FishBones Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hey gang, heres my issue: I usully make a sculpey master, then a mater mold in oomoo, then production molds out of bondo. I need the oomoo in the middle due to the masters being hard. i want to skip that expensive oomoo step. Anyone ever tried straight modeling clay with bondo? An I headed for disaster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pancho Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Micheal its Big Pancho. Brother your killing me with the trying to save a buck in trying to make your master molds with a cheaper product other than silicone. When we all started this crazy hobby we all went through the same thing as you. But just bite the bullet and save and buy the silicone in a bulk five gallon pale. Remember this your baits will only be as good as the materials you make them with. Just my two cents. I am no pro at this bait making stuff but have put in a little time making a few. Brother best of luck to you with the bait business. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msierrah Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hi Michael, Just last week happened to me. Tried to use my sculpey masters directly on resin. I used a good quantity of oil spray but it didn't work. I ended up destroying some nice masters. I think Big Pancho is right. Best regards. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robalo01 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I have also been doing this for about 10 years. I make my masters from Sculpting clay and pour the first mold with polyester resin. If I really like the bait, I make a silicone "negative" of the resin mold and mutilply it between 50 and 100 calls. I keep my original resin mold in a safe place and make a new negative as needed. Although you lose you original clay master, you keep the original mold. I have found I can undercut about 15-20% of the cavity and the silicone still comes out of the resin without any difficulty. Keep in mind that the replicated molds could shrink about 7-8% compared to the original, so take that into accounf when making your master. This has worked great for me. Good luck, Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallie Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 The rule of thumb is hard master, soft mold and soft master, hard mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbass Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Another alternative for your master is candle wax. Easy to carve and when the resin cures it will melt out for the most part. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishBones Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Pancho, I hope you know that I respect your skills, experience and willingness to help the new pourers. You're a brother in all respects. But you are way off base here. First off, Bondo is roughly 1/3 the cost of the OOMOO I use when needed, $40 a gallon versus $150. I'm not saving a buck, I'm keeping money for my family instead of tossing it at the molds. Also, if everything has already been tried then this would not be a forum for q and a, it would be a set of instructions and a list of suppliers, done deal. You do a disservice to yourself and the people who read and respect your words when you say things like that. I've been an experience craftsman on a forum, helping to field newcomer questions, they get repetitive and old, but there are gems here and there. Everyone has something to add, please don't stifle that. For the others that replied, especially Robalo, thank you guys. I now have several different application based methods developed for different molding and prototyping techniques. Again, Pancho, love ya bro, you the man, but being the man means your words and actions carry weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pancho Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Pancho, I hope you know that I respect your skills, experience and willingness to help the new pourers. You're a brother in all respects. But you are way off base here. First off, Bondo is roughly 1/3 the cost of the OOMOO I use when needed, $40 a gallon versus $150. I'm not saving a buck, I'm keeping money for my family instead of tossing it at the molds. Also, if everything has already been tried then this would not be a forum for q and a, it would be a set of instructions and a list of suppliers, done deal. You do a disservice to yourself and the people who read and respect your words when you say things like that. I've been an experience craftsman on a forum, helping to field newcomer questions, they get repetitive and old, but there are gems here and there. Everyone has something to add, please don't stifle that. For the others that replied, especially Robalo, thank you guys. I now have several different application based methods developed for different molding and prototyping techniques. Again, Pancho, love ya bro, you the man, but being the man means your words and actions carry weight. Micheal first and fore most I can respect your opinion and I thank you for the nice compliment. What I should have said is folks should try RTV silicone. I feel it is the best method to make a mold. Now yes its expensive to use but your baits will always come out pristine. Now Micheal I have used and have tried many methods in making my molds cheaper but I do not like having to keep applying a release agent to the inexpensive mold. I figure the least oil residue I have to be in contact with the better. Now folks don't have to buy a full gallon to start off they can purchase the rtv in smaller quantities. A quart size of rtv silicone is roughly 30 to 40 bucks. I personally would think if someone spent countless hours in carving a hard master than I think they would be willing to spend the money to make a nice mold that they would be happy with. Now you mentioned different methods in casting your molds. I think if maybe you shared a few of these methods the gang on here would definitively would appreciate it. Now there is a way of stretching that high cost of silicone to your favor and that is by coating the outer surface of the hard master and making sure the master is coated with at least two coats of rtv silicone. Once the masters surface is completely cover and dry. The next step would be to fill in the rest of the mold box with a filler like bondo or plaster of paris. So now you have the best of both worlds a little amount of expensive rtv silicone and a inexpensive filler with the bondo or plaster of paris. Micheal we still need to get together for that fishing trip. You take care and God Bless you and yours. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wchilton Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 I haven't worked with bondo but it would probably work. There are other ways to save bucks, though. I've re-used cured silicone by cutting into small pieces and adding to new molds after pouring just-mixed silicone. You can also grind up the used rtv in a blender if you add a little bit of pure silicone oil and then mix it into the new rtv as a "filler". To get perfect surfaces, make sure and coat the master with just the rtv before adding stuff with filler in it. A lot of guys here use plaster of paris (POP) for molds. For best value, get your plaster at a plaster supply house. Regular "casting plaster" runs something like $15 to $20 per 100 pound sack and that is good for a lot of molds. Forget about things like "Ultracal", those are gypsum "cements" and even though they set up harder they contain sand so they don't give as good a surface finish as plain old POP. Modeling clay can be melted just below boiling water temp so if you ever have an issue removing it, just heat it up and pour it out. It also softens before melting so you wouldn't have to completely melt it if you just need it softer for easier removal. Modeling clay is made by adding parafin and oil to clay solids. You might want to just try carving parafin to make your master. Parafin also softens up when warm. What does Sculpey do when heated? It might soften enough to remove from a hard mold. I noticed some that I worked with wasn't really hard until it cooled. You might try heating a small piece to around 150 or 200 degrees and see how it behaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 search for posts by a member named Husky. He was making molds by using the good mold making silicone as a skin only. The rest of the mold was made of cheaper silicon sealent (caulking type) and water. The water mixed in to it makes it cure in minutes. It is a real money saver and you still get the flexibility of using silicone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little man baits Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 So what you are saying Sonnie is that u can use regular silicone found in the tubes to do this sort of thing with the water mixtures as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little man baits Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 So what u are saying is that u could use regular silicone and water mixture to make molds with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacrosse3803 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 dip your master like a swimbait. It will give it a soft outer that won't stick to the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 It has to be pure silicone like the fishtank type. I dont actually do it so Im not sure of all the specifics. Look for the posts I suggested above because that guy worked out all of the details. There is another method for using the other types of silicone sealant on YouTube. I think it requires adding cornstarch and glycerine but I think it stinks (fumes) real bad. I thought about messing with all of this at one time or another but It is just too easy to buy it, mix it up, and pour.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishBones Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Gotta admit, after throwing a fit further up this post, frankly, I'm back using OOMOO for just about everything. A hard mold kind of sucks for pulling out soft baits with lots of detail. My "thing" or design strategy involves lots and lots of surface area on my baits, and 80% of what I do is swimbaits, meaning you always have lots of stickiness and you have to get those tails out. I lose time with a hard mold because I have to wait longer to demold. The softer silicone molds allow you to demold sooner and involve less deformation of the bait when you demold. Time is $ just like materials are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
