archeryrob Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 My buddy and I did our first castings yesterday. We had some isues to start with but heating the molds fixed some of them fast. Using the Lee bottom pour pot and would reflux the lead with new ingots added. We kept the pot on 10 for heat the entire time. Ultra Minnow I started and the mold was too cold, once heated I got better flow to the collar. I had a few problems with collars still, but letting the hooks sit in the mold for 45 seconds before pouring seemed to help mostly. Every once in a while one failed and setup too fast at the bottom. I probably casted 50 1/2 and 3/4 oz each Lure body, Once hot this ran really nice. Spinnerbait, Probably failed as much as it succedded, maybe even more failures. I quit on it. I think the wire and hook cooled the pour and made it a poor set for the collar most times. Heat the wires? Football jigs, I got the do-it football jig mold from 1/4 oz up. My buddy tried and had the mold hot 200 and let the hooks rest in it before pouring. Casting was inconsistant. Some barbs cast and some not. We melted a lot back into the pot and recast to get proper jigs. Heat the hooks more? If it's the hooks, how are you all heating them and getting them in the mold still hot? I think they would cool fumbling hook hooks in my fingers. Spinner baits, how do you get hot wires, to hooks, and then get them in the mold. I had enough problems doing it cold. I was thinking of breaking out the toaster oven and heating the ingot trays and laying the hooks or spinner wires in them. The ingot tray might hold the heat longer to keep them warmer. Any other thoughts or ideas on improving the setup and pours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Based on what poured good and what you had problems with I am going to bet that it is your lead, simple enough. Whats wrong is it seems to be of a hard alloy like wheel weights and such, you can pour with it but you may need to ladle pour as you can dump more lead in fast than the bottom pour. I have an Ultra Minnow spinnerbait mold and I have to add soft lead to my pot in order to get a good flow and even then I still have to use a ladle and my 1/8oz football heads need to be ladled as for some reason the collar doesn't fill with the bottom pour. One more thing to try is cracking the mold to allow air to escape which could be causing some of your problems, to do that all you need to find is some high temp teflon tape and stick a piece to a flat unused part of the mold, it may cause a small amount of flashing but that is easier to fix than an incomplete pour. Try doing that and let us know how it works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 archeryrob, To add to what smalljaw said, there are so many variables in lead pouring. From lead composition to also using a mold release agent, tilting molds (left, right, front and back), heating hooks( as you mentioned), to finally just good old trial and error. There is nothing magical about pouring lead. It does take a lot of trial and error, and once you find what works for that mold write it down so you don't start the process all over again next time. Each mold is it's own animal, and they all have their own personalities, so it's impossible to tell you what to do for each mold, because I have found that two same model numbered molds don't pour the same either. With that said, the only way to get consistency is to write down what worked for you once you find a solution and keep a log. Now some things that I do that may help you. #1. In the winter I keep my hooks in a black old skillet next to my pouring pot with a 100 watt lightbulb over the hooks.I adjust the bulb close enough to keep the hooks hot as to where I can pick them up with my fingers. If you are using wire forms you can toss those in the small skillet as well. The black on the inside helps keep the hooks reakky hot. #2. Making your lead hotter, doesn't make it flow better in my opinion. If you use really hard lead, cranking it up to 10 isn't going to solve your bad pours. Find what the problem is, I keep my pot at around 7 to 7.5 that's it even in winter. #3. Always keep the molds hot. If you walk away from your station, put the mold on the pot to keep it hot. #4. I have found that the Ulta-Minnow mold was the hardest to pour for me. So with that said, I finally started using a mold release agent and it has solved many problems for me that I have had in the past. If you are going to continue pouring, you should use this. It will save a lot of frustrating days. I also pour with a ladle on my spinnerbait. Sometimes you have to use unorthodox methods to get things to work. You do what you have to do. Finally, again it takes a lot of practice and there is a learning curve, and some days if I can't get things to work I just walk away and start on it the next day. So hope some of this helps. Let us know how it goes down the raod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 X2 to all above plus MAKE SURE TO FLUX !!!!!! Keep the lead CLEAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 archeryrob, When I find that I need to heat hooks or wires I use a small butane torch like the ones at Harbor Freight. After I put the hooks and wires in the mold I make a couple passes with the torch to heat them up, close the mold an pour. No burned fingers. Here is a link. http://www.harborfreight.com/micro-torch-42099.