smalljaw Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hey all, as you can tell from the title I have a question about the size of the hooks used in that mold. I'm going to fish a new body of water this season in July and it is loaded with weed and laydowns and at that time of year it will probably be hot and a jig will be the thing to use so I'm wanting to add this to my arsenal. I need to know what size hooks are the biggest I can go with in the 1/4oz to 1/2oz mold, I really want to be able to use a 4/0 on the 1/4oz and a 5/0 on the 3/8oz so if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchance Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 not sure, I know the mold calls for a 3/0 and that is all I have used. The issue wouldn't be if the hook fits, the issue lies with the recessed eye. I think due to this you are pretty limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 not sure, I know the mold calls for a 3/0 and that is all I have used. The issue wouldn't be if the hook fits, the issue lies with the recessed eye. I think due to this you are pretty limited. Most of the molds I have used and own usually have no trouble going up or down a hook size or two but the "hidden eye" concerns me which is why I asked. It does use a good stout hook though so I may end up getting it even if I can't upsize the hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchance Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I use that mold and agree. the hook is pretty stout. I really like the jig so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Smalljaw, Are you ready for this, if so sit down grab a beer and read on. Or maybe I'll grab a beer. Anyway I have poured these over and over and over and this is my take on this jig with the hooks they want you to use. First of all I'm going to address the 1/4 oz jig. The 3/0 Mustad #32786 hooks they want you to use for this cavity is too heavy. What I mean by this is that if you take the 1/4 oz jig with the 3/0 hook in there it wants to topple over backwards and the 4/0 will definitely topple over backwards. There is just not enough weight in the base of the jig to hold this jig in the upright position. I have tried this over and over again with the same results. So maybe going to a thinner hook will lessen the weight and not make it top heavy. When you get to the 3/8 oz, the 3/0 is fine and the 4/0 works and is just at the end of being top heavy where the jig does remain upright. So here is the scenario. If you cast this jig out with an oversize hook, will it fall exactly upright, probably not especially the 1/4 oz. So does it matter if you use an oversize hook probably not. When you cast the 1/4 oz'er out it probably falls on the side, and the skirt will probably prop it up some so it doesn't lay flat. However this may happen to a 3/8 oz jig as well so all of this is a mute point. Now..........You can fix the 1/4 oz'er from toppling backwards, by filing the front half of the bottom of the jig. This will give your jig more lean forward. You can see this really well on a flat table , however is this worth the effort, if you are fishing an uneven lake bottom, probably not.................So let's forget all that and look at a better solution. I have poured many of these this way and they are perfect all the time. Please don't shoot the messenger. A customer of mine buys these like this and it's the cat's a**. What works for these jigs is the Owner #5304 hook. These hooks by far are the lightest hooks I have used and are extremely sharp. If you have not used these you have to try them at least once. They are expensive and they have a squared off hook bend, but for a stand-up brush jig, these can't be beat. So with that I'll leave you to ponder this insanity and I think I'll have my beer now. I'm sure you will have many, many questions. So shoot away.........................Talk to you soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Cadman, Was this jig designed to be a stand-up jig? I thought it was for coming through brush and snags with a swimming action that's why the bottom isn't really flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmsnowman Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Great info Ted. What hook size do you recommend for each size in that mold? I have a freind that uses these hooks for his jigs and they are a very good hook. The only issue I have seen with them is they do rust easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Cadman, Was this jig designed to be a stand-up jig? I thought it was for coming through brush and snags with a swimming action that's why the bottom isn't really flat. TJ, That's a good question, if that is the case, then it doesn't matter about hooks. However lot of guys buying these from me are using it as a stand-up, so now I don't really know. I guess you can use it for either, and yes it does have a convex bottom.