. You can easily perform the same test on your stock for comparison.If the wire broke after 4 or 5 bends, I probably would be concerned. Let us know what your results are. EDL - good link, very comprehensive. Pity it does not cover 308, to complete the set. Dave Edited July 1, 2011 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) I use .041" diameter soft temper stainless safety lock wire on most bass baits and have never had a corrosion or failure problem. It's type 304 wire and is reasonably priced - the 316 is more than double the cost. The McMaster-Carr website also has pretty good descriptions of the stainless wire types they carry: http://www.mcmaster.com/#metal-wire/=czlv5t Soft temper stainless is WAY EASIER to work for line ties and hook hangers. When bent into a small circle on a hook hanger, it is resistant to deformation but is just soft enough that you can easily tune a bait's line tie without damaging the lip or the finish on the nose of a bait. Edited July 1, 2011 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 316 is surgical grade. I use 308 .35 tig wire and its super strong when twisted and like $12 for a bundle that can make hundreds and hundreds of hook hangers. I also sometimes use soft temper like Bob for my tow eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogaduck Posted July 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Method - I bent the end into a U shape and clamped the U between two pieces of wood. Holding with pliers, I bent flat one side (count 1) and flat the other side (count 2) and repeated until the wire broke. Seeing as we only form the wire once, plus a little bit of sideways tweaking to tune the lure, I am not concerned about cracking. You can easily perform the same test on your stock for comparison.If the wire broke after 4 or 5 bends, I probably would be concerned. Let us know what your results are. Dave Dave results of my wire test, not controlled but probably a good sign. Wire Type 316LSi except for the .9mm(.035") unknown. .8mm (.031") Average breaking point 46 .9mm (.035") Average breaking point 34 1.2mm (.047") Average breaking point 25 1.6mm (.063") Average breaking point 37 For the sake of the discussion take six bends of each average, so the lowest number would be 19. If I hade to tune a Lure 19 times I would be making some terrible lures, I'm fighting some mean fish or I'm not fishing hard enough. All up I think the safety margin is good, might have a failure from time to time as not everything is constant. Cheers and thanks for everyones contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Dave results of my wire test, not controlled but probably a good sign.Wire Type 316LSi except for the .9mm(.035") unknown. .8mm (.031") Average breaking point 46 .9mm (.035") Average breaking point 34 1.2mm (.047") Average breaking point 25 1.6mm (.063") Average breaking point 37 For the sake of the discussion take six bends of each average, so the lowest number would be 19. If I hade to tune a Lure 19 times I would be making some terrible lures, I'm fighting some mean fish or I'm not fishing hard enough. All up I think the safety margin is good, might have a failure from time to time as not everything is constant. Cheers and thanks for everyones contribution. Those results look perfectly acceptable to me. The 1.2 an 1.6 look right for the same material for both, but also demonstrates that 316L is not as forgiving as 304. The results for 0.8 and 0.9 are strange and point to different materials being used. Thanks for posting this. It gives a good reference if members want to compare their wires. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
