RayburnGuy Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 What your talking about concerning the diving lips carries right into baits like the old Mudbugs. Some fishermen won't even throw them because they don't like the metal lips. Even fishermen that like and use them are divided on whether or not the lip should be painted. And even the ones that like the unpainted metal lip there are some that think the lip should be left dull while others like it shiny. It's like the old saying goes. The only ones that know for sure are the fish and they aren't talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crankpaint Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) ok heres my 2 cents fish prey on other fish,the weak one the strong one the hurt and crippled ones but thay prey on the ones that are diffirent more times then not so if you make a bait diff. looking then the other bait the fish are feeding on (say shad)then you should have a hot bait just by making it with a diff. color or size,I have seen fish not hit a 3inch lure becouse the bait that thay were feeding on was 2 inchs long and also the other way around most fish strike a lure out of instint becouse it is swimming passed them and if thay don't it will be gone and might have been its best chance at eating anything that day so yes a bait has to be fished to catch fish so you must catch the fisherman/woman first so thay can throw the bait....... Edited October 15, 2011 by crankpaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaj007 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Herman, Regarding your technique of reflective mylar on underside of clear bill. On a commercial plastic lure bill (cast plastic). would you have the reflective surface face down?? or up, to be seen through the bill? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCBOS Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnie3035 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Herman, Regarding your technique of reflective mylar on underside of clear bill. On a commercial plastic lure bill (cast plastic). would you have the reflective surface face down?? or up, to be seen through the bill? Thanks I was wondering the same thing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatchingConcepts Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) On the holographic mylar, I affix it to the bottom side of my flat lexan lips then coat it with couple coats of clear, then install the line tie wire form on deep diving bills. The mylar should be positioned so that the most reflective surface is pointing upward on lip, as the available sunlight will reflect off and be diffused all directions as the bait wobbles. The mylar film I use is very thin with reflective qualities on both sides. I find most of my materials at craft stores or giftwrap areas. Any thin reflective material will do, I like to use something with extra holographic flash paterns. On injection molded lips the underside surface is rather uneven and tougher to attach to, better to get flat lay and you want its most reflective side facing upward. I have on on several occasions affixed a strip of the mylar film to the top of the crankbait lip, removing the split ring and cutting a small slit to allow the line tie to pass through. Then affixing with spray adhesive and coating with clear exoxy to help with durability. Edited October 20, 2011 by CatchingConcepts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatchingConcepts Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) On a similar subject of finishes... Matte finishes were somewhat popular for a short time, but fizzled, again likely because they dont catch the fishermans eye like a deep glossy brilliant finish. Matte finifhes are dull, and tend to get a scuffed or dirty look easily if not taken care of. Just not great selling points to fishermen, they lack the pretty elements, but what do the fish think of them? There are reasons that a matte finish looks more natural underwater and subdued hues . In much of the gin clear water I fish I feel that wary smallmouth will hit a matte finish crank with subdued colors at times much more readily than a stock glossy color. Here is an interesting article to consider... http://www.bassfan.com/bigbass_article.asp?ID=36 I especiall like matte finishes on deep diving baits in craw hues. To get the effect I spray Krylon frosted glass finish over my top coat. Has anyone else experiment with finishes like this? Edited October 20, 2011 by CatchingConcepts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnart Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Oh gosh who knows, I'm on the fence. I think natural baits should be good because lets face it, fish live for years eating natural prey, there are no firetiger or pink shad swimming around. But on the other hand I think you might get a reaction strike outa some bright ungly color. So I think it's both, one fish might like a natural bait right now, but when he's inactive, might cream a chartreuse bait. Bottem line it depends on the fishes mood... Just my opinion.. Oh gosh who knows, I'm on the fence. I think natural baits should be good because lets face it, fish live for years eating natural prey, there are no firetiger or pink shad swimming around. But on the other hand I think