bbf Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 I usually rub my balsa baits with CA glue before I put any hardware in. The other day I built some baits and added my hardware without rubbing in the CA(brain lapse or ??? lol!). Will the wood strengthen around the hardware areas if I rub them down with CA now? By the way I use D2T for the hangers and line ties. Just curious if my hardware areas are at risk since I epoxied my hardware in before I CAed my baits. Thanks. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 No problem. CA doesn't penetrate that deep into the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 BobP, Does propionate soak into balsa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizza Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) The super glue (cyanoacrylate, CA, im guessing this is what you are referring to) i use (the cheap stuff like 6 or 8 tubes for a buck) soaks extremely well into wood, especially balsa. Much better than epoxy. This is the reason why i use it, instead of epoxy, to glue in my hook hangers. Never had even a hint of a problem with hangers pulling out. Youll probably be fine, but there is only one way to find out. Edited December 26, 2011 by pizza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Mark, penetration depends on what you use to dissolve it, I guess. I use acetone and have never had much luck trying to dissolve it in anything else. I've never cut a bait open to see how far into the balsa it penetrated, but it does adhere well. The downside is you need to use a thin solution and dip your lure 5-10 times to build up a good smooth film on the wood. If the prop is too thick, it will sag and leave ripples in the film. The upside is acetone evaporates very quickly, so 3-5 minutes between dips is plenty. A prop coating is not as hard as CA but has more "give". I think it works well on balsa and is quite cost-effective (if that matters). I've never used CA to coat baits. For one thing, I'm suspicious of its shock resistance but also think it's sort of pricey compared to epoxy or propionate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thanks guys for the responses. I might have to do a little investigating into how deep the ca penetrates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'm wondering about the advantage of an undercoating that penetrates as deep as possible into balsa. Great adhesion, yes. Toughness, yes. Penetrating balsa deeply and filling its air passages with a solid - ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizza Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I understand your point BobP. I use super glue to glue in my hook hangers (only rarely do i thru-wire). Although i have sealed bodies with super glue before, i usually do this with a few coats of thinned etex applied by finger. For gluing in hook hangers(especially in balsa) i prefer super glue over epoxy bc it is less viscous and absorbs better into the wood. Having said that, epoxy would probably work fine too for gluing in hangers(seems like this is what most use anyways, but not many comments when working with balsa) When working with balsa, i leave the hangers out a little extra (like a mm or so), then final coat with 4-5 layers of thinned epoxy to further add strength by building up material around the hanger/balsa interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg.p Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I understand your point BobP. I use super glue to glue in my hook hangers (only rarely do i thru-wire). Although i have sealed bodies with super glue before, i usually do this with a few coats of thinned etex applied by finger. For gluing in hook hangers(especially in balsa) i prefer super glue over epoxy bc it is less viscous and absorbs better into the wood. Having said that, epoxy would probably work fine too for gluing in hangers(seems like this is what most use anyways, but not many comments when working with balsa) When working with balsa, i leave the hangers out a little extra (like a mm or so), then final coat with 4-5 layers of thinned epoxy to further add strength by building up material around the hanger/balsa interface. hi, with the balsa are you threw wireing then glueing the harness with superglue rather than epoxy. that would work out cheeper for me as the devcon is £7.00 a tube over here. cheers greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I use epoxy to glue in my hangers, line tie, and ballast weight, never had a problem or failure. I seal the baits using a 2 step process, 1 coat of super glue then a coat of thinned epoxy. The super glue makes balsa wood very hard on the surface and the epoxy gives a smooth surface to paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg.p Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I use epoxy to glue in my hangers, line tie, and ballast weight, never had a problem or failure. I seal the baits using a 2 step process, 1 coat of super glue then a coat of thinned epoxy. The super glue makes balsa wood very hard on the surface and the epoxy gives a smooth surface to paint. ah, same as myself. except the epoxy it go's on last after painting. i just prime after the super glue. thanks for the reply. greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizza Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Out of 100+ or so baits I have built I have only thru wired 3. I just have not seen a need to thru wire as strength has never been an issue. I bend my hangers by hand using those "useless X tools brand plastic fishing pliers". I leave anywhere from 3mm (I've made cranks the size of mini fat raps) to over 1 cm in length when I cut the end of the twisted part of the hanger off. Then I glue with a drop or two of super glue about 3-4 times over a 3-4 days period. It absorbs real well and I sand off the rough surface with sandpaper. Sometimes I seal the lure before gluing in hangers/tie in (usually with thinned etex but I have also sealed with superglue), sometimes after, and sometimes I don't even bother sealing (this is typically when I work with basswood or mahongony). I end up coating with at least 3 final layers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf Posted January 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm wondering about the advantage of an undercoating that penetrates as deep as possible into balsa. Great adhesion, yes. Toughness, yes. Penetrating balsa deeply and filling its air passages with a solid - ??? I dont want the whole bait hard as a rock. I just like the hardness when CA is added(gives me a little extra piece of mind). I was just curious as to how deep the CA penetrated. Even with the thinnest CA it didnt sink in as deep as I figured it would. Everyone has there own tricks and build process. Thanks for the responses and info all you guys share. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizza Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 My guess is that you can get the CA to penetrate about 2 mm. This is based on firsthand experience coating with superglue then drilling hanger/tie in holes. Once the tip of the drill gets about 2 mm in, it takes off... Now i think it penetrates (better wording would be has the ability to penetrate) a little further when you glue in hangers but this has to do with grain orientation of the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizza Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Also my experience has not been with the "high density" balsa that is suggested, but rather the "whatever/less dense" balsa that hobby stores sell. Ive noticed that density of balsa in these hobby packs can vary tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Have any of you balsa builders tried the AZEK trimboard? I have been using their decking for years (thank you JRHopkins), but I recently tried their trimboard and was amazed! It's even more buoyant than the decking, but still strong and totally waterproof. It has cut sealing completely out of my lure building, and I never have to worry about water intrusion. I don't own stock in AZEK, and I'm not sponsored by them. I just found something to make my lure building easier and faster, and I think sharing stuff is what TU is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaze Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hey Mark, I have and I really like that stuff. It absolutely will not absorb water and eliminates one step in building a lure. Not sure about bouyancy but I feel that it is very close to poplar wood. It is easy to shape and sand. I am working on one right now. Right now it is so cold down here and in my un-insulated, unheated garage that I have not even placed the belly weight in it yet. I am trying to learn one of Littleriver's methods of painting so since I can't stand the cold, I jumped the gun and started painting on this one before it was really ready. One other thing that I found about this stuff, when I first started using it I was worried that with it being so slick that my hook hangers would pull out under a load. So I made two haywire twists 1 1/8 in long each. The second wire was inserted thru the loop of the first one before being twisted so that they were linked together. I then took two small pieces of the PVC drilled a hole in each piece and inserted the wires in the holes. I then applied thin CA glue to the wire where it entered the hole and let it set overnight. The next morning I tried pulling the wires out They wouldn't budge. We have a body builder where I work and I took it to him and asked him to pull it apart. He couldn't do it either although he did succeed in elongating the two eyes of the hangers. So I did find out that this stuff really gets a grip on wire using CA glue. Here is a pic of the one I am currently working on. John http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/JBlaze1952/PVC%20Crank/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 are you guys carving that stuff by hand (meaning with a knife)? .....or using power to shpe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaze Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 are you guys carving that stuff by hand (meaning with a knife)? .....or using power to shpe? I saw my pattern out on a band saw then use a dremel drum sander for the major shaping then finish by hand and a sanding block. It works up pretty quickly. I think I have read in one of the posts here that it can be rounded off with a router. I don't haave one so I have not tried that. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Sonny, I cut out the profile and lip slot with the bandsaw, and then shape it with an occilating belt sander. I carve it with an exacto knife. As long as it's sharp, a carving knife will work fine on PVC. JBlaze, Are you using the decking or the trimboard. I find the decking to be close to poplar in buoyancy, and the trimboard close to balsa. I made several deep divers out of the trimboard, and they back up and out as fast as the Rapala DT 16's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaze Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Mark, I am using the trimboard, I found it at Home Depot several years ago when I was looking for the decking that you spoke of. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkie Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'm looking to build-up and reshape a few older wooden baits. I need to know what you guys recommend using to do this. Also, any pointers would be welcome. Wood filler? Bondo? Epoxy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinorf Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Have any of you balsa builders tried the AZEK trimboard? I have been using their decking for years (thank you JRHopkins), but I recently tried their trimboard and was amazed! It's even more buoyant than the decking, but still strong and totally waterproof. It has cut sealing completely out of my lure building, and I never have to worry about water intrusion. I don't own stock in AZEK, and I'm not sponsored by them. I just found something to make my lure building easier and faster, and I think sharing stuff is what TU is all about. Thanks Mark! Looks like I got some topwaters to get started on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
