SHK Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 I am on your side here. I think your formula is good as I have said already. I found a flaw in you formula that I thought you would like to correct. I give you specifics but you wont answer that question. Answer this one question and I will be done. You say weigh a bait. Why in an example would you use a HALF A POUND bait as an example. I have never seen a 1/2 pound soft plastic bait. I have not weighted a bait but would assume it is closer to 1/2 OUNCE. So the .5 in you example should be .031 pounds (1/2 oz) What you initially want to know is what the plastic cost is to make one bait. Correct? I know that by putting .5 in your original example that you meany it to be .5 oz. I am just pointing out that .5 would be 1/2 a pound and not 1/2 an oz. I respect you here and honestly am no trying to be a wise guy. I am fairly new at this and willing to learn. So please dont take this as a personal attack on you. ....Bill what does it matter what weight he used, its an example, the formula is the same whether you use a half pound, half ounce or half a gram. it is a hypothetical example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-Boys Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 ok Mike, I dug out some of my old notes. 3--tea spoons = 1- table spoon 52 -drops of color or stablizer = 1/2 teaspoon 10-teaspoons of glitter = 2 oz. jar 1--table spoon = 1/2 oz. 8 -table spoons = 4oz. or a 1/2 cup 2 cups = a pint 4 cups = a quart 16 cups = gallon 256 table spoons in a gallon 128 oz in a gallon 640 oz. in 5 gallon -------------- prices at this time - a few years ago - includes shipping hardner -- $ 16.00 qt -- 64 tables spoons = 25 cents a table spoon scent ---- $ 55.00 qt.-- 64 table spoons = 86 cents a table spoon - very costly !!!! color -- $ 5.00 -- 2 oz bottle-- 4 table spoons -- 416 drops -- apx. 1 cent per drop glitter -- $ 15.00 -- 8 oz. bag --- 40 tea sp. 37 cents per. teaspoon salt -- $ 3.00 gallon --- 256 table spoons = just over 1 cent per table spoon softner --$ 40.00 gallon --256 table spoons = 16 cents per table spoon worm oil - same as softner plastic -- $ 150.00 -- 5 gallon ---640 oz. --- 23 cents per oz. ----------------------------------------------- so say for... top water frogs 14 oz. plastic ---23 x 14 = $ 3.22 1-- tea hardner--- 25 per. table - div. 3 = teaspoon = 8 cents 20 - drops color --- 20 cents 1/2 tea - glitter ---- 19 cents makes --26 baits 3.22 + .08 + .20 + .19 $ 3.69 div. 26 = 14 cents each frog cost for materials only add,, bags,,, elec. ,,,labor,, paper towells,, ect .. .14 cents cost x 4 to get retail bag of 6 frogs cost me to make .14x 6 = 84 cents just materials . x 4.5 for retail $ 3.78I would round this up to $ 3.99 retail if I have enough molds of the same bait I average apx. 50 baits per. hour so that 1/2 hour labor for the batch of 26 frogs I was remelting the sprues as I went & with no salt you have very little waste ------- salted & scented creature bait 14 oz -- plastic --- $3.22 4 tables salt-------- $ .05 cents 1 table spoon softner--- $ .16 cents 20 drops color---------$ .20 cents 3/4 teaspoon glitter ---$ .55 cents 1/2 teaspoon scent --- .43 cents makes 25 baits $ 4.61 cost for 25 baits just materials --.18 cents per. bait cost.. x 4.5 = retail 6 baits per. bag = .18 x 4.5 = .81 cents x 6 baits = $ 4.86 - round up to $4.99 bag salted waiste in the bottom of cup ,, but it is covered in the cost. when making baits @ your house you can not figure your electric cost.. so i just guess @ taking my cost X 4.5 = retail per. bag.. i would sell them for less in 50 ct bags.. never made very much for labor,, but had fun and still make my own baits to fish with. the larger container you buy for all products saves you money,, the guy I sold out to started rite off w/ a 55 gallon drum of plastic & saved a lot on that cost. Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thanks Jeff. I know it took you a lot of time to lay that out, but I didn't see excise tax. This is the direction that I was hoping this thread would take. I know people have different methods for pricing, it's just real informative to see it actually broken down. You're a good man, thanks for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-Boys Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 excize taxes are another 10 % off the top..that was included in my 4.5 x material cost.. I done it for 5 years and it was not proffitable for me.. 4.5 times the cost was not enough to make any money.. with taxes 10% on excise and in shop sales collect 6 % mich sales tax & pay that to the state. then the cost of molds ,,pyrex,,,bags , lables,, postage., ect.. there was also many small items you use a lot of too.,.paper, pencils ,, paint brushes , ect... I really never made a penny on labor.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 just looking at your example there were plenty of ways to make it profitable, and it starts with buying in volume. instead of 5 gal of plastic at a time, shell out the initial investment and buy by the drum (doing just that i cut my plastic costs in half including shipping), buy colours in larger volumes (pints or quarts) flake by the pound, salt by the 80lb bag, scent by the gallon. if the business is there why not save some money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-Boys Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 just looking at your example there were plenty of ways to make it profitable, and it starts with buying in volume. instead of 5 gal of plastic at a time, shell out the initial investment and buy by the drum (doing just that i cut my plastic costs in half including shipping), buy colours in larger volumes (pints or quarts) flake by the pound, salt by the 80lb bag, scent by the gallon. if the business is there why not save some money. If I were to do it over and was going to sell baits ,, you said it rite on ,, buy in large quantity and then you can make a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 This has been an interesting thread.You can save considerable $ buy bying plastisol and other necessary soft-plastic materials in bulk BUT- you must also factor in 1-Shop w/air conditioning and heat 2-Compressor, exhaust fans/booth 3- Electrical requirements 4-Injection machine 5- Custom CNC injection molds (you think plastisol is expensive!!) 