bassguy Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've been challenged by a friend to build a lipless bait. (I think he wants a freebie) I've fished plenty of them but haven't given them a thought. Has anyone here on TU that has had success with this style of bait? If so what do I want to watch out for, and what about ballast? I did try search feature to find this info but to no avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy G Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 I was hoping that this one would catch fire. I am curious as well. Maybe some one will chime in soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheapTrix Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 If you are talking about lipless crankbaits, try doing a search for "Romans Nike lure". It is a saltwater lipless lure made by Floyd Roman in the late 1940's. I have had a lot of luck building these and they swim great. CheapTrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted April 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 The "Roman Nike lure" basically is a lipped bait only built into the bait due to the steep face. I was thinking more along the lines of the "Lewis Rat-L-Trap". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crankpaint Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 look up lipless crank baits and you should get some hits on them i've seen a few in here you want to keep most of the weight up in the head(front 1/3rd of the lure) for them to work right hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodfish Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Hey Guys, were you going to re-design a lipless lure or copy an existing design? and will it be solid or chambered? bodfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Here are my thoughts on it. I was thinking of building one a couple months ago, asked on here and got a couple responses. I don't think too many people build them! But I bought a couple plastic blanks and looked at howthey are weighted. Here is what I plan on doing. I will build it out of pvc. It will be cut in half, and drilled out in the upper rear section so I can add rattles. The weight needs to be very low in the lure and run from. the lip til about the hook hanger. However, I have never tried to build one, but I will eventually and that's how I will start! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I would use a rattle trap as a template, and try to match the shape and hardware positions. Then I'd belly weight it between the nose and the front hook hanger, and see how it runs. Having the line tie in the middle+- of the back is what makes it swim the way it does. Look at a silver buddy for an idea of the weighting. They are a metal version of a rattle trap, or vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 So your trying to make a lipless bait that sinks or at least goes down... a little bit? What size bait would be the other question. Bass bait, northern/musky bait... ? My suggestion would be for a starter lure would be to look at Diemi's banana type lures... or Lazy Ike style... it has a built in lip persay but it doesn't require a lexon lip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I would use a rattle trap as a template, and try to match the shape and hardware positions. Then I'd belly weight it between the nose and the front hook hanger, and see how it runs. Having the line tie in the middle+- of the back is what makes it swim the way it does. Look at a silver buddy for an idea of the weighting. They are a metal version of a rattle trap, or vice versa. Mark, this is what I was thinking, ballast being the question on how the bait works. Thanks for all the replies. Now to find the time. The TU brotherhood rocks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I've been challenged by a friend to build a lipless bait. (I think he wants a freebie) I've fished plenty of them but haven't given them a thought. Has anyone here on TU that has had success with this style of bait? If so what do I want to watch out for, and what about ballast? I did try search feature to find this info but to no avail. Made these about 18 months back- I needed a slow shallow lure for a certain fish here, these are 7cm (2 3/4") long and swim with a steady 'sway'. They worked but needed to be heavy to make them neutral in salt. Pete Edited April 10, 2012 by hazmail 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thats a really neat design... how long are those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 I've sometimes cracked my brains about making such designs like the "Ratt'L'Trap" or "Rapala Rattlin' Rap"(though I've never had much success with these) , .........never put my thoughts to practice though ! I think , the key to success of such lures are their super loud rattles , which I think cannot be mounted into a timber, PVC or even resin-cast blank , ........one can get the vibrating action at home , maybe also even assemble a smaller rattle chamber , ..... no problem about that , .........but never achieve the "real" loud sound of these commercial baits , period ! Unless working down lure kits of hard plastic , ...glueing two halves together with a lot of BB's inside , ...such kits are available at some component stores . Here is another bait of this style , .......quite old design , .......and , as far as I'm concerned , ...does not have any rattles : http://www.landbigfish.com/showcase.cfm?PID=4331 just my , .........greetz , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Dieter, That lure looks like a rattle trap! Good find. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 I actually own a couple of those lures... there in an antique tackle box around here somewhere they actually worked pretty good for bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Nice find Dieter. I had forgotten all about the Bayou Boogie. It's been around for a long time. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firechief Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 This bait reminds me of the "Pico Perch" I have made two thus far and am fairly satisfied with the results. I used a Rattle Trap as the template and modified it from there. The ones I have made have the ballast forward of center line so that the nose is down somewhat. It sinks very slowly ( 1 ft / 9 sec ). The only down side thus far is that I cant burn the bait on retrieve. I have to have a steady medium retrieve or it wants to flatten out just a bit. So What!! Made it out of bass wood. Calculated ballast with "dunk test" learned here. I had to add 3g of weight for almost neutral bouyancy hence the slow rate of sink. The overall weight is 8g with hooks. One thing I did learn was that I can also change ballast with hook size to some small degree. I put a bigger hook on the belly to acentuate the nose down attitude. Overall I am pleased. The other thing that I learned is that if I start square and mark center lines that things work out easier in the end. Tie eye is on top right where the angle of the front starts to taper off. Much like a Pico perch or a Bayou Boogie. I actually am having better luck with lipless baits than ones with a bib. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaPala Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Will this help (click)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 That is a sweet bait LaPala, but a little too complex for my shop, so I'll use Mark's idea about the rattle trap template. As far as the rattles; I'm not going to worry about that aspect of the bait. The hooks and split rings will make some noise, or maybe a weight transfer system and the weight transfer will give it some "life". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 That is a sweet bait LaPala, but a little too complex for my shop, so I'll use Mark's idea about the rattle trap template. As far as the rattles; I'm not going to worry about that aspect of the bait. The hooks and split rings will make some noise, or maybe a weight transfer system and the weight transfer will give it some "life". I've often wondered about using a "silent" lure of this type when everybody and his brother are throwing baits that rattle. I can remember being in the Black Forest area on Sam Rayburn one spring and there were so many people throwing rattle baits that I could actually feel the vibrations through the bottom of the boat. You just might have a winner building a silent "rattle" bait. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I've often wondered about using a "silent" lure of this type when everybody and his brother are throwing baits that rattle. I can remember being in the Black Forest area on Sam Rayburn one spring and there were so many people throwing rattle baits that I could actually feel the vibrations through the bottom of the boat. You just might have a winner building a silent "rattle" bait. Ben Stained to murky water, rattles are great, but I wonder whether they are a hindrance when fishing clear water? The lipless LV 500 made by Lucky Craft probably make the most racket. You CAN hear the buzz it puts out as it gets closer to the boat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I've often wondered about using a "silent" lure of this type when everybody and his brother are throwing baits that rattle. I can remember being in the Black Forest area on Sam Rayburn one spring and there were so many people throwing rattle baits that I could actually feel the vibrations through the bottom of the boat. You just might have a winner building a silent "rattle" bait. Ben Haven't thought about this , Ben , ......surely it would pay off to go different , ...often recommended in terms of other lure types as well , anyway ! I've said , that I haven't had much success with these baits before , ...........I can only think of a nice perch on a "Rattlin' Rapala" and a small pike on a burnt "Rat'L'Trap" on a day when nothing else could stir them up . But what I do remember is one occassion , when my wife and myself where vertical jigging below the boat at about 45 feet depth , .......I had a 3" fast-sinking "Rat'L'Trap" on the line and my wife used a small homemade jigging spoon of lead . I could clearly observe on my sonar that the loud rattlebait seemed to call the perch to come by and investigate , ....nevertheless they would not bite it but strike my wife's jigger dancing across the bottom right next to them . After having observed this for the first time , we often utilized this tactics some times again with success to fill the bucket with tasty perch . greetz , Dieter Edited April 12, 2012 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodfish Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hey guys, Rattleless lures are one of the popular "new" (old?) techniques in fishing recently. So much so the that I see many mainstream manufacturers offering Rattleless versions of their lures now as a "new" (old?) sales feature. I have never been a big fan of rattles and very rarely use them. I have either removed, disabled, muffled, modified or replaced the rattles in virtually ALL of my lures. I have fished here in the clear drinking water reservoirs of Southern California where loud lures can be a distinct disadvantage. bodfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Look at Lapala's handiwork and a few things should jump out at you. #1 basic shape. #2 line tie and front hook placement. #3 Heavy concentration of ballast in front. These should be enough to get going in the right direction. A couple things to play with might be cross sectional shapes. Widest at top and narrow at belly, or just the opposite, they both should work. A rattle trap is wider and flat at the top, while a metal blade bait has the wide weight at the bottom. Also, overall length, shape and rear hook position will all factor in greatly in frequency of vibration. 2 Cents, Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I actually built several shallow running baits, 3' max. depth, that are flat sided, wiggle like crazy, and have no rattles. They are 3/8oz floaters with square bills set at a 45 degree angle, so they dive on the retrieve, but not deep. I wanted a bait that I could burn and still have it stay at a constant depth. I built them to run fast over the tops of grass, and over points. They get bit, even in mud lines and off colored water. Edited April 13, 2012 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
