Clint M Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Well im gonna piss some people off right now, but im for some form of conservation on every body of water. I think most lakes are way overfished. I think all lakes should be shut down during the spawn. No tournaments whatsoever. I think that during the hottest summer months in my state no tournaments should be allowed. Way too many dead fish at the weigh ins. Even night tournaments. Any given month on my home lake their will be at least 12-16 tournaments. Here is the kicker though. Noone knows the middle ground. Game and fish agencies go overboard one way, and we go overboard the other way. There needs to be a happy medium. Oh and I also think that God put us on this earth in charge of the beasts, fish, and fowl so we need to do our very best at looking after them. Not exploit them for financial gain or because we gotta feed that competitive itch. I love fishing tournaments. Eventually though we gotta start being our own conservationists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent R Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Well im gonna piss some people off right now, but im for some form of conservation on every body of water. I think most lakes are way overfished. I think all lakes should be shut down during the spawn. No tournaments whatsoever. I think that during the hottest summer months in my state no tournaments should be allowed. Way too many dead fish at the weigh ins. Even night tournaments. Any given month on my home lake their will be at least 12-16 tournaments. Here is the kicker though. Noone knows the middle ground. Game and fish agencies go overboard one way, and we go overboard the other way. There needs to be a happy medium. Oh and I also think that God put us on this earth in charge of the beasts, fish, and fowl so we need to do our very best at looking after them. Not exploit them for financial gain or because we gotta feed that competitive itch. I love fishing tournaments. Eventually though we gotta start being our own conservationists. Well said..............I love to fish for the fun of it...and i love to fish tournaments...but we have to look out for mother nature..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Well im gonna piss some people off right now, but im for some form of conservation on every body of water. I think most lakes are way overfished. I think all lakes should be shut down during the spawn. No tournaments whatsoever. I think that during the hottest summer months in my state no tournaments should be allowed. Way too many dead fish at the weigh ins. Even night tournaments. Any given month on my home lake their will be at least 12-16 tournaments. Here is the kicker though. Noone knows the middle ground. Game and fish agencies go overboard one way, and we go overboard the other way. There needs to be a happy medium. Oh and I also think that God put us on this earth in charge of the beasts, fish, and fowl so we need to do our very best at looking after them. Not exploit them for financial gain or because we gotta feed that competitive itch. I love fishing tournaments. Eventually though we gotta start being our own conservationists. Off course many people would see point in your statements about closing times and preserveration areas , I do as well . All of this we already have over here in Germany , but our opponents never seize their verbal shooting on us , that's a fact , ....period . Just recently some first class fishing spots along the river "Elbe" here in Hamburg/Germany were switched into natural preservation areas by the authority for environmental questions, ...no fishing allowed anymore . Anglers know about these areas , as they are indicated in the fishing licenses , .........hikers , swimmers , paddlers , party folks and people walking their dogs usually don't know and often also don't bother much about the few indication signs . Just mean to say , that most likely all preservation activities are restricting hunters , anglers , fishermen and also farmers almost exclusively(others just don't know or even bother) , .........but at least the latter two are usually receiving monetary compensations . We anglers know , what we are doing for conservation at our fishing clubs waters , the wide public does not notice this , they only see us to be putting hooks into defenseless creatures and/or kill them for fun . And when it comes to big business or popular public building projects , there will always be a way to shut down natural preservation areas for this , .......very popular is to find a substitute patch of land or water to render into a new preservation area , .......certainly not caring about any farmers , fishermen or hunters that have been doing their activities on that spot before . greetz , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint M Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Yeah but we have a democracy in the U.S. Its our own fault if our streams and such get shut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Yeah but we have a democracy in the U.S. Its our own fault if our streams and such get shut down. So do we have over here(personally I'd rather name it a " legislative period dictatorship"), ..........but such topics like this one are of minor interest to public and politicians , ..........and I reckon that far most electors would not hang their votes on it , ..........just for example , .......would you vote for any extreme anti-democratic party , no matter what left or right wing , if only they would promise to give you better possibilities