you might get a reaction strike outa some bright ungly color. So I think it's both, one fish might like a natural bait right now, but when he's inactive, might cream a chartreuse bait. Bottem line it depends on the fishes mood... Just my opinion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfflipper Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 On a similar subject of finishes... Matte finishes were somewhat popular for a short time, but fizzled, again likely because they dont catch the fishermans eye like a deep glossy brilliant finish. Matte finifhes are dull, and tend to get a scuffed or dirty look easily if not taken care of. Just not great selling points to fishermen, they lack the pretty elements, but what do the fish think of them? There are reasons that a matte finish looks more natural underwater and subdued hues . In much of the gin clear water I fish I feel that wary smallmouth will hit a matte finish crank with subdued colors at times much more readily than a stock glossy color. Here is an interesting article to consider... http://www.bassfan.c...ticle.asp?ID=36 I especiall like matte finishes on deep diving baits in craw hues. To get the effect I spray Krylon frosted glass finish over my top coat. Has anyone else experiment with finishes like this? On a similar subject of finishes... Matte finishes were somewhat popular for a short time, but fizzled, again likely because they dont catch the fishermans eye like a deep glossy brilliant finish. Matte finifhes are dull, and tend to get a scuffed or dirty look easily if not taken care of. Just not great selling points to fishermen, they lack the pretty elements, but what do the fish think of them? There are reasons that a matte finish looks more natural underwater and subdued hues . In much of the gin clear water I fish I feel that wary smallmouth will hit a matte finish crank with subdued colors at times much more readily than a stock glossy color. Here is an interesting article to consider... http://www.bassfan.c...ticle.asp?ID=36 I especiall like matte finishes on deep diving baits in craw hues. To get the effect I spray Krylon frosted glass finish over my top coat. Has anyone else experiment with finishes like this? I remember one time while I lived in North Carolina( Bob Szymzkowskis area) you know him Herman, that David Fritts lays his baits out to fade and he also was saying that water over 8 ft deep in most of the lakes and rivers are too stained for fish to see most colors. And in a previous post you made Herman that pros hide what they use is the truth. We had David Wright , Gerald Beck and David Fritts come to our club and talk about the stuff that they use and they all said they use their sponsers stuff and no one elses. They where on Browning and Poes, "PROSTAFF" and just a few weeks later I was fishing a tourny at High Rock Lake and Wright come pulling up beside me and we were talking and I noticed he and his partner was using Lews rod and reels and had bagleys crankbaits tied on and there were no known colors tied on their rods but they later became colors for Poes crankbaits so they don't always have what the general public sees. Just what I have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) my experience with matte finishes is.. it looks just like a shinny normal clear coat bait under the water. Doesnt make a darn bit of difference. Once you put it under water its has a natural clear coat we all like to call H2O. Edited October 21, 2011 by The_Rookie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatchingConcepts Posted October 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Very true, in our eyes, when a matte finish bait is underwater its colors look much more clear. Infact it is because the ambient light refracts off the bait in a much more natural way, and the bass see the colors available to them with much less of a mirrored effect that you will get with a deep glossy coated bait. Many factors are dependant though on how the bass sees the bait and which colors they actually do see in given depth and water clarity. In stained or off colored waters glossy baits will have far less flash effect and may have positive triggering quailties much like chromed baits, but as with my experiences in ultra clear California waters, high gloss baits on sunny days can be overwhelming and actually alert the bass of something very un-natural at times. Read : http://www.midwestou...fm?articleID=44 As with the article written by trophy bass hunters throwing swim baits in gin clear water (couple posts above). Besides the factor of fishermans confidence level in a given color patern of a bait, color is really the least important part of the equasion in presenting a bait correctly in a given fishes environment to coax a strike. All lures are just tools for a given job, and while you can remove a bolt with a pliers, it is much more productive to have a rachet and socket. As is so with crankbaits... If you arent throwing a bait that is covering the correct depth, with the best action to attract the fish for that given job, pretty colors will do little magic. At an ICAST show in Vegas many moons ago I was standing near the Poes booth with a couple of my cranks in hand talking shop with several other guys when a man walks up and puts his hand on my shoulder... Tells