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Great info Ted. What hook size do you recommend for each size in that mold? I have a freind that uses these hooks for his jigs and they are a very good hook. The only issue I have seen with them is they do rust easy. I don't know if I would recommend a certain hook size for a certain jig size. I have seen guys want 6/0 hooks on a 1/4 oz jig and vice-versa. So this is what I can tell you that fits in the Brush Jig mold and an Owner 5304 hook. 1/4 oz size = 2/0 just barely(hook eye on the hook too small in diameter) , 3/0 and 4/0 fine 3/8 oz size = 3/0 and 4/0 fine 1/2 oz size = 3/0 and 4/0 fine 5/8 oz size = 5/0 fine 3/4 oz size = 5/0 fine 1 oz size = 5/0 fine My hook eye pin on my Brush jig mold may be a little worn from use so these hooks may fit my mold a little easier. I couldn't tell you how they fit in a brand new mold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Wish I woulda read this before I ordered the recommended hooks for this mold I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I have a hard time getting these to fill out, the heads fill fine but the collar and barb do not. Read somewhere that some guys are heating the hooks and this solved their fill problems, please advise me on this Cadman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmsnowman Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't know if I would recommend a certain hook size for a certain jig size. I have seen guys want 6/0 hooks on a 1/4 oz jig and vice-versa. So this is what I can tell you that fits in the Brush Jig mold and an Owner 5304 hook. 1/4 oz size = 2/0 just barely(hook eye on the hook too small in diameter) , 3/0 and 4/0 fine 3/8 oz size = 3/0 and 4/0 fine 1/2 oz size = 3/0 and 4/0 fine 5/8 oz size = 5/0 fine 3/4 oz size = 5/0 fine 1 oz size = 5/0 fine My hook eye pin on my Brush jig mold may be a little worn from use so these hooks may fit my mold a little easier. I couldn't tell you how they fit in a brand new mold. Thanks Ted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thank you cadman !! I have used and currently have about 63 or 64 of the Owner 5304 deep throat jig hooks on hand. I had a guy that insisted on those for a football jig and so I got them and after making some jigs for myself with it I now like it! I'm still debating on the brush jig mold, I have a good long time to think it over. I don't think any jig designed to stand on the bottom really works great, I've tried all of the spot removers and unless the bottom is level and free from debris then chances it will stand are minimum at best. I also make a jig that I use to flip and pitch anyway, the Snootie makes a fantastic flipping jig, I like the 1/2 or 5/8oz sizes for flipping and what makes it so good is the compact design using a stout hook, it really gets through cover and rarely hangs up. A lot look at it and tell me it won't stand up...No kidding, when you are flipping and pitching jigs to cover you put the jig on target, let it hit the bottom and give it a couple of short lifts and drops and get it out and move on to the next target, you don't want the jig to stand up and more importantly, you don't need it to, as you are looking to cause a reaction strike. Oh well, that is for another day, thanks all, I really appreciate all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchance Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't know if I would recommend a certain hook size for a certain jig size. I have seen guys want 6/0 hooks on a 1/4 oz jig and vice-versa. So this is what I can tell you that fits in the Brush Jig mold and an Owner 5304 hook. 1/4 oz size = 2/0 just barely(hook eye on the hook too small in diameter) , 3/0 and 4/0 fine 3/8 oz size = 3/0 and 4/0 fine 1/2 oz size = 3/0 and 4/0 fine 5/8 oz size = 5/0 fine 3/4 oz size = 5/0 fine 1 oz size = 5/0 fine My hook eye pin on my Brush jig mold may be a little worn from use so these hooks may fit my mold a little easier. I couldn't tell you how they fit in a brand new mold. So does the Owner 5304 hook fit the mold without modifying it? I wouldn't mind haveing the smaller wire hook for the smaller jigs. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Wish I woulda read this before I ordered the recommended hooks for this mold I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I have a hard time getting these to fill out, the heads fill fine but the collar and barb do not. Read somewhere that some guys are heating the hooks and this solved their fill problems, please advise me on this Cadman! Mindhunter, please start another thread and I will reply. I don't want to hijack this thread either, as my response to your question and other responses from other members may be lengthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thank you cadman !! I have used and currently have about 63 or 64 of the Owner 5304 deep throat jig hooks on hand. I had a guy that insisted on those for a football jig and so I got them and after making some jigs for myself with it I now like it! I'm still debating on the brush jig mold, I have a good long time to think it over. I don't think any jig designed to stand on the bottom really works great, I've tried all of the spot removers and unless the bottom is level and free from debris then chances it will stand are minimum at best. I also make a jig that I use to flip and pitch anyway, the Snootie makes a fantastic flipping jig, I like the 1/2 or 5/8oz sizes for flipping and what makes it so good is the compact design using a stout hook, it really gets through cover and rarely hangs up. A lot look at it and tell me it won't stand up...No kidding, when you are flipping and pitching jigs to cover you put the jig on target, let it hit the bottom and give it a couple of short lifts and drops and get it out and move on to the next target, you don't want the jig to stand up and more importantly, you don't need it to, as you are looking to cause a reaction strike. Oh well, that is for another day, thanks all, I really appreciate all the help. Smalljaw you are correct all the hype about stand-up jigs, only works in a perfect world where the lake bottom is perfectly flat. . With that said I too can care less about stand up jigs. If there is a fish there and you are moving your jig or whatever, the