Line Getting Tangled In Front Treble On Glider

[RayburnGuy]

I've built a couple of slow sinking glide baits that the line is getting tangled in the front treble. One is a 3" bait and the other is a 5". They both have what I consider to be a great action that is pretty erratic with up and down as well as side to side movement. Is the line getting tangled in the front treble a characteristic of these shorter baits or is it common on other gliders as well? I've tried monofilament as well as braid with the results being the same. It doesn't do it every time. Just enough to be a little aggravating. Does anyone know of a fix for this or is it something I'm going to have to live with?

thanks guys,

Ben

Edited December 3, 2011 by RayburnGuy

[crankpaint]

i used to have that happen on broken back rebels walleye fishing and a few baits i have made did it to i found that by moving the front hook back just 1/4 to 1/2 inch will cure it in 99% of the cases on the rebels we just removed the front trebel hook

[woodenfeather]

I've tried monofilament as well as braid with the results being the same.

Some baits are prone to this. I would say to increase the size of the mono or switch to stiffer fluorocarbon or hard mason line. This is what I do because I almost always am using braid with a mono leader attached with a double uni or albright. Make sure you are tying directly to the bait, preferably with a loop knot. The fewer "hinges" in the connection the better. I made some twitch baits that do full somersaults. One out of 5 or 6 casts they would get fouled until I switched to heavier mono.

[mark poulson]

Ben,

I find a faster retrieve cuts down on line tangle. That's hard to use in the winter, but it helps in warmer water.

A heavier mono will also help, because it is more buoyant, so the line stays up out of the way better.

A direct tie will help even more, but it will cut down on the lure's action a lot, except on the shorter ones. Short, fat lures walk the dog under water just fine with a direct tie. Making them so they swim like you want is the challenge for me.

I think you should try the direct line tie and heavier mono with your lures. They should be short enough to handle it.

Edited December 3, 2011 by mark poulson

[RayburnGuy]

Thanks guys. I'll give your ideas a try.

Ben

[Lure--Prof]

Hey Ben,

This is a very good question to bring up. As the guys said, heavier mono or fluoro will definitely help. I almost never build lures with 3 trebles...my larger jerkbaits and topwaters I always build with just a pair of trebles. This also allows me to increase the size of my hooks, which makes me feel lots better when I hook a big fish.

I really think that 3 sets of trebles on a lot of traditional lures is an outdated concept: The hooks we have today are so much better than the hooks that used to come on these baits way back when, and I think that most manufacturers never bothered to fix what wasn't broken, at least in their eyes. When you examine the history of a jerkbait's first cousin, the similarly shaped dual-prop topwaters, you find that they used to put as many trebles on those baits as could they fit on them in some cases, but I believe that today all you do with that extra set of trebles is injure fish, something that was never a concern back when nearly every bass that was caught was eaten.

[Sonny.Barile]

I had this happen on a certain brand sub-surface walker......I turned the front treble around 180 degrees and it fixed the problem. May not work for you as it will possibly add a hook rash problem on your bait. Although it seems like the easiest thing to try first.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Sonny.Barile

[mark poulson]

Ben/Sonny,

How about cutting off the front part of the treble, and "T" ing out the rest, so you have a flat double hook?

And on a similar subject, have you guys embedded a small magnet in the belly of a crank, behind the front hook holder, to hold the hook tight to the bait and cut down on hook rash? I've thought about doing it, but keep telling myself that the hook will come loose on the cast.

Hmmm......

One of the better SoCal builders, Tylures, uses a piece of small drinking straw-like plastic tubing, slit down the side and glued to the belly, on there swimbaits, to hold the hook shank tight to the bait until it gets eaten. That might work, too.

Edited December 4, 2011 by mark poulson

[BobP]

Whether to use 3 versus 2 trebles on jerkbaits, and where the hooks are installed are interesting questions. If you look at why certain jerkbaits are more popular than others, one clear tendency for "more popular" is having 3 versus 2 treble hooks. An example might be the LC Pointer (2) versus the Slender Pointer (3). There's a bias toward the Slender Pointer among pro tourney fishermen and the extra treble is a big part of it. How the belly treble acts on a bait is also a big determinant of how popular a bait will be. If hangs up on the bait's lip 20% of the time, or if it fouls on the line with any frequency, that bait will not become popular. When you hit the sweet spot on a piece cover with that all-important first cast, it is very frustrating to find your bait tangled in the line or the treble hooked around the lip so there is zero chance of retrieving the bait properly or getting bit. I strongly believe everyone should build their baits exactly the way they think is best. But I also think there is usually some method to the madness when the larger community of fishermen show preferences. I build baits to suit myself, not the general fishing public, but it's worth thinking about why their preferences exist.

[Sonny.Barile]

Mark

That is an interesting idea. I have thought of using a magnet and a steel dowel pin for a "shift after casting" weight.

[blazt*]

You could clip the leading hook on the front treble. Or you could clip the leading hook on all the trebles, which would probably allow you to upsize hooks. Likewise, run double hooks instead of trebles...but there are very few doubles to choose from, sadly.

You'll be able to slide over those annoying subsurface logs jutting out from the bank, too, without that front treble catching.

I do this on all my topwaters for this reason, and my hookup ratio is close to 100%.

If this were a topwater, I'd say wax the last few feet of your line.

