djs Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) I have used all of there plastisols (injectasol,pourasol,ultrasol, gel-a-lure) in the medium and all of them micro bubble during heating. I use a presto pot and heat very slow (not the gel-a-lure)and the only way the bubbles clear up is to keep heating at about 325 for a long time to the point of degrading the pvc resins. I only stir the containers never shake with a metal rod and let them sit before using them. I do not use salt and it does not matter if I stir during heating or not. The plastisol will expand in size from the bubbles then fall. I emailed them three weeks ago with no response and almost ready to give up with there products. Has anyone had the same problem ? Edited December 11, 2011 by djs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 DJS, I don't quite understand what you're talking about. I understand the microbubble trouble that some people have had with Lureworks, but exactly what do you mean by "degrading PVC resin"? Does your pot pour from the bottom? I heat this plastisol all the time in a Lee pot and yes if I do heat it real fast then I do get the bubbles too, but they are bubbles, full of air, that float to the top, which I can easily take a spoon and dip off. But I usually don't since my Lee pot pours from the bottom. Now if I stir them up and incorporate them throughout the plastic, then yes I would have the same problem you're having. And if you're only using 325 degrees to heat your material, then there should be no degrading whatsoever. For 325 degrees is about the minimum of heat you need for the plastisol to form correctly. Since this microbubble thing came up a while back, I've done a lot of experimenting and I've about figured out that this material is not made for speed heating in open containers of any type. But you're the first person I know of that's having trouble from a Presto Pot. If you're using your agitator, leave your agitator off while your material is heating. You can stir it occaisionally by hand until you get heated up. Then skim your bubbles off the top and turn on your agitator. But I would really like to know what you mean by degrading. If you're talking about your plastic yellowing, then you need to check the actual temperature of your plastic. I've never seen plastic yellow at 325 degrees. Just because the dial is set on 325 does not mean that the plastic itself is 325 degrees. Most pots if working by a thermostat, or a thermocoupling, will call for the pot to turn on wide open until it reaches a point of 325 degrees. Maybe you need to start off with your temperature lower and gradually turn it up after a few minutes goes by. Lureworks plastisol is a very good plastisol especially for the money, But it does not do well under speed heating. I also sell a lot of runners, they are all Lureworks plastisol that has not been de-aired. And I've never had a complaint about microbubbles in them. But when I do heat up fast in the microwave, after I let the container sit for a few minutes, the bubbles are always at the top because they are full of air and are easily skimmed off. I know of a couple of people that are bulk heating in the microwave, letting the material set up and then reheating. They seem to be having very good success doing it this way. If I were you, I would put my colored plastisol in my Presto pot, and when it's ready to pour, then add the rest of your components (flake and salt). Then turn on the agitator. You should see a whole lot better results. If none of this works, PM me, I think I can help you work through this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largehead Louie Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Personally, I love the Lureworks Plastsols. I use the Pourasol Medium EXCLUSIVELY. Yes, there are microbubbles if heating too fast, or over stirring. I might point out that I ONLY microwave my pourasol (I don't even own a presto or Lee Pot.) NEVER have I seen it degrade, and I have NO CLUE what temp I'm getting the plastic up to, because I don't own an infrared thermometer. I heat until it looks right, and stirs right. Never had any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubeman Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I just received both the hard and soft formulas of Pourasol today and tested them both in the microwave on a setting I would normally use for Calhoun plastisol ( half power or 50%) and I too got many micro bubbles. The soft seemed easier to get them out by re-heating and stirring, but the hard was almost impossible to clear out as it degraded (turned a brown hue) due to over heating. I am debating whether switching is a good idea ? Calhoun is easier to use but the pricing is getting out of hand, so I am looking for a plastisol in the same price range with a drier touch and the same ease of use...skimming micro bubbles when I cook 4 gallons at a time for tubes is not the direction I'm looking to move in. If I could figure out a way to eliminate those bubbles, Pourasol would be a good choice...but how much less power do you need to cook the plastisol at in a microwave ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bribass Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) yea, ive been thinking the same thing.... when i used pourasol i got a ton of micro bubbles as well. Was really hoping for a great plastic since ive heard such positive things about it Im in the exact same boat as you Tubeman.. not im not sure if i should switch to it And how do you do 4 gallons at a time?? Edited December 17, 2011 by bribass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 yea, ive been thinking the same thing.... when i used pourasol i got a ton of micro bubbles as well. Was really hoping for a great plastic since ive heard such positive things about it Im in the exact same boat as you Tubeman.. not im not sure if i should switch to it And how do you do 4 gallons at a time?? with the right pots LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bribass Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 with the right pots LOL Thanks for the super insightful and helpful comment you made! Really added to the topic! You mind