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeryrob Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 When I find that I need to heat hooks or wires I use a small butane torch like the ones at Harbor Freight. After I put the hooks and wires in the mold I make a couple passes with the torch to heat them up, close the mold an pour. No burned fingers. \ This worked like a charm for me. I set a 1x4 black next to the mold so I could lay the wires on wood so they would not twist while not being held. I turned the torch on as low as I could get it to stay lit. Then hit the wire/hook connection for 5 seconds and shut the mold and pured, with mold pre heated. 8 straight pours and all flowed and had full collars. Heating the hooks in the ingot trays did not seem to help as they cooled off too fast. If they where cool enough to touch, I got a bad flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EironBreaker Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hey Cadman, do you think humidity has something to do with imcomplete casting? Was at a buddy's shop yesterday who does spin casting. A week ago it was cold and dry, yesterday it was warm and humid for a January day. We had a lot of trouble this week and finally had to just give in and stop for the day. Still got about 500 pieces spun and painted but should have been twice that for the time we spent. Tried to soften the lead and messed with hot/cold molds but didn't matter. Spin casting is a different beast from drop pouring for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 If you are spincasting, softer lead will make it worse. For example, straight wheel has around 1 to 2% antimony. Antimony is what make it hard. I run a 5% antimony for spincasting. If I am having trouble with incomplete pours in hand pouring, I will use harder lead to help it pour better. It is harder to break off, no pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hey Cadman, do you think humidity has something to do with imcomplete casting? Was at a buddy's shop yesterday who does spin casting. A week ago it was cold and dry, yesterday it was warm and humid for a January day. We had a lot of trouble this week and finally had to just give in and stop for the day. Still got about 500 pieces spun and painted but should have been twice that for the time we spent. Tried to soften the lead and messed with hot/cold molds but didn't matter. Spin casting is a different beast from drop pouring for sure. I don't spin cast, however yes I do believe that humidity does have a factor on pouring jigs. I can pour hundred of jigs in my garage when it's in the 40's and all through winter without a bad pour. Come summer and the high humidity and I start having problems. Now with the Frankford Arsenal Drop out mold release, I have cut that down to half as many problems in the summer. However I have found that I get better pours in the summer really early in the morning or later at night. There are days in the summer when nothing seems to work, and so after getting frustrated I walk away and start the next day. This may all sound crazy, but it happens to me every year. So take it for what its's worth I believe jigman mentioned that it is opposite for him. Better pours in summer and worse pours in winter. So I just don't know, only what seems to work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cz75b Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Cadman is correct about each mold being a different animal. I cast 400+ buzz baits this weekend in four sizes and had some startup challenges completely related to mold temperature. Someone mentioned hard lead as the problem, once again, alloyed (hard) lead melts at a lower temp and fills in mold detail better than pure (soft) lead. You can read that as stays liquid a little longer in a hot mold release treated cavity. With the buzz bait molds I only cast one at a time, trying two gave things time to cool slightly resulting in incomplete pours. I used both a ladle and the bottom pour spout. Both worked great but if the bottom wasn't lined up perfect things didn't work. All mistakes corrected with propane torch and recycled for 100% perfect casts. Take away, lead, tin, antimony alloy(like wheel weights) casts much better than lead alone. Hot mold and alloy, clean mold and alloy and mold release cavities. Works every time. Getting into a rhythm is essential too. For wire insert molds, have everything ready for pouring, if you try and crimp hooks to wire forms one at a time, it won't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hey Cadman, do you think humidity has something to do with imcomplete casting? Was at a buddy's shop yesterday who does spin casting. A week ago it was cold and dry, yesterday it was warm and humid for a January day. We had a lot of trouble this week and finally had to just give in and stop for the day. Still got about 500 pieces spun and painted