Do you tie directly to the line tie on this lure, with no split ring? If so, you could cinch the knot down extra tight at a 45 or 90 deg. up angle. I do this with jigs to get better action, but it might keep the line just far enough away from that front hook.

[bassnbrad]

Would this do you any good?

[Seeking 56]

Have you tried down sizing the front treble?

s54

[RayburnGuy]

I only put two hooks on each of the two different lures. The 3" inch bait, in my opinion, doesn't have enough room for installing three hooks and the 5" bait looked to me like it would be a little crowded with three hooks as well. Plus by only using two hooks I figured on using larger hooks. Using bigger hooks (on just about everything from plastics to top waters) is burned deep into the fishing part of my brain. (so is heavy line) I know the prominent thinking is that you'll get more bites with small line and all, but if your fishing around as much timber as I do, and in a lake where you could catch the fish of a lifetime, I'll guarantee you that I'll land more of what I do hook using big hooks and heavy line.

I haven't thought about cutting off the front hook and I don't know why as I used to just bend the hook point back against the hook shaft. This gave the hook a sort of round keel to slide over stuff. Will have to try this.

I was fishing the baits with a snap connected directly to the tow eye. I haven't used split rings in many, many years. Tying directly to the tow eye will be another thing I'll have to try.

May also have to try imbedding a magnet on the next one I build.

I'm as afraid of weedless hooks as a 'possum is an axe handle. I know a lot of people use them with good success, but after missing some good fish that I blamed the weedless hooks for (they were the best thing I could come up with to lay blame on) I quit using them.

There is no doubt I will be building more of these baits as I've never seen a lure with the action these baits have. It's just too bad that the erratic action that I like so much is the cause of the problem. I can promise one thing even if I can't find a solution for the problem. I will be fishing these suckers.

Thanks for all the help and ideas everyone.

Ben

[Sonny.Barile]

When the hook hangs down straight, which side faces the front? The single side or the double? Which ever it is, remove it from the split ring and reinstall turned araound. This will make it opposite of what it was. It shouldnt harm the action and is probably the easiest thing you could try. If it doesnt help you could put it back without any harm.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Sonny.Barile

[Lure--Prof]

Ben,

I considered where you fish, and what you're fishing for when I advised the 2 larger hooks deal. I fish very similar conditions cover-wise, where you can't let a fish have its head (at least at first) or she'll immediately bury you. I personally don't like double hooks on jerk baits or surface baits either, for the same reason you don't like the weedless ones; double hooks belong on blade baits I think.

Dean

[RayburnGuy]

Your thinking and mine are pretty close Dean. Guess it comes from where I fish and the fact that I've lost quite a few big fish on smaller tackle. I've had quite a few of my friends give me the dickens about using the heavy gear that I use, but I've made a couple of them eat their words when I carry them to some of the spots I fish and they try to finesse one of those big girls out of a jungle. Then it's my turn to rag on them. And buddy let me tell you. I pour it on.

later bud,

Ben

[blazt*]

I've had quite a few of my friends give me the dickens about using the heavy gear that I use, but I've made a couple of them eat their words when I carry them to some of the spots I fish and they try to finesse one of those big girls out of a jungle. Then it's my turn to rag on them. And buddy let me tell you. I pour it on.

later bud,

Ben

You call those people friends? The next time a stranger tries to make eye contact or start a conversation, ask to see his rod collection right off the bat. If you see more than 2 medium (translation: ultralight) trigger sticks in there, kick 'em in the sack and run. It's the best policy. Smallmouth anglers are exempt.

Guys with too many rods like that in the locker (I've never owned one) wouldn't know a good hole if they drowned in it, and when you take them to yours you can see that look on their face out of the corner of your eye as you eyeball the big laydown with the stump under it- "Are we still in Kansas? Where am I supposed to cast?"

Some people just don't feel right about your particular fishing style. It has a name. BASS FISHIN'!

[Sonny.Barile]

Should I wear a sack protector (aka "cup") because I have two rods on my boat? LOL

[mark poulson]

Baltz,

I guess us SoCal guys, who fish clear, pressured water with lighter line, better stay away from you.

[blazt*]

Don't make eye contact.

I WAS going to "exempt" all the canyon and slot reservoir guys...figured it'd ruin the joke.

You're not going to let 40 ft of gin get between you and a flippin' target, are ya?

[mark poulson]

Hahaha

That much gin would drive anyone to drink!

[Nathan]

Hey Ben,

Have tried putting a 3-4" piece of clear soda straw on your line? I've had some success with this...it holds the line away from the trebbles and doesn't seem to effect the lure or fish...Nathan

[RayburnGuy]

Hey Ben,

Have tried putting a 3-4" piece of clear soda straw on your line? I've had some success with this...it holds the line away from the trebbles and doesn't seem to effect the lure or fish...Nathan

Never thought of that Nathan. I'm in the process of building another of the gliders with the front hook moved back about 3/8" and if that doesn't work I'll give your way a try.

thanks,

Ben

Edited December 8, 2011 by RayburnGuy

[RayburnGuy]

I've built two new baits since starting this thread. One of them I moved the front hook eye back about 3/8" and the other one I placed a 1/4" X 1/16" round neodymium magnet behind the front hook hanger to hold the hook up against the belly. As soon as I can fish them I will let you know how they work out.

Thanks again everyone for your help. If these don't work I will be trying some of the other suggestions.

Ben