6-Packaging including labels 7-Office overhead and office supplies 8- C.C. processing fees,soft-wear and P.I.A. addendum bank fees 9- Domain name protection 10-Advertising 11- 10 % excise tax(quarterly form #720) on gross sales receipts All of that said,if you're producing/selling the same baits as Bass Pro Shops Cabela's and Zoom ,then you'll have to undercut their retail prices to become establised. (Good Luck- )Then you'll need to eiher contact Carolina Mike or purchase your own Zorn machines. Now let's figure the total gross cost of your baits,adding in all fixed expenses before adding a mark-up margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) This has been an interesting thread.You can save considerable $ buy bying plastisol and other necessary soft-plastic materials in bulk BUT- you must also factor in 1-Shop w/air conditioning and heat - not necessarily needed to produce baits 2-Compressor, exhaust fans/booth - compressor and booth are not a necessity 3- Electrical requirements 4-Injection machine - not needed to produce baits 5- Custom CNC injection molds (you think plastisol is expensive!!) - custom molds are not needed 6-Packaging including labels 7-Office overhead and office supplies - office over the shop is not needed, nothing wrong with using the computer area in the house. 8- C.C. processing fees,soft-wear and P.I.A. addendum bank fees - CC processing and software not needed, use paypal 9- Domain name protection - should be included when buying the domain name (mine was) 10-Advertising - plenty of ways to advertise your products free 11- 10 % excise tax(quarterly form #720) on gross sales receipts - only applies to those in the USA. All of that said,if you're producing/selling the same baits as Bass Pro Shops Cabela's and Zoom ,then you'll have to undercut their retail prices to become establised. (Good Luck- )Then you'll need to eiher contact Carolina Mike or purchase your own Zorn machines. why in gods green earth would you under cut them? you are producing a far superior product, charge for it!!!! Now let's figure the total gross cost of your baits,adding in all fixed expenses before adding a mark-up margin. if i am not mistaken, Mike already has provisions for this in his formula, hence the daily operating costs. Edited February 13, 2012 by SHK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 "This thread is a great argument to use software to control the manufacturing process. Building a bait is the the same thing as creating an assembly using materials in different amounts to build an item, say a car for instance." I have done quite a bit of work in "FileMaker" & have made a data base for myself ... yours does not have to be as complex as the one I have worked my self into. The Screens below are a couple of screens used in the "Products File". The Components have "Drop Lists" on each line from the "Material & Components File" .. You can see how the costs & profits are figured (Note from the Gross Profit you have to deduct Over head ... Electricity, Office Stuff & etc. which is general business operations.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 SHK- you seem have all the answers to operate an in-epensive soft-plastics bait business w/o custom CNC molds and exhaust systems for hand injecting. Free advertising-!!! .Amazing and impresive!! I pay the 10% excise tax since I live and work in the U.S.A. BTW- check your pay pal statements for their charge % of gross sales processed. You stated that air conditioning and heating is not necessary to produce baits.Really??- in my locale outside air temps range from upper 90's in the summer and winter lows of 5 degrees. I'll refrain from responding to any additional posts from you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 SHK- you seem have all the answers to operate an in-epensive soft-plastics bait business w/o custom CNC molds and exhaust systems for hand injecting. Free advertising-!!! .Amazing and impresive!! I pay the 10% excise tax since I live and work in the U.S.A. BTW- check your pay pal statements for their charge % of gross sales processed. You stated that air conditioning and heating is not necessary to produce baits.Really??- in my locale outside air temps range from upper 90's in the summer and winter lows of 5 degrees. I'll refrain from responding to any additional posts from you. i wont refrain from responding. never once did i mention you shouldnt have an exhaust system, but a compressor and booth are not needed. no air conditioning and heat isnt necessary, our summers here are frequently in the 90's and winters in the negatives, and i still after several years producing baits and building my business do not have heat or air-conditioning. so no it is not a necessity but a convenience. i never did say either that it was inexpensive either, and yes paypal charges a percentage, i would rather pay the percentage once to paypal than a percentage to the CC processing company, the CC companies percentage and the cost of the software. it honestly sounds like you are trying to scare someone from starting up a business by stating you need a bunch of stuff that isnt necessary to conduct business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bountiful Waters Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Mike, I think you did well on starting this conversation. More than anything, I think you may have instigated some of the members to look more closely at their botom line. I have