fish will pick it up plain and simple. One other thing I know you like Snooties like I do, and I've tried the 5304 on that jig and it is just kick-a**. I have sold many, and am going to try them on my Snooties I'm going to fish this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) So does the Owner 5304 hook fit the mold without modifying it? I wouldn't mind haveing the smaller wire hook for the smaller jigs. thanks Derek, The inside diameter of the hook eye on the 5304, is slightly smaller than the pin sticking out of this mold. I put a hook in there, and when I pressed the two mold halves closed, I was able to pour the brush jig no problem with no flash. Also in doing this I did not spring the hinge, as the aluminum in the mold does have some give. As far as the hook shank of the 5304's it fits in all the mold cavities no problem. The diameter of the hook shank on the 32786 is bigger than the 5304 hooks. So that is not an issue. Edited February 22, 2012 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Smalljaw you are correct all the hype about stand-up jigs, only works in a perfect world where the lake bottom is perfectly flat. . With that said I too can care less about stand up jigs. If there is a fish there and you are moving your jig or whatever, the fish will pick it up plain and simple. One other thing I know you like Snooties like I do, and I've tried the 5304 on that jig and it is just kick-a**. I have sold many, and am going to try them on my Snooties I'm going to fish this year. Cadman, just talking about this has made me go into "pour mode" and I'm going to put some flipping jigs together with the 5304! There are three guys I make jigs for that know what the Snootie is all about, and they all say the same thing, it is the most versatile jig I make. I often thought about different designs and stuff but then I think at my level and how and why I make tackle I don't need a custom mold, and the Snootie jig is a reason why I don't as it is one of the best head designs I ever fished. I can go with a big size and make a super effective flipping jig that triggers a lot of strikes just because it falls differently than most jigs. I can use a smaller size and use it as a great jig to pitch with, I use oversize hooks in the cavities and make an awesome swim jig as well as a bladed jig and I discovered it does really well at fishing 4" and 5" plastic and hollow bodied swim baits. I don't need the brush jig mold after all...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchance Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 thanks for the info cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchance Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 those Owners are pretty spendy too huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cadman, just talking about this has made me go into "pour mode" and I'm going to put some flipping jigs together with the 5304! There are three guys I make jigs for that know what the Snootie is all about, and they all say the same thing, it is the most versatile jig I make. I often thought about different designs and stuff but then I think at my level and how and why I make tackle I don't need a custom mold, and the Snootie jig is a reason why I don't as it is one of the best head designs I ever fished. I can go with a big size and make a super effective flipping jig that triggers a lot of strikes just because it falls differently than most jigs. I can use a smaller size and use it as a great jig to pitch with, I use oversize hooks in the cavities and make an awesome swim jig as well as a bladed jig and I discovered it does really well at fishing 4" and 5" plastic and hollow bodied swim baits. I don't need the brush jig mold after all...lol. Smalljaw, I don't know what it is about you and I that we like our Snooties soooo much. That is my go to jig every single time I go on the water. The only other jigs I have tied on are the Poison Tail and a football jig in rocks. You know I have 100 plus molds and I keep on going back to the same three , with Snootie being #1. Maybe it is the way I work that jig. I just love it, doesn't get stuck in weeds, goes through vegetation, really well, and I can bounce it, flip it and so on just like you. Above all it catches fish. Also if I want a really slow fall jig the 1/8 oz Snootie is great for that as well. It is a very versatile jig. I've tried many of my other jigs I make and I still like the Snootie. Also you can put in quite a few different hooks in there from Owners, to some Gami's, Mustad and Eagle Claws. So you can use a really heavy hook to a thinner hook. The options are endless and most of all, there is very little modification needed if any. I didn't want to talk you out of a brush jig mold, because I do sell a lot of these jigs, and for those guys that like them, they work for their type of fishing nothing wrong with that. It's all about how you fish and what you have confidence in. If you find a jig that loads up the boat for you with fish, than stick with that jig because apparently you know how to fish that jig and trigger strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 those Owners are pretty spendy too huh? Derek, The 5304 are a litle pricey. However I will tell you one thing and that hook is strong and does not flex much. If you want to bend it by the eye, you will break the hook. The hook point on the Owner is sharp. I would probably fish that hook over a Gami. JMO. If you have never fished this hook you need to try it once. It is worth the time to see how you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