me he has some experience with cranks... I turn around and there stands David Fritts... We proceeded to go have lunch and talk cranks, was one of those educations of a lifetime! I have some personal insight into touring pros tools of choice and have in years past had numerous well known pros personally as customers of my baits including one you mention above. They have greatly helped with their input to shape the baits I offer today. Which brings me back to the common point here. I know my baits are not the most sexi, but they are tools for given uses, years of evolution and input have helped me to create a lure I KNOW will put fish in the boat when presented correctly in the right given environment. There's much more to a good quality bait than a pretty paint job... Edited October 21, 2011 by CatchingConcepts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatchingConcepts Posted October 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Oh, and YES a quick shout out to a good friend who continues to help me ensure that Catching Concepts crankbaits remain relevent tools and gain exposure to NC area bass guys... Thank you Bob Szymakowski! All you guys in the NC area make sure to stop by Sportfisherman booth at Raliegh Sports Show Jan 5-8th and Greensboro Feb 24-26th... Say hello to Bob and check out all the products he is helping to represent! Edited October 21, 2011 by CatchingConcepts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltshaker Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Im pretty old school in my style and paterns I paint on my cranks, but recently played some with photo printing on my baits... For my first attempt it came off better than I thought, and actually was rather easy method as outlined here in a tutorial. Just wondering others thoughts, myself, Ive made and fished countless baits, and for me, its all about size, action and basic hue or color. Photo finishes make for sexi looking baits, but I'm thinking its more a catch the fisherman than fish issue... Thoughts? Great lookin' bait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfflipper Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Herman, how in the world did you ever meet Szymakowski? I've known him for 11-12 yrs now. Good guy! And he will represent our crankbaits well! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTsFishing Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Great thread! I couldn't help but notice no one had mentioned the way the lure looks as it's running. If you hold the lure by the bill and wiggle it back and forth, you will see a general pattern emerge. This pattern is what the crankbait really looks like to the fish. Intricate detail is lost with movement as the colors blend together. If you can see your details while you wiggle, then it's made a difference, if not, a waste of time. Even when paused or bouncing off cover, it's still moving or floating up. (it's like trying to see the blue ink on a rawlings baseball when it's pitched, all you can see is red/white) Unless it's a suspending bait that you stop for long pauses or crank slowly, then I can see where more intricate detailing would be important. This has been my experience anyway. I hate to be off topic, but does anyone have any white G10, I'm having a rough time finding any at all. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donal Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 basicly nobody has cracked the whole story yet or we would all use the same lure. when it comes to color difrent fish see them diferently and all are difrent to us. so an exact match on the deck of a boat is meaningless. coulors change at various depts for example you cant see red at depth without artifical light. ultraviolate is a pritty important coulor with lures but is rarly used becase the fisherman cant see it. visability changes color. refletion changes aparent color transparincy is a bit important. but even that is insignificant becase fish will only chase what it can catch as in its dying or slow ect, or anoyes them enough and provokes a responce. noise is a important to get right too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddl Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 ultra realistic lure is simply not good compared to the regular colors have a look at rapala website nothing really look lifelike and man they catch tons of fishs as a musky angler i really enjoy firetiger ,strawberry,black sucker,white scales,nothing that really mimic baitfish colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Great thread! I couldn't help but notice no one had mentioned the way the lure looks as it's running. If you hold the lure by the bill and wiggle it back and forth, you will see a general pattern emerge. This pattern is what the crankbait really looks like to the fish. Intricate detail is lost with movement as the colors blend together. If you can see your details while you wiggle, then it's made a difference, if not, a waste of time. Even when paused or bouncing off cover, it's still moving or floating up. (it's like trying to see the blue ink on a rawlings baseball when it's pitched, all you can see is red/white) Unless it's a suspending bait that you stop for long pauses or crank slowly, then I can see where more intricate detailing