literally made every mistake in the hand pour business possible before we went to the high production molds. I became very streamlined before I made the switch, including running a the shop on it's own meter, etc.. The bottom line was it was very difficult to justify putting 30-40k a year into a handpour business to clear after expenses 10-15%. The biggest mistake I see is that many people start as a hobby and then think they are going to make big money handpouring/injecting baits. It is ok to keep it small and simple and enjoy it. I can remember when I had just a corner of a garage, 10 molds or less, a Lees pot, and a few bottles of color and glitter. Today, as we were packing for the big show in Indy, I looked around at 100k plus worth of packed plastics, boxes of new rods we are releasing, hats, shirts, the smell of anise, and recall those days in the corner of the garage. The moral of the story......if it were not for my day job, I would still have a little corner of the garage with $100 or less in materials. Just enjoy yourself, whatever path you take. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 If they have to pay you to do it, it's called work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Maybe that is where I am differant. I sell some baits with my name but mostly pour for others that have there own designs. So custom molds are on there dime not mine, If a color does not sell well that is theres too. So I make money for just what I do and not all the other things that go into the whole game. I know for a fact that one of my customers pays more to bag a product that the product cost him. Sounds funny but it is true. I dont have time to get ever pennie on the table just what I want. I know for the products that are under my name it is a pain to finish packaging and labeling just to deliver it and do it all over. This is fresh in my mind because I just finished doing it and it is late. SHK and Smallmouth I guess it matters where you live as to the needs for your business. My summers hit 100 plus for more than 50 days a year but dont have air, I just sweat it out. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Frank ... That is the way to go .... Producing is one thing but Package & Marketing .. Promotion is all another Ball game .. Some have the ability to do it all but to do it big time takes a LOT OF MONEY ... Good Thread Guys 90 to 100 + degrees is tough and a older guy like me does it the same way as you ... Sweat it out.... Edited February 14, 2012 by JSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basscandy92040 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I broke my cost down on the bare bones. Onces of plastic=number of baits. Cost of plastic down to the once with shipping. How bait baits per once. give me a rough cost per bait. I know not including all the glitter and color scent etc... I figured about a buck per pack and wholesale to the shop for 2.25 they sell it for 3.99... It seems to me the way to make any real profit is selling it for retail...... When I do jigs it is a bit easier since the cost to make them are the head .47 shipped skirt tabs .11 to .13 each bulk. 2.5 tabs per jig, .2 for collar and .6 for WG. bag .13 lable .3 right under a buck...sell it for 2.00 store sells it for 3.99.... power paint...dont even know how many jigs I can paint from a 2oz jar... Just my easy way to think about the costs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I can tell you one thing if you produce a bait that moves off the shelves there is profit in that. Not being retail lets me spend more time on what I can make a profit on. Not sitting on bags and bags of baits in colors that just dont move. Retail for the most part has overhead and all that comes with that so you make more but have to spend more to keep it going. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 if you retail direct through a website and make all of your baits to order Frank, you eliminate the over head of having to stock everything. that way the only baits you are making are those that are selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 if you retail direct through a website and make all of your baits to order Frank, you eliminate the over head of having to stock everything. that way the only baits you are making are those that are selling. I knew this would come up. And here is my reasoning for that. I cant make the kind of money like I do making one bag of baits. In fact I cant do it making even 100 at a time. And bagging labeling and taking care of things does take time that should factor in cost. The shop that sells alot of my products tells me what they want, that gives them the confidance to sell my product say over a name brand because it suits the needs of the area. Good point though and it is true. For me at least it is easier to sell something that is in there hand, than a web site that is just a picture.I guess I was just made to be behind the scenes and not in the for front. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basscandy92040 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 The website thing never took off for me. I dont know what the trick is to get folks to buy...I know my stuff sells at the shops here in town. I had a website up for a while. It was not the easiest to navigate maybe that was the reason.. Lots of hits but no bites (HAHA). Its more of a hobby I guess with some returns in money. It would be nice but to have a productive website but with that it is more time. Taking pictures of every color worm, jig swimbait etc, takes time. I find myself busy doing stuff for the shops and not taking time to finish my new site... Either way, it feels good to know that people out there like your stuff that you create and catches fish. I guess that is why I do it. Frank, your videos are great by the way. very helpfull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