and options for fishing ? Bet you would rather think about what in your opinion would be best for the welfare of the country , state and society you live in , because this would surely be more important to you than just an improvement or the preservation of leisure time activities ? Don't think , that politicians would even bother about a few fishermen's votes to loose or to win , ........at least not over here ! When federal parliament or state parliament elections are taking place over here in Germany , a popular local angling site requests general statements about the opinions on fishing from all great political parties , ........these statements are most likely all sounding positive for angler's demands(even the ones of the Greens) , ...........but obviously we're still getting butt-kicked time and time again ! greetz , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sallystrothers Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 And i'll bet the money you spend at Walmart is being used to fund the groups that are trying to stop us from fishing....just a thought.... I talking to a friend of mine today that is a boss at walmart.....he told me that the sporting goods department is the only department that doesn't make a profit......they go by the amount of square foot of sales space......who would have thunk it.... Blame the federal government for imposing a 10% excise tax on all sporting goods equipment. I bet the margin on most goods at walmart is less than 10%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 The body of water I chose to fight for was the Pacific West Coast of California. I was not alone in the fight as tens of thousands of fellow anglers in California stood up to fight. We were treated so unfairly through out the entire process that it was obvious that our opinions meant nothing. Corruption was obvious and there were clearly serious conflicts of interest taking place on the side of our opposition. All we asked for was a process that was fair but what we learned is the entire democratic process that we have been taught to believe in had sold out to special interest. I used to believe in democracy and I still do but what we have now is far from it. The democracy we have now is manipulated and controlled by 1% of the population and acts on their best interest in all matters. The rest of the people who make up 99% of the people are secondary. The majority of the people in the state were against the initiatives but all decision makers were appointed by officials who received contributions from non profit organizations which were largely funded by big business and oil. In return elected officials placed decision makers who favored the opposition and largely ignored the concerns of the public. Even when challenged in court our case fate was decided by a technicality which we lost. Now the case is in court of appeals and it will be another year before we are heard again. Sure the elected officials who were responsible were not re-elected. The Governator didn't bother to run for another term amid wide spread claims of corruption. He is a liar and a crook who should have stuck to body building and movie making. Politicians will say anything to get elected but once they are in office they will do anything to get paid regardless of public opinion. If we want to fix the government then we need a complete disconnect from government officials and special interests. If there is any monetary connection a politician and a special interest group there should be a full investigation and if confirmed the individual should be removed from office. This would restore democracy in this country and return power to the hands of the voters. There was a time when the people of this country had that power but that time is gone and until accountability is restored I don't see the problem improving in fact it will only get worse. Jerryg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) The body of water I chose to fight for was the Pacific West Coast of California. I was not alone in the fight as tens of thousands of fellow anglers in California stood up to fight. We were treated so unfairly through out the entire process that it was obvious that our opinions meant nothing. Corruption was obvious and there were clearly serious conflicts of interest taking place on the side of our opposition. All we asked for was a process that was fair but what we learned is the entire democratic process that we have been taught to believe in had sold out to special interest. I used to believe in democracy and I still do but what we have now is far from it. The democracy we have now is manipulated and controlled by 1% of the population and acts on their best interest in all matters. The rest of the people who make up 99% of the people are secondary. The majority of the people in the state were against the initiatives but all decision makers were appointed by officials who received contributions from non profit organizations which were largely funded by big business and oil. In return elected officials placed decision makers who favored the opposition and largely ignored the concerns of the public. Even when challenged in court our case fate was decided by a technicality which we lost. Now the case is in court of appeals and it will be another year before we are heard again. Sure the elected officials who were responsible were not re-elected. The Governator didn't bother to run for another term amid wide spread claims of corruption. He is a liar and a crook who should have stuck to body building and movie making. Politicians