would be important. This has been my experience anyway. I hate to be off topic, but does anyone have any white G10, I'm having a rough time finding any at all. Thanks! CTs - re white G10: RayburnGuy sent me a crank that had very white opaque G10 and I think he said it came from McMaster-Carr. It was whiter than the G10 lips sold by Janns, etc, which are more translucent. The problem is this: you have to call and ask G10 providers about color before you order. Most of them stock G10 for electrical board builders, rocket hobbiests, etc, and so they don't care about color. I bought white G10 from ASP Rocketry.com for years and it was the only source I could find for small sheets. I recommended the source to several builders until one told me the sheets he got from ASP were not the white stuff anymore. ASP guys use it for rocket fins and usually paint them, so they don't care. Note to crankbait component sellers: you could do worse than buy 4x8' white G10 sheets from a manufacturer and cut them into "hobby size" 12x12" sheets for resale to hobby and small scale crankbait builders. Mark me down for some in 1/32" thickness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freshfishingmi Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 great read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly voodoo Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Old thread but I am another that believes fancy paint jobs don’t make a difference in catching fish I do pay attention to the color spectrum and how colors are affected by light being filtered out. This is more important in deep water or stained. Contrast makes a difference and the way a bait flickers because of it My top producing patterns are not my natural paint jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowFISH Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Hillbilly voodoo said: Old thread but I am another that believes fancy paint jobs don’t make a difference in catching fish I do pay attention to the color spectrum and how colors are affected by light being filtered out. This is more important in deep water or stained. Contrast makes a difference and the way a bait flickers because of it My top producing patterns are not my natural paint jobs I just painted about 40 cranks for me and my friends over the last 2-3 months for the upcoming season... I sweated the color of each bait, texture placement, bought color changing mica to add to the baits to get some great effects and sweated every detail - I think I painted, then sanding off the paint jobs of 8-10 lures that I didn't like a week later after looking at them - super anal about everything... yet my favorite topwater lure (LC Gunfish in sunfish color) that I've had for years looks like I drag it behind my car to the lake every trip - half the paint is either flaked or hook rashed off - eyes have been glued back on 2x cause the originals and replacements fell off after hits with rocks/trees and its still the best lure I have!!! I also have a friend that kills with a squarebill that he painted florescent orange with a krylon spray can - no masking, no pattern of dots - nothing - just shot the whole bait orange bill and all and uses it.... arrgghhh kills me!! LOL!! No doubt we all over think most of this stuff WAY WAY WAY more than any fish ever does. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 LOL, this almost reads like an article I read in a fishing magazine in the 70's. I don't think anything has changed, except the color patterns and the names. Soooo, I will toss my 2 cents into the pot. I am a fishing manager at one store for a fairly well known company. I have walls and walls of various lures. Some times the colors are so close to each other that you can't tell them apart without reading the package. It would be one thing if it was one brand trying to copy someone else's color, but often it is the same brand with super minor changes. If you are even slightly color blind, like my past store manager was, you can't tell them apart at all. So, why do we need so many different colors? Well, I don't know, but my life would be easier if it were not like this. I expect that it is to catch the fisherman, and sometimes it works, and sometimes I just have pegs and pegs of lures that don't sell. I have been known to buy the unpopular colors on clearance for myself and I do as well with them as other more popular colors. Does color matter? Of course it does. An internet check can provide information on how far colors penetrate into the water, and I don't care how fish see color because I know they cannot see a color if the light energy cannot penetrate to a specific depth. It just drives me nuts when I see a red color on a lure designed to be fished deep. Red is the first color to be absorbed by the water and it penetrates even less to almost none at all in dirty water. It is popular because it stands out and looks good to Humans. On the other hand, while blue penetrates the deepest, not a lot of natural food is heavy on the color blue (I guess they want to remain hidden - LOL). If you were to see one of my baits, they would be photo transfers for the most part, not because I think they are better but because I stink at painting. Nevertheless, I too have found many of my simplest non-photo baits work better, if I match