but should have been twice that for the time we spent. Tried to soften the lead and messed with hot/cold molds but didn't matter. Spin casting is a different beast from drop pouring for sure. I agree with cadman on this, my shop is in the basement of my home and during the winter the oil burner is on and the heat dries the surrounding air and casting is a breeze, in the summer it is a different animal, I even used a dehumidifier and while it did help a bit it is still far from perfect. The problem where I live is the summer heat is around 85 to 90 degrees on a hot day but the humidity is always around 60% - 80% and when it is like that it is almost impossible to pour. I try to pour a lot through the winter and spring but once July hits I will go sometimes 2 weeks without pouring anything as it tends to be more frustrating, for awhile I thought it was just me or the lead I had but I find more and more that say the same thing so if you are hand casting then humidity is not your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeryrob Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Tried to soften the lead and messed with hot/cold molds but didn't matter. Hot are you softening your lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EironBreaker Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The lead was a mix of wheel weights and pure sheet lead. We tried to add more sheet lead to get a better pour which usually works for me with hand molds but it didn't make anything better. I think it was the humidity. We finished about 2/3 of what I needed and we'll get the rest this weekend I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkman Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 i bought a lee's Hot pot 2 for pouring my spinnerbaits...that has helped me.....gives me the benefits of laddle pouring and a consistant pour....if you go that rout make sure you get a different pouring surface, i use an old cookie sheet..keeps al the over por on a metle surface along with being able to put your pot down with out burning stuff...take care Erick...peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippinfool Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 My buddy and I did our first castings yesterday. We had some isues to start with but heating the molds fixed some of them fast. Using the Lee bottom pour pot and would reflux the lead with new ingots added. We kept the pot on 10 for heat the entire time. Ultra Minnow I started and the mold was too cold, once heated I got better flow to the collar. I had a few problems with collars still, but letting the hooks sit in the mold for 45 seconds before pouring seemed to help mostly. Every once in a while one failed and setup too fast at the bottom. I probably casted 50 1/2 and 3/4 oz each Lure body, Once hot this ran really nice. Spinnerbait, Probably failed as much as it succedded, maybe even more failures. I quit on it. I think the wire and hook cooled the pour and made it a poor set for the collar most times. Heat the wires? Football jigs, I got the do-it football jig mold from 1/4 oz up. My buddy tried and had the mold hot 200 and let the hooks rest in it before pouring. Casting was inconsistant. Some barbs cast and some not. We melted a lot back into the pot and recast to get proper jigs. Heat the hooks more? If it's the hooks, how are you all heating them and getting them in the mold still hot? I think they would cool fumbling hook hooks in my fingers. Spinner baits, how do you get hot wires, to hooks, and then get them in the mold. I had enough problems doing it cold. I was thinking of breaking out the toaster oven and heating the ingot trays and laying the hooks or spinner wires in them. The ingot tray might hold the heat longer to keep them warmer. Any other thoughts or ideas on improving the setup and pours? This may help. 1.Do a half dozen dry pours (No hooks) before you start pouring with hooks. After I'm done pouring one type of head I put the next mold on top of the pot while I'm clean the heads I just poured. This will give it time to heat up. 2. If molds with larger hooks are not pouring well you can give a shot of heat with the mold closed right inside the pouring hole with this http://www.bing.com/shopping/ts3000kc-torch-kit-trigger-start-w-propane/p/4DD9B9EF54543C94D2A1?q=Torch+Kit+Trigger+Start+W%2fpropane&lpq=Torch%20Kit%20Trigger%20Start%20W%2fpropane&qpvt=Torch+Kit+Trigger+Start+W%2fpropane&FORM=HURE it will heat the hook up and only takes a second or two. Much quicker than melting the lead off a bad pour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLT Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Is your Lee pot you are using brand new, or is it used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeryrob Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I was able to heat the spinnerbait wire and got full collars most times. This worked much better and I had a soft lead strap and that poured good too. So softer lead or hotter wires with hard lead was the options that got better pours. My buddies hot pot is used from his old bullet casting days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
