Fishoey Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hello All- I was in a debate with my brother about colorant for soft plastics. I work for a large format printing company and I believe the coloring used in soft plastics is a pigment (i.e. solvent based) and when it is heated the solvent evaporates and pigment is left behind. I actually tried it and it works great. I'm a little concerned because it is a pretty brutal chemical (toxic). That being said, I purchased colorant from a company and it doesn't have the harsh solvent smell, which was leading me to believe it was a dye. While trying to find the answer in the forums (prior to posting) someone stated the colorant from the company I ordered from was dye based. I have a couple questions: - What is the dye used (pretty sure it isn't food coloring, however I could be wrong)? - If it is pigment, is it solvent based? If not, what pigment is used? Which is better? I noticed some say they lose color from their softs in a month or two with dye. The solvent worked awesome form me, however even though it is cooked out, I don't want to use it if there is something out there less toxic. The solvent is heated out, but I'm still concerned. Thanks in Advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Fishoey, the true pigments are oil based, not exactly sure what type of oil. If the coloring you tested was coloring sold for hand pour then this material has been broken down to make it more user friendly. The true pigments are probably more like your printers ink, they are a thick pasty material. The dyes that I deal with come in two forms, one's a liquid, which most likely is a solvent based material and the others are powders. A real clear chartreuse is a dye. The folks that sell the coloring for hand pours usually break down the pigments and dyes with DIMP, which is another oil based material that incorporates very well with plastisol. The dyes are definitely not food coloring. Almost all food coloring is water based. It has to be an oil based material to incorporate with the plastisol. I imagine the pigments that are used are something close to the same thing they use in oil based paints. As far as any of these being highly toxic, I really don't think it's the case with these materials, but you can call the company and get the data sheets on them. Most all of them have them available just ask and they should be glad to give you the information. The colorings I've always wondered about was the flourescent. They cannot be added to hot plastic like the other pigments and dyes can, but if you add a little bit to the raw plastisol and then add that to the hot plastic it works every time. It's like you're actually making this an oil based material before you use it. This is what I know. I like this thread, I'd like to hear more about the coloring used for plastisol. Maybe someone else will give some more information. Also, true pigments do not bleed. Dyes are high bleeding colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 i was just going to answer but Mike pretty much covered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painter1 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Thanks for that explanation, Mike. I wonder how tinting colors for paint would work? I may get some from Sherwin-Williams and try it unless you guys already know?: I was planning to mix and pour some Fluorescent colored baits soon and did not know that they were limited in any way. I have the colorants from CCM (MF maybe?) Are you saying not to mix the color into hot plastic or put it in before heating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishoey Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Thanks Mike for the input! The solvent pigment (liquid) is an oil base and mixes nicely. I think I'll shy away from the dyes for what I am doing, simply due to the fading or bleeding issues. As long as the solvent cooks out I don't see a problem with it, being as it is leaving the pigment behind. If anyone else has tried what I am going to do I would love to hear about their experience. NOTE: If anyone uses liquid pigments and has the MSDS (OSHA required sheets) I would love to compare the chemical make up for what I am using. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wchilton Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 The difference between a dye and a pigment is partly just a difference in particle size. Dye particles are very small, so they don't diffuse light (ie. transparent colors) while pigment particles are about 1000 times larger. The smaller dye particles can "flow" easier with liquids in the plastic so they may bleed. Also, being a smaller particle, it has greater tendency to react chemically and that is why some will fade (ie. loose color). The thing you want to make sure of is that whatever colorant you use is compatible with oils and can withstand the temperatures that are reached. Oil based or solvent based colorants should be ok, just be careful (as you are) with solvents that smell strong or could be flamable. People here have used melted crayons, oil-based art paints, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny438 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I work in this industry everyday and have for 20 years we have used some strange things to help match colors. The main point is it cannot have any moisture in it at all we use a lot of powder and have a small cup of plastic mixing it into with a blender or in our in our case a milkshake stir. You can buy Iron Oxide which is rust and it makes a great colorant , we have use Powdered Coco mix like for hot choc. , we have use oil based food coloring. The limits are plenty.. Edited February 26, 2012 by johnny438 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 If I'm not mistaken many printers inks are soy oil based, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick'em Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm going to stick to using the real deal colorant for now. I just got a batch from Bear's. You have to stir it well to mix up the pigment that settles along the bottom. There was a big difference in each bottle after I carefully made sure all pigment was mixed well. It settles kinda quick, so if you go a few day to a week or more, without using said color, just shaking it probably isn't going to be enough. This may be a reason why the color is not holding true for some. I don't know about the oil base paint colorant from paint stores. I think the colorant used here is interchangeable with coloring latex or oil. Also it's probably not made to be heated/cooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm going to stick to using the real deal colorant for now. I just got a batch from Bear's. You have to stir it well to mix up the pigment that settles along the bottom. There was a big difference in each bottle after I carefully made sure all pigment was mixed well. It settles kinda quick, so if you go a few day to a week or more, without using said color, just shaking it probably isn't going to be enough. This may be a reason why the color is not holding true for some. I don't know about the oil base paint colorant from paint stores. I think the colorant used here is interchangeable with coloring latex or oil. Also it's probably not made to be heated/cooked. Just drop a nut or two in your colorant bottle and shake away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie23 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Mike, What does DIMP stand for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 it is a plasticizer used in the plastic and often sold as worm oil. Diisononyl phthalate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixon529 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I may be mistaken, but I believe 152nd Street Baits (Richard) first posted this a couple years ago. http://www.dinp-facts.com/default.aspx?page=40 Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanmc Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 So it's DINP not DIMP. Good thing because when I looked up DIMP there was a reference to it being used in the production of sarin nerve gas. Talk about bad fumes! Where is DINP available in small quantities or is there anything else that would work for thinning a few colorants that seem to have thickened up some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Worm Oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Man, why did they put that M beside the N on the keyboard? One typo and I'm now carolinamike the bass terrorist Sorry about the typo guys, I promise I'm not trying to come up with a new fishing strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick'em Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 While were on the subject of dyes and pigments, I have a question about orange and chartreuse. I'm not getting a strong enough color out of them. They were regular colors and mixed pretty good. Is there a trick to adding yellow (for example), to the chartreuse? Or does it just take super amounts of these colorants to make a solid looking color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietfly Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I've had alot of success using RC hobby paints (the non water soluble ones), the lacquer based paints seem to leave the color and the rest of the stuff evaporates out. i just add a little more hardener to firm up the plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 While were on the subject of dyes and pigments, I have a question about orange and chartreuse. I'm not getting a strong enough color out of them. They were regular colors and mixed pretty good. Is there a trick to adding yellow (for example), to the chartreuse? Or does it just take super amounts of these colorants to make a solid looking color? yes it can take quite a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared2608 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Since you get colours that are powders, has any one tried to use Powder Paint, which I think is just poster paint that hasn't been mixed with water?? It's really cheap so I was wondering if you could use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHK Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Since you get colours that are powders, has any one tried to use Powder Paint, which I think is just poster paint that hasn't been mixed with water?? It's really cheap so I was wondering if you could use it? wont work as it will start melting into gooey blobs as soon as it hits the plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