helping even further and telling me where you may purchase a pot like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thanks for the super insightful and helpful comment you made! Really added to the topic! You mind helping even further and telling me where you may purchase a pot like that? I have one that will heat 4 gallons but I cant get it in the microwave. It is a ritehete pot, I use it for remelts from larger runs. I have been using Spikeit for a few customers they like the feel of it. It does bubble and I have learned to just leave it and let them rise. But pouring off that top might be an issue. I inject and fill from the bottom so it is not an issue. In my opinion cooking off the bubbles make it worse, let it set a bit and they seem to gather on the sides and just pull it off and reheat the bubbles. This only happens to me on the first heating, reheats are not the same they are just fine. Every plastic has its own personality and you just have to find what works for you. The end results is great looking baits how you get there is up to you and the products you use.Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thanks for the super insightful and helpful comment you made! Really added to the topic! You mind helping even further and telling me where you may purchase a pot like that? no need to get all up tight buddy, but frank has it, Riteheat makes some, and there is a couple others out there that dont come to mind. but these arent the cheap pots though, expect to pay for what you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bribass Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 cool, thanks for the info frank, never heard of them before ill check it out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubeman Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Frank, can you agitate the bubbles out in the pot ? I've found that there where some batches of Calhoun that did bubble in the microwave a little, but they dissipated when I had the plastic in the hot pot being stirred for 10 -15 min. I'm wondering if I bringing the LW plastisol to a gel state and then putting it in the hot pot will help the bubbling issue. For tube dipping, this is the only way I can think to resolve the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 I think if you are dipping off the top you will continue to have this issue. If it bubbles they rise to the top and if you are dipping they want to kling to what you dip. Trying to save money sometime causes new chalenges to over come. Seems to me the less you pay for plastic the more challenges there are but if you find a way to make it work great. There are some plastics that dont have this when you heat but they are not near this price range. One thing I will tell you it works GREAT in the Jacobs injection press. With the pressure and pouring from the bottom not an issue at all. I dont even wait for the bubbles to rise, I just pour it in and start shotting. Even the hard shoots great even with small apendages in the mold. As for agitating the bubbles out, I dont I just then rise. The more I mess with it, the longer it takes to rise. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubeman Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Shot 800 sticks yesterday with the LW plastisol and I was impressed. It took some time to understand how to cook it, but once the micro bubbles are stirred out it sets up really nice. Best working temp seemed to be around 280 as it kept the salt suspended really well and hardly smoked. How long does this plastisol take to reach its full durometer (hardness) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I've been using the medium pourasol for a while now. I only microwave and yes it will bubble. I just let it set a few minutes skim off the top layer that has the bubbles reheat and pour away. Can't beat it for the price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djs Posted December 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I think I might have a solution. I took some of the injectasol and used a foodsaver with the attachments (for the lack of proper vacuum pump) to pull a vacuum on 1/2 cup before heating. The plastic formed a foam layer on top but would not break because there was not enough vacuum. I skimmed off the foam as best as I could then heated 1/4 cup in the microwave. There was almost no bubbles, very few. I vacuummed the other 1/4 cup before heating again several times and noticed what looked like some water beads floating on top. I skimmed them off as best as I could and while heating noticed that the plastic popped as if I had water in it. Not sure what was in the plastisol but I might get a vacuum pump if one can be found cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I think I might have a solution. I took some of the injectasol and used a foodsaver with the attachments (for the lack of proper vacuum pump) to pull a vacuum on 1/2 cup before heating. The plastic formed a foam layer on top but would not break because there was not enough vacuum. I skimmed off the foam as best as I could then heated 1/4 cup in the microwave. There was almost no bubbles, very few. I vacuummed the other 1/4 cup before heating again several times and noticed what looked like some water beads floating on top. I skimmed them off as best as I could and while heating noticed that the plastic popped as if I had water in it. Not sure what was in the plastisol but I might get a vacuum pump if one can be found cheap. If you have an air compressor you can get one from harbor freight for less than 20 bucks. It is used for air conditioners in autos. It will get to 30 pounds of vacuum. Good job something to try this weekend. Frank http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Make sure you have a line dryer especially if your in humid conditions as you may be adding moisture to your plastic at least make sure you drain your tank regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 The vacuum pump does not work like that. It achives it vacuun by the air passing by an opening. Kind of a T in the line. Pretty simple thus the reason for the low price. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