the colors to the depth and water clarity and time of day. I don't sell baits, I make baits for myself and friends. I can't make enough to make production worth while and that is not why I do it. But, a friend is a noted "Bass Pro" who shall remain un-named do to sponsors. He has used one of my baits and won a couple of tournaments, and I promise that the lure is removed and hidden before anyone can determine that he was not using a sponsor's bait. I don't have a problem with that at all. So, back to the original question, Catching-Fisherman or Fish? Some color combinations have proven track records over history that just work, and often the combinations are not specific patterns but combinations. As previously mentioned, light underbelly, flashy sides, dark back is a winner. The firetiger color has been a proven color. The Coachdog patterns, olive with black spotted frog, orange back with gold sides are all proven colors but have lost favor with a lot of fisherman. It will be interesting to see if the Sexy Shad will join the ranks or will fall off over time. I will vote on this old thread as having mixed feelings. I know that at times color is very important, but paying attention to other details is often far more important. I know that sales are driven by catching Fisherman, not catching fish. Most of the buyers of the mass produced lures buy on looks, not function (even when function is explained). The dedicated fishermen that buy your custom lures are probably more interested in function with color being secondary. Given an option, I sell function with color explained and secondary. I seldom get that option. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenlures Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Now that we seem to keep talking about the lures of one color or another we seem to forget the packaging that really is the first look a fisherman sees. The brand is second then color he has maybe a minute or less to decide which lure he wants. So what order would you say is #1 color #2 packaging,#3 brand. This could start another page. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exx1976 Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, ravenlures said: Now that we seem to keep talking about the lures of one color or another we seem to forget the packaging that really is the first look a fisherman sees. The brand is second then color he has maybe a minute or less to decide which lure he wants. So what order would you say is #1 color #2 packaging,#3 brand. This could start another page. Wayne I don't know about most guys, but when I used to go to Rollie & Helens (prior to making my own, I don't intend to go there at all anymore now), I skipped the stuff in the packages and tried to stick to stuff that was hanging on a peg by the hook. I tried to pick colors that mimicked forage where I would be fishing, or colors that I knew were good for that water - no matter how attractive some of the other lures may have looked. But, then again, I'm not exactly winning any tournaments either, so take from that what you will. LOL That said, now that I *AM* making baits, I will certainly have my fair share of colors that are designed to "catch fishermen". But hey, if they're confident, they'll throw it more, and will eventually catch fish on it. So there's that. Edited February 25, 2021 by exx1976 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD_mudbug Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 I can only toss in one cent. I have deutan color blindness. I have no choice really but to choose function over color. I look at function first as in ‘I need a crankbait to fish 3-6 feet deep and bang off objects. I need a squarebill or another bait that can deflect’. For a mass produced bait, I first look to a brand that I know makes a good bait for the function I am looking for. Then, I look for color. If I there is a brand I have not used before for that function, I will be more likely to buy their bait if the paint scheme looks better or comes in a color the known brand does not have. If I am buying a custom bait, it is the same. Function comes first. I try to find out the diving depth, tight/moderate/wide wobble, fast float/slow float/suspending/sinking. Then, I look at color. In each function, I like to have a minimum of 6 colors: a pearl or white bait, a black or dark bait, a chrome or gold chrome bait, a couple of the local prey colors, and a loud color like a fire tiger or hot steel. Like most people who fish, I have way too much tackle and have a couple dozen different colors in each type of bait function. Packaging comes last. Packaging can help or hurt. I can differentiate colors better against a white background. Unfortunately, a lot of fishing packaging contains multiple colors or black behind the lure. I don’t mind elaborate colors on the top or around the edges of the packaging. I like it when there is just one color (preferably a light color) in the area behind the bait. One thing I don’t like is seeing is calling a color scheme a cool or comedic name which does not describe what the color actually is. I have a hard time telling what color a lure is and calling it ‘paycheck’, ‘donkey punch’ or 'freak show' does nothing to help me. It can be a turn off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