will say anything to get elected but once they are in office they will do anything to get paid regardless of public opinion. If we want to fix the government then we need a complete disconnect from government officials and special interests. If there is any monetary connection a politician and a special interest group there should be a full investigation and if confirmed the individual should be removed from office. This would restore democracy in this country and return power to the hands of the voters. There was a time when the people of this country had that power but that time is gone and until accountability is restored I don't see the problem improving in fact it will only get worse. Jerryg Apart from certain locations , persons and special conditions this sounds pretty much familiar to me and describes the situation pretty well (also over here), ....I can fully second to it ! greetz , diemai Edited December 29, 2011 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I have to deal with a small scale version of this in my backyard. We have a local public duck pond that is walking distance from the house. I can see it from my porch. Most of my 42 years I have fished this pond from time to time. If the weather is warm someone would always have a line in this pond. Until recently, a new city ordinance was passed only allowing those 18 and under and 65 and older to fish. I have hardly noticed anyone fishing this pond anymore. Really pissed me off to know I am paying taxes to keep up a pond I can't even fish for the next 20 + years. This past summer I took my four and five year old over to to do a little fishing with their cousins. To my surprise, the first fish we caught that morning was a five pound largemouth on a texas rigged worm. The next one was over three pounds. Went back the following day and another monster over five pounds was caught by my three year old (with a little help from dad of course). Fishing was pretty pathetic at the pond before the ordinance but still don't agree with ban on tax paying fisherman. Littleriver Here is one of the cousins with the first fish we caught. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint M Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Just my point exactly. We should make our government listen to us. Trust me, if a queer can show out enough to get em to change the constitution, a bunch of good ol boys can keep them from taking our fishing waters. We need to make a little more noise, and when its time to load up and go make a scene about it, we all need to ban together and get it done. We bitch and complain about everything, but i promise when it gets down to the nutcutting most people wont put forth the effort or inconvenience themselves to fight for something worthy. Been through a situation of a major magnitude and everyone pussed out, and left me stranded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I have to deal with a small scale version of this in my backyard. We have a local public duck pond that is walking distance from the house. I can see it from my porch. Most of my 42 years I have fished this pond from time to time. If the weather is warm someone would always have a line in this pond. Until recently, a new city ordinance was passed only allowing those 18 and under and 65 and older to fish. I have hardly noticed anyone fishing this pond anymore. Really pissed me off to know I am paying taxes to keep up a pond I can't even fish for the next 20 + years. This past summer I took my four and five year old over to to do a little fishing with their cousins. To my surprise, the first fish we caught that morning was a five pound largemouth on a texas rigged worm. The next one was over three pounds. Went back the following day and another monster over five pounds was caught by my three year old (with a little help from dad of course). Fishing was pretty pathetic at the pond before the ordinance but still don't agree with ban on tax paying fisherman. Littleriver Here is one of the cousins with the first fish we caught. This is exactly the authorities' "salami" tactics , that I've mentioned in one of my previous posts , .....pretty much used to it over here as well , .....we have a small slow current river in Hamburg , half way covered with lily pady during summer , .......it was a paradise for fishermen fishing for non-predatory species like roach , rudd , tench , carp , etc. with float set-ups , .....you could always see anglers sitting on it's banks , in particular older folks , as the small river is easily accessible parking aside the street leading along the dykes following the river bank . Quite a few years ago the authorities have rendered the area into a natural preservation area , ...fishing still allowed , BUT , .....any CHUMMING FORBIDDEN now ! As chumming is essential for this fishing method(at least , if you wanna catch some fish) , one hardly sees any anglers there anymore , ...only a few lure casters during fall season and some eel anglers during summer nights ! Vic , ........I can still understand this local chumming restriction , as it improves the water quality , but the above mentioned age limit in your place is hard to follow , ............even over here I haven't heard of such before ! greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 This would restore democracy in this country and return power to the hands of the voters. There was a time when the people of this country had that power but that time is gone and until accountability is restored I don't see the problem improving in fact it will only get worse. Jerryg Jerry it's my opinion that the power is still in the hands of the voters. After all we're the ones electing them into office. The problem, as I see it, is that there are way to many people that cast their vote for the politician who promises them the biggest handout instead of the one who will do the most good for our state/country. There are vast numbers of people who make their decision on who to vote for by doing nothing more than watching a few political adds on TV. Too many people don't bother with doing any research on the politicians who will ultimately run things in this country. And until this stops and people start taking more responsibility for whom they elect then things aren't going to change anytime soon. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Apart from certain locations , persons and special conditions this sounds pretty much familiar to me and describes the situation pretty well (also over here), ....I can fully second to it ! greetz , diemai Thanks for your support Diemai. Again I wish there was something that could be done to better the situation in your area. It sounds like you have very few options. I will do all I can to try to avoid a similar situation from taking place here in this country. Only time will tell but we are not going down with out a hard fight. JerryG Just my point exactly. We should make our government listen to us. Trust me, if a queer can show out enough to get em to change the constitution, a bunch of good ol boys can keep them from taking our fishing waters. We need to make a little more noise, and when its time to load up and go make a scene about it, we all need to ban together and get it done. We bitch and complain about everything, but i promise when it gets down to the nutcutting most people wont put forth the effort or inconvenience themselves to fight for something worthy. Been through a situation of a major magnitude and everyone pussed out, and left me stranded. Just my point exactly. We should make our government listen to us. Trust me, if a queer can show out enough to get em to change the constitution, a bunch of good ol boys can keep them from taking our fishing waters. We need to make a little more noise, and when its time to load up and go make a scene about it, we all need to ban together and get it done. We bitch and complain about everything, but i promise when it gets down to the nutcutting most people wont put forth the effort or inconvenience themselves to fight for something worthy. Been through a situation of a major magnitude and everyone pussed out, and left me stranded. I am with you and ready to lead this charge. I refuse to give up my liberties, my freedom, and my tradition. As others have mentioned I support conservation and feel the need to further reduce the number of fish that can be taken. In fact I have been an advocate of this for years and I would applaud tighter limits. I also would have strongly supported catch and release with in restricted areas. However to loose the right to fish large areas of the coast line entirely and to go as far as to exclude activities such as boating, walking, and swimming while allowing residents to remain on these same beaches and the development of new housing to take place is just out right wrong. These are the very liberties we not only as Anglers but as the Citizens of this country that we must take a stand to defend. Consider those who throughout history fought so we could enjoy the lands and liberties we have today. Consider those who gave their lives for their right to freedom not just for themselves but for future generations. We need to pick up this fight and defend our rights not just for ourselves but for generations to come. We may not be fighting on a battle field but we at war against an enemy driven by corporate greed and power. What we are fighting for is the foundation for which this country was built upon. We need to educate Anglers (people) across the country of what's going on and we need to all pull together. This thread has a lot of very valuable information and l wish we could share it more of the fishing community. JerryG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Dieter, I am thinking a retiree wasn't catching as many fish as he would like so he came up with this. I hope it wasn't a fellow fisherman but would not be surprised. It takes someone with time on their hands to write up and propose this sort of thing to the board. You never know what will be proposed and accepted as law next. I learned some time ago just because it is the law does not make it right. Infact, sometimes you may have to break the law and create a little attention to show exactly how absurd it is to get it changed. Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Dieter, I am thinking a retiree wasn't catching as many fish as he would like so he came up with this. I hope it wasn't a fellow fisherman but would not be surprised. It takes someone with time on their hands to write up and propose this sort of thing to the board. You never know what will be proposed and accepted as law next. I learned some time ago just because it is the law does not make it right. Infact, sometimes you may have to break the law and create a little attention to show exactly how absurd it is to get it changed. Vic Yeah , Vic , ...this fish-catching jealousy thing was often assumed to be the cause of stupid fishing club restrictions over here as well , .......new and successful methods are just restricted by the most likely elderly chairmen , because they don't practise these fishing tactics for themselves . And over here we are violating the restrictions every time that we release a legal sized fish , .......because if we would obey , our natural stocks would be entirely through ! Just read in a local paper , that in LA/California a popular vote is to be held in summer , ........ there is a descision required whether male actors in LA made porn movies should be restricted to wear condoms on the job or not . Anti-aids activists had collected the 70.000 signatures neccessary to make that referendum possible . Now this is absolutely important for a functional democracy , isn't it ? Sorry about my little sarcasm , but when I read this having my lunch today, I've just thought about the discussion in here ! greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Dieter said, "Just read in a local paper , that in LA/California a popular vote is to be held in summer , ........ there is a descision required whether male actors in LA made porn movies should be restricted to wear condoms on the job or not . Anti-aids activists had collected the 70.000 signatures neccessary to make that referendum possible . Now this is absolutely important for a functional democracy , isn't it ?" They should extend that condom requirement to all politicians, since they are F'ing the public every day. Our Supreme Court has pretty much insured that big money will prevail by ruling that political contributions by corporations and unions are free speech, and protected by the First Amendment. Funny, I read our Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and can't find any mention of corporations or unions as being any part of "We, The People". So now it's one dollar, one vote, and the ones with the most dollars buys the candidates they want. Most of us hold our noses when we vote, because it's almost always a choice between the lesser of two evils, instead of outright support for a particular candidate. All the candidates on the ballot have had to raise so much money to get there, they are bought and paid for by special interests before they're even elected. But my kids are more activist than I, and think they can make a difference. I hope they're right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint M Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'll be back on CNN before long, but oh well. Make my fish picture popular again. Love the comments diemai. On board with Mark as well. It all boils down to lobbyists and money. I promise if you track any of these regulations or laws you will find the culprit somewhere is monetary gain. Thats what weve come to in this country. Our governments state and federal are filled with high priced whores. I dont mean the kind you call in for. Im talking about the version that would sell their soul for a few bucks, and thats exactly what they do. If the men and women of this country would stop voting in these scumbags we might have a small chance. Look at Tim Tebow. You cant be christian or conservative without getting your head torn off. We should all call for the job of Bill Maher. Just seems like throwing a small stone in a big lake. Not enough waves. Good luck to you all. I will fight till my dying breath. Im on board for the charge. Its time David took on ol Goliath again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) That is a good one Dieter. Now I suppose this will only effect California right? I won't have to change my filming habits here in Tennessee. I wonder will bareback films will be legal for sale in Cali. I guess if you want to protect the masses from aids might as well start with porn stars right? Seems like a logical first move . Next ,everyone will be required to wear one. We have another battle here that is an assault on the public in my opinion. Slowly traffic enforcement cameras are slipping onto our intersections. Their sole purpose is to fleece the public, sorry, to protect the public. Seems everyone in the state who drives has been issued failure to stop on red citation while making a slow right turn, including moi. This summer our legislators had the decency ( after much hell raising) to pass a law stopping the companies who run these cameras from issuing citations for this particular violation. Now the state is being sued for breech of contract. Seems the greedy are not making as much money as they expected. I think an all out ban nationwide is in order here. Edited December 30, 2011 by littleriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I heard the news about the law that would make it mandatory for male porn actors to wear condoms for all productions moving forward made in California. Just another set back for Californians. As long as adult entertainers are screened for STDs and given a clean bill of health then I say let them do their job. I doubt that those backing this initiative even watch porn and most likely strictly limit sexual intercourse to the sole purpose of procreation if even that. In all Seriousness though this law will be very effective in pushing all adult entertainment productions and the jobs go along them out of the State California. In other news I dug up more information on Catch Shares which the Walmart Family is trying gain control over. The other articles explained how they are trying gain control but I found this link in one of the articles which explains why Catch Shares cause economic destruction to commercial fishing communities, how Catch Shares fail to sustain the health of our fisheries and fail achieve legal standards for fishery management. Well worth the read. I hope this is not the direction our fisheries are