mark poulson Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 This was posted on Western Bass. It's great to hear what someone who is one of, if not the best bass fisherman of all time has to say about spinnerbaits. http://www.westernbass.com/dotcom/tv/videopage.html?id=0001040 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I like Rick Clunn but I have a hard time believeing anything he has to say anymore and I'll tell you why. I understand pros do change sponsors and so they need to promote their products but I heard him say at a seminar that graphite was the best thing to ever happen to fishing rods, since it has come out he only uses graphite rods, even for fishing crankbaits he will choose a graphite over glass everytime. Fast forward to 2011 and now all he uses is glass? He says glass fell out of favor with manufacturers, not anglers and he always had glass rods and now he has his own signature series from W&M. And the same hypocrisy is done with crankbaits so I take anything he says with a grain of salt. If there is 1 pro I listen to is KVD, not because he is the best but look at the sponsors or the products he talks about, he says the same things year after year unlike others and this is a guuy that could have any sponsor he wanted to. Sorry for the rant, but Clunn who was once an angler I really respected, is now going the way of Roland Martin, another guy who will say anything for a buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saugerman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Thanks for sharing that with TU,I thought it was interesting to hear what he had to say about spinnerbaits.Sometimes he gets a little out there,but you have to give him credit,he has won about any tittle out there. I do agree with smalljaw,people like Roland Martin and Bill Dance will advertise anything,it gets rediculious after a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I'm probably even more skeptical than smalljaw when it comes to pros and what they say. We all try to think of what the fish is doing, why they are reacting a certain way, at particular times. I'm no pro, and probably get it more wrong than right. From watching the video, what doesn't sit just right with me, is the rational around the water displacement. While sound travels fast underwater, water displacement (waves) travel very slow. I don't see how that can be drawing fish in over any distance. By time the "wave" gets to the fish, the spinnerbait is far from the location from where the wave was generated. Even a slow retrieve is faster than wave propagation. My guess would be, the particular blades are making a sound that the fish can triangulate on better than others. To me, water displacement, is something that comes into play in murky water when the fish is nearing or very close to the target. PS: Thanks for posting, and please don't take my ramblings as being negative for doing such. I just naturally disect whatever a pro says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I didn't post the video link as a Rick Clunn promotion. Just as an interesting take on spinnerbaits by someone who fishes, successfully, for a living. I didn't see him promoting his stuff in the video as the important part, just his views on water displacement. As for how fast water displacement waves travel in water, remember water does not compress, so any displacement will be transfered quickly. Sonar signals travel much faster in water than in air, because water is much more dense, and they are pressure waves, too. Pressure waves in water travel in the same way, because water does not compress. Anyone who has seen the damage depth charges do to submarines will testify to that. Surface waves are different than underwater pressure waves, and that's why distroyers dropping the depth charges aren't affected in the same way. Over the years, fishing with guys who threw willows and Colorado blades in my boat, I've found Indiana blades are much more effective than willows. I used to fish Colorado/willow tandem spinnerbaits, but, since I found Indiana blades years ago, I've switched to Colorado/Indiana, or willow/Indiana in clear, and have had good success. Hank Parker said that the Indiana has the flash of the willow, and the thump of the Colorado, and that's why he fishes them. And he didn't mention brand or manuf. Anyway, it was just something I thought would be interesting to watch, and I don't take anything said here as a personal attack. I know you all hate me! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Im sorry for being negative and Mark, I did appreciate the video posting. FuzzyGrub, when he talks about water displacement he is promoting his trickster spinnerbait, the only one with his "long drop" blade. Most of us here have been making tackle for at least a year, some longer others not so much, but one thing is certain, if water displacement was the real key to fishing spinnerbaits there would have been so many companies making a long drop blade it would be unreal but there isn't nor is the trickster even on the radar as being a great bait and it has been around a preety long time. He says there aren't any good spinnerbait fisherman left, well he is still living in the '70's as there are now crankbaits that dive deep, football jigs, drop shot rigs as well as other deep presentaions that work better than spinnerbaits in deep water. Don't get me wrong, spinnerbaits are my favorite bait and that is how I got started making my own tackle and after years of testing and refining my tactics with spinnerbaits I will tell you this, if you're fishing in clear water using a spinnerbait, the fish are going to hit that willowleaf blade a lot more than an indiana or colorado because they will see the flash long before they feel the thump, I've proven this to myself time and time again, Now fishing stained or murky water the opposite is true but I watched that video and what he was doing was basically an infomercial for his bait, cout how many times he hel it up. Why do you think he said the willow leaf blade is the wrong blade to fish while holding up his Trickster with the long drop blade? That was a subtle selling seminar were as Roland Martin is in your face advertising but make no mistake, to say KVD isn't a good spinnerbait fisherman because he uses willow blades is a telling point, think if you're in the audience listening to every word he says and you want to be regaded as a good spinnerbait fisherman, well according to Rick Clunn you need to stop using the willow leaf and pick up something like the long drop blade, after all, it is why he came up with it in the first place. That rant was the exact reason I lost respect for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Mark, Actually, I'm not doubting his success with any particular blade, just how that success sometimes gets rationalized. A spinnerbait is not going to produce a pressure wave. Water displacement does travel at the same speed as the wave on the surface. The wave/wake we see is the water displacement moving outward. Now, here is a typical observation I have had, that rationalizes the above. :0 Bass sitting there in shallow, clear water, oriented looking toward you. You cast way behind the fish and start retrieving it back, lets say it is a non noise maker lure, mostly water displacement. 