Sbaits Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Has anyone tried trim board where it appears to be two seperate peices glued together. Its rather soft its weight is roughly exactly half that of water. I've done a hang test with it where it held 50lbs for a day without a sign of budging but because it is soft repeated lifts from complete deloads resualts in catastrophic failure where the screw is pulled out entirely. I could epoxy it but my confidence in this has deteriated, due to my theory that the repeated lifting causes the hole to enlarge from the inisial awkward angle resulting in the failure. Not sure if epoxy will eliminate this or just prolong the enevitable. What's your thoughts, I'd hate to kill a trophy pike or musky due to neglagence. I have several ideas. 1. Epoxy and twist your own wire to make extra long screws 2. The above but slide a perpendiculare wire into the twists to create a T 3. The above but easier would be to cotter pin style it (no twist) but to take your tag ends and bend them out of the bait to create the T or L effect 4. Cut them in half and through wire... Not in half just a saw and some filler method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Instead of going to all that trouble why not just use the solid PVC? Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhopkins Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 " two seperate peices glued together". i am not aware of any manufacturer that glues the boards together . your picture shows what i think are voids in the board that occurs sometimes in the manufacturing process. i have found this sometimes in boards i get and the voids seem to be in the center of the board and run the entire length. don't know what causes this but i check the cut end of each board i buy to see if it has these voids. try drilling the screw hole off center and do the test. i do a through wire harness on all my baits so i don't have an issue with screws pulling out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhopkins Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Instead of going to all that trouble why not just use the solid PVC? Ben Ben, you watch that DVD yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 John, What kind of glue do you use to laminate the two halves back together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhopkins Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 John, What kind of glue do you use to laminate the two halves back together? Mark, i use 5min. epoxy. i tried pvc glue without any success. maybe using the wrong kind? also i trim off the hard exterior skin from the pvc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Thanks John. I actually do the same thing, but use D2T, and have never had an issue. I've always hated the smell of the PVC glue, so I avoid it whenever possible, and have never tried it for laminating baits. But I've read here on TU that it works, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Ben, you watch that DVD yet? Have watched it 3 times so far John and that's not counting the times I've gone back and watched certain parts of it. You really put a great instructional video together. I was amazed at your "dry brush" painting technique. I was thinking you airbrushed your lures until I watched the video. You folks who are thinking about building swimbaits should do yourself a favor and get a copy of John's DVD on how he builds them. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimb8s Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I agree with you Ben, Mr Hopkins has a great video for an amazing price packed with info to use, careful not to cut yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 So what kind of baits for Musky or Pike are you going to make with this pvc board anyway jerk baits or divers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 So what kind of baits for Musky or Pike are you going to make with this pvc board anyway jerk baits or divers? Anything you can build out of wood you can build out of PVC. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well that I knew lol... I was just wondering since if I was going to build divers... I would cut them in half and make thru wire construction but for certain jerk baits I would just make my own twist wire eyes longer and D2T them in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oksparks Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 What brand and for what usage is the PVC you are getting? My PVC doesn't look as rough as the PVC in your picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I noticed that the azek stuff that home depot sells has one side of it textured since it is trim board for houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) For toothy critters, like pike and musky, the AZEK decking is a little harder than the trim board, and would probably resist teeth better, although both are great for any lure build. I use the decking for all my jointed swimbaits and for my one piece topwaters. Al Lindner bit one of my AZEK decking swimbaits, and couldn't dent it. Plus, if a tooth does manage to break through the topcoat and paint, it won't matter, since the PVC is totally waterproof. I've fished baits with no paint at all, and caught fish. The trim board really shines for cranks because it is so buoyant. Cranks made of it back out of snags really well, almost as well as balsa. I noticed that the azek stuff that home depot sells has one side of it textured since it is trim board for houses. I sand or plane the textured and the smooth faces off during the shaping process. Edited March 29, 2012 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oksparks Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I noticed that the azek stuff that home depot sells has one side of it textured since it is trim board for houses. The Azek I got from the "interior molding" rack was smooth on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well that I knew lol... I was just wondering since if I was going to build divers... I would cut them in half and make thru wire construction but for certain jerk baits I would just make my own twist wire eyes longer and D2T them in I can't really say what's strong enough for muskies since I've never fished for them, but the PVC seems to be some pretty strong stuff. I would think that anything you built out of wood and used glued in twisted wire eyes in that they would also work for the PVC. I use twisted wire eyes and glue them in with super glue for bass lures. I've pulled on them pretty hard and none of them have failed yet. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbaits Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 " two seperate peices glued together".. try drilling the screw hole off center and do the test. I don't think they are actually glued together either, it just gives it an appearance of two halves melded together. I thought about the off centre trial but I believe its due how easy the would dents, a bit of an angle on the initial hole opens it up and causes it to blow out.... Actually I'm going to go test this theory.Instead of going to all that trouble why not just use the solid PVC? This is solid PVC, as for the other harder deck board stuff it was not white didn't come in the perfect width, it was massive 12' lengths, and I'd need a planer to get it smooth/down to size or I could belt sand it smooth or maybe just epoxy it smooth... I do need a planer that way I could go with larger stalk and really that giant board isn't that expensive as it would last a a decent length of time .So what kind of baits for Musky or Pike are you going to make with this pvc board anyway jerk baits or divers? I was mostly going to make gliders, and a few divers. Right now all of the blanks I cut are gliders. Im going to pick up some wood that is more dense than oak at a local store, the exotic woulds peaked my interest yesterday when I stopped by. Purpleheart and hickory are both harder than oak and their prices were on par.What brand and for what usage is the PVC you are getting? My PVC doesn't look as rough as the PVC in your picture.Sorry don't know, it was from Home Depot. The window guy was busy and the lumber guy wasn't sure because he didn't look after the trim boards.I've pulled on them pretty hard and none of them have failed yet. The part that scared me was that it passed a straight hanging test easily. The holes in the picure are both holes that easily held 50lbs for 24hrs, but both of them failed after I picked the same 50lbs up from the ground about a dozen times. Ripped the screws out like nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbaits Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Alright did some more testing. Test 1: Side lift at 50lbs Results: Failed at 21st lift with same 50lbs, hole was significantly larger as I anticipated but I was surprised that is lasted this long. Test 2: Max weight Results: Held 60, at 70lbs failed in about 10seconds. Summary of Findings: Weaker than spruce, using the same max weight test the same screw eye opened up between 90-95lbs where this pulls out before the screw eye failure point. PS. Sorry about the spelling, forgot to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 It's pretty clear from your testing that the PVC you bought isn't up to making lures. Try finding some AZEK. While it's not perfect, the AZEK decking doesn't have large voids in it. I have broken hardware before I could pull it out with a pair of needle nose pliers, once I'd glued it in with crazy glue or epoxy. The AZEK trim board has no voids. I'd suggest you try some tests using the same line and knots that you fish with to attach your weights. I find the line breaks long before my hardware has a chance to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I noticed that the azek stuff that home depot sells has one side of it textured since it is trim board for houses. Griffond, You don't need to plane off the texture or smooth factory finish before you begin building. I cut out the profile on a bandsaw, smooth the profile on my oscillating belt sander, and then trace a centerline around the bait body to use as a symmetry guide, to keep both sides even when I'm shaping with my sander. The sander, with a 50 grit belt, makes short work of the factory finish, and there's typically none left when I'm done rough shaping, and switch to 80 grit for more smoothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Not sure how your conducting your "side test" or how relevant it is. It's extremely hard for a fish to exert any side pull to a lure. The only way I can think of is if it manages to wrap your lure so tightly around something that there is no side to side movement left in the line. And given this situation the line breaking, hooks straightening out or the fish pulling off are much more likely to happen than a connector pulling out. Just my Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Well I would have to say depending on the size of the jerk baits... what your using for screw eyes? also are you going to put recessed washers on the lure as well to help hold those eyes in? Like most of the good quality musky lures in Minnesota have washers on them... you can buy a whole bag of them at menards for cheap just remember to prime and paint them since they are galvanized metal... also are you using screw eyes that you bought or are you making your own? I just ask because you can make much longer eyes your self and if you want them a little beefier just make a double eye then create the twist... and if you want it stronger then that just add a little silver solider to the seem. just my thoughts D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteL Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Not sure how your conducting your "side test" or how relevant it is. It's extremely hard for a fish to exert any side pull to a lure. The only way I can think of is if it manages to wrap your lure so tightly around something that there is no side to side movement left in the line. Picture this, Ben ... a screw eye (homemade or purchased) running horizontally for the line tie. For the belly hanger, another screw eye running vertically from the belly up towards the lure's back. A pull between the line tie and the belly hook results in a force that is nearly completely a side load (with reference to the screw eyes and their holes, that is. With reference to the lure, it's a forward/backward pull of 90 degrees). To avoid this situation, I try to angle the pointy end of the line tie screw eye downward toward the belly hook a bit, and angle the pointy end of the belly hanger screw eye forward toward the nose of the lure. This results in a more "in-line" pull between the line tie and belly hook. Using optimal tilt angles, the line tie, belly hook, and tail hook all happily become largely in-line pulls. Edited March 30, 2012 by PeteL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Picture this, Ben ... a screw eye (homemade or purchased) running horizontally for the line tie. For the belly hanger, another screw eye running vertically from the belly up towards the lure's back. A pull between the line tie and the belly hook results in a force that is nearly completely a side load (with reference to the screw eyes and their holes, that is. With reference to the lure, it's a forward/backward pull of 90 degrees). To avoid this situation, I try to angle the pointy end of the line tie screw eye downward toward the belly hook a bit, and angle the pointy end of the belly hanger screw eye forward toward the nose of the lure. This results in a more "in-line" pull between the line tie and belly hook. Using optimal tilt angles, the line tie, belly hook, and tail hook all happily become largely in-line pulls. I stand corrected. Hadn't thought of it like that. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