headed if they are not there already. http://documents.foo...rg/Fish-Inc.pdf JerryG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Jerry, From the read it sounds like a bad idea. This statement Proponents of catch shares claim they are the best solution to profitably, safely and sustainably manage our fisheries. In this report, Food & Water Watch examines these claims and finds them all wanting. alone is enough for me. If their argument is to raise funds, then they are sadly mistaken. Our government first priority should be people based first. What is the best thing for the citizen. Not how much money can we raise. Until we become a people based society and not money, we are doomed to fail our people. I see why walmart would want to buy these catch shares. They could conceivably control the us fish market. From the catch to store. I am sure they are doing this to bring us lower prices right? If you buy that I have some ocean front here in TN for you. What happens next is the fish will then go to the highest bidder. Before long, we will not be able to afford to buy the fish caught off our own shores. It all starts with these "catch shares". "Nip it in the bud", as Barney Five would say; now, while we can. Littleriver Edited December 31, 2011 by littleriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Catch shares.....Carbon credits......whats next? Air tax?????? Oops...I better not say that too loud, it may give them ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Catch shares.....Carbon credits......whats next? Air tax?????? Oops...I better not say that too loud, it may give them ideas. Over here in Germany , fishing affairs are in the hands of the single states , .......every holder of a federal fishing license must pay an annual fishing fee to his local authorities to be allowed to fish at all , added costs are memberships in fishing clubs(to access their waters) and/or costs for allowance licenses for certain waters , ...the latter are the far larger costs so far , anyway . Hardly any waters are free off an extra charge apart from the federal license , only very few exeptions around like f. e. the harbor area of the city of Hamburg or the Baltic Sea shoreline of my homestate . Up to now the federal fishing license is accepted nationwide , meaning one could also use it in others but the own homestate to obtain the required special allowances or membership in fishing clubs . But now my own homestate demands the annual fishing fee from anglers living in other states , but willing to fish local waters , as well ! This restriction might not yet find grip in 2012 , but surely will in future , .......as a result ALL of our states might collect that fee from fishermen living in other states but fishing local waters . Our homestate's government probably thinks , that this would be another source of income , as they mainly live on tourism and agriculture , also plenty anglers from the city of Hamburg fish our local waters and would have to pay extra then . And if this new system would turn out to pay off for the state , other states would surely chime in , ..........I have fishing club memberships in three states and frequently fish on the territory of four states , ............looks like my passion would become more costly in future ? BTW , .......this annual fishing fee is supposed to be used for fishery affairs like increasing stocks or building fish passes , etc. , exclusively , ...........similar to the federal excise tax you have to pay on fishing items over there in the States , .........but in the past there have been lawsuits against our local state government , because they wanted to use the fishermen's money for entirely different purposes , .........they've lost , naturally ! And as far as for taxes , .......in Germany we have a tax on champagne and sparkling wine , a certain share of each bottle's shop price goes to the federal ministry of finance straight away , ..........this particular tax was raised by the German emperor William the Second during the very early 20th century , ......his purpose was to raise funds to build up a fleet for Imperial Germany to play a bigger role in the dangerous international game of power of the time . Well , .......his fleet rusts away on the bottom of the sea at Scapa Flow now , .......political systems have changed a few times since , thank God from evil to good(or should I just say better ?) , .........but the emperor's tax still prevails into our present times , .........funny , isn't it ? greetz , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 The sad part my friend, is that someday they will want to dredge all of that out of the water, and they will make you pay to do that too.....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 The sad part my friend, is that someday they will want to dredge all of that out of the water, and they will make you pay to do that too.....LOL ...........one should really expect that , Sonny , ........but in this case at least two generations of Scottish ironmonger's families were able to make a living on the parts of the fleet that they could get hold of , ........only some wrecks are still resting at the bottom of the sea . It's been said that the steel of the emperor's battleships was very well-suited for making surgical instruments , ....far better use , I'd say ! greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted January 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thats ironic ......I design surgical instruments for a living. Happy New Year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