9 times out of 10, the fish doesn't turn around, ie sensing the object coming toward it and prepare to ambush. Most of the time, it surprises the fish when it gets within its field of vision, and its first reaction is to move away (if close). Once it has moved to its "safe" distance turns, observes, and may re-engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I don't want to get in a pissing contest about waves. I'm no engineer, so I'm just going by what I've read, and what I've seen. Waves on the surface of the water move slowly, and can be affected by wind. Waves under the surface of the water move faster, because water is a much denser medium. That's why a sonar unit will read more depth when the transducer is out of the water and the sound is traveling through the air than when it's in the same depth, but in water. Air is not as dense as water, so the sonar ping travels through it more slowly. My kids used to tap on the glass of the aquarium, and the fish would all twitch, because the tap move almost instantaneously it seemed, because water transmitted the vibration so fast. It is almost like the string of balls suspended from an overhead dowel. When you drop one at one end, the one at the other end moves. Steel is more dense than water, so it transmits the energy of the first ball faster. But water is more dense than air, and the energy from a vibrating blade moves throught the water much faster than if it were in the air. I'm betting that the waves generated on the surface of water are very much dependent on surface tension and wind as to their speed. That's why sailors used to "pour oil on troubled waters", to slow the speed and power of the surface waves in choppy seas. How many times have you heard how talking in a boat doesn't affect the fish, but dropping something onto the deck does. It's because there is a direct transfer of the energy from whatever is dropped to the water, and that is transfered down to the fish, like a sonar ping, while the energy of talking is lost before it can transfer to the water. Like I said, I'm no engineer, but I did sleep in a Motel 6 last night. Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Mark, Actually, I'm not doubting his success with any particular blade, just how that success sometimes gets rationalized. A spinnerbait is not going to produce a pressure wave. Water displacement does travel at the same speed as the wave on the surface. The wave/wake we see is the water displacement moving outward. Now, here is a typical observation I have had, that rationalizes the above. :0 Bass sitting there in shallow, clear water, oriented looking toward you. You cast way behind the fish and start retrieving it back, lets say it is a non noise maker lure, mostly water displacement. 9 times out of 10, the fish doesn't turn around, ie sensing the object coming toward it and prepare to ambush. Most of the time, it surprises the fish when it gets within its field of vision, and its first reaction is to move away (if close). Once it has moved to its "safe" distance turns, observes, and may re-engage. Right ther FuzzyGrub is the hypocrisy in what he says in regards to selling lures!! When his RC line of bait from Lucky Craft came out and are now Luck E Strike, he had them done with no rattles and do you know why? He claims that the fish hear a bait with rattles far away and they will turn and inspect the bait which is what you really don't want the fish to do. But his baits without rattles sneak up on the fish and they get surprised and bite the bait out of pure reaction, now, if I'm to believe his water displacement theory then that fish should not be surprised so the reaction strike explanation goes out the window. Now, this is something I don't really care about, I just want to catch fish but Rick changes his theories based on the lure he is trying to sell and sometimes those threories contradict themselves. I could understand why he does this, he needs to make a living and right now all he really has is name recognition, he can still fish very well and he manages to make a few top 50 cuts every season but it isn't like it was in his prime but I would have a lot more respect if he came out and said," This is my new bait, it has all the elements to make fish bite such as detailed looks and rattles or no rattles and super sharp hooks etc and etc" . I guess I make to much of it but he really has gone from a great angler to product pimp and who ever gives him the best deal then that is where he goes andI said it before, that is great, he is making money but guys who have been around as long as Clunn remember things he said and learned from him listen to him now and think everything he said was true is now false, and that is the part that really bothers me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Mark. If there was something outside of soundwaves that travels as fast as you describe, and is generated by any moving object in the water, the military would have exploited that "wave" many years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACONBASS Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Clunn is just like 90% of the pro guys out there, he's making a living selling us fishing stuff. Hey it's how they make money. What we have to do is read between the lines and pick out the parts that work. I don't know the reason but I've caught more fish on Indiana blade set ups than any other. I would like to try some of my head and wire set ups with Clunn's long drop blades but I've never seen them offered at any of my blade sources. Does anyone know anywhere they are offered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenlures Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Of course this all depends on if the fish are biting or not............getting to deep for me, but interesting. Thanks guys for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Keep it up guys .. makes the "Gray Matter" activate ... Indiana Blades replaced my Colorado blades long time ago and have never been a fan of Willow Leaf ... Colorado in the big sizes for deep as well as muddy water have there place. Instead of Willow leaf in clear water I go to a smaller Indiana ... Intesting about the water displacement but I think it all comes into the "Vibration" ... ??? I all ways have better luck with light weight frames ... Vibration ?? Looking for more comments ... Example not mentioned much was color and how that relates to the illusion of size along with the type of material for skirt and what about the trailer ??? A lot of question and a lot of opinions .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I guess it's okay to disagree...see what I get for sharing my "porno" videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Clunn is just like 90% of the pro guys out there, he's making a living selling us fishing stuff. Hey it's how they make money. What we have to do is read between the lines and pick out the parts that work. I don't know the reason but I've caught more fish on Indiana blade set ups than any other. I would like to try some of my head and wire set ups with Clunn's long drop blades but I've never seen them offered at any of my blade sources. Does anyone know anywhere they are offered? A friend of mine has a couple of the trickster spinnerbaits he got in the bargin bin at BPS a few years back and they are good for one thing and that is slow rolling. It does exactly as Clunn says, and that is it creates a lot of torque, more than a colorado blade even because it is long and then instead of slowly rounding around like the colorado or indiana it is almost square in the back so it really grabs water. The downside is even a moderate retrieve will make the bait lay on its side no matter what size head, I think that is why it never coaught on. I make a double colorado on a 1/2oz spinnerbait using size #2 and #4 colorado blades for stained water and I made it so it gives off plenty of vibration yet you can still retrieve the bait at a normal speed. I make a single colorado that I use a #5 blade and that is for muddy water and a slow retrieve, it is a one trick pony and the long drop blade is in the same catagory. Contact Luck E Strike, they make the Trickster now and may sell you a few blades but nobody I have ever dealt with sells them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaze Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Guys this is really all very interesting. I personally think its all about vibrations which to my understanding is what the lateral line of a bass feels. I like the willow leaf blade for slow rolling and have never even thrown an Indiana blade. Worth makes a shallow cup willow leaf which swings/turns with a wider arc than a regular willow. I would assume that this would displace more water. I also have always thought that water displacement and vibrations are one and the same. Now I am confused. Vodkaman once replied to a post (I can't remember which one) about viibrations in regards to a bait that didn't have a lot of movement/vibrations, I think it was because of weight.. He said even though I didn't see the movement/displacement, the sonics (Vibrations ?) were there. It seems that several of you agree on the fish attracting attributes of the Indiana blade. I think I will try an Indiana blade, it might make my spinner bait go from a good little bait to a great little bait! My feelings about the pros, they have to make a living at what they do and they are obligated to promote their sponsors products. if not, most of them wouldn't be around too long. I am sure in the hands of any professional fisherman almost any lure will catch bass. Look at the recent enthusiasm surrounding the Alabama Rig (myself included) Can all of us get one take it out there and immediately start catching fish on it. I know that I can't, I tried. But a pro took it out there and won a big tournament on it and someone is now making a lot of money off of something that the average fisherman like me had never even heard of and don't know how to use. As I said they are obligated to promote their sponsors products. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I don't think that is hypocrisy, it what they get paid to do. Even if they catch most of their fish on secret/homemade baits, it won't be a secret too long. I guess I'm getting off subject a little here. Sorry for my ramblings. Mark, I do appreciate this post, it is eye opening. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Well, there is a ton of info on the web that can really make your head hurt. While it does say the that the lateral line detects movement in the water, there isn't a clear answer on how fast water movement probagates or how much distance it takes to diminish. I still get the impression that this is a sense for close in detection, not a long distance ranging and intercept. Let me know if you inderstand it better than I. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_line http://www.naturalmotionlures.com/bassarticles/doug/lateralline.php http://library.thinkquest.org/C0124402/data/html/2/2sensesoffish.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090828103932.htm http://www.disabled-world.com/disability/blogs/sixth-sense.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 So, what is the difference between a pro fishermen / sponsor relationship, vs a politician / lobbyist? ....The pro has non-disclosure agreement. Merry Christmas everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaze Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) Fuzzy, I think you hit the nail on the head. while I was writing my reply I was thinking the same thing. Merry Christmas everyone. John Edited December 24, 2011 by JBlaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I guess it's okay to disagree...see what I get for sharing my "porno" videos. Thanx for Sharen this one Mark ... JSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
