Richard Prager Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 That's one thing that sucks about this business/hobby................anything new that is a potential money maker is copied without being thought twice about. You make your 300 units and it will be copied and for sale before you even sell them all to break even. It's a shame but that's reality. You might just have to take it to the grave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Seems like you were asking for opinions and interest. I think most gave their honest opinion. I think your idea is as least 10 years old. Not many hand pour anymore since injecting became popular. The Stick market is so flooded and people sell them cheap. I think you said it will not do laminates. For $1000 you can get a bears injection machine that does laminates and with enough molds will out perform yours. And 2.5 cup capacity is way too small. That is my honest opinion. Sorry if it is not warm and fuzzy and sugar coated. ...Bill Edited June 26, 2012 by MonteSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 The 2.5 cup was the big downfall for me. I can pour 2.5 cups in about 5 minutes. I wouldn't want to wait another 10-15 minutes for it to heat another batch, then pour for 5 minutes and have to wait another 10-15 minutes. The biggest downfall for marketability is that hand pour sticks are a think of the past. Now that everyone is offering injection molds there is no need to hand pour. You can inject sticks with higher salt content and get perfect baits every time, much faster than hand pouring. Not to mention you can buy bears complete presto system for what, $200 I think it is? With that you can put a half gallon of plastic in there and pour perfect sticks one after another just as fast as your $600 machine. Plus you can use it to make baits other than sticks. Like I said before, you missed the mark by about 5 years. 5 years ago I bet those things would fly off the shelves. Now, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadfrog Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I have an open mind on the subject . Awh the intrigue of it all . I have formed an Idea of what he means in my (shall we say unusual brain) . I can also see where it would be benificial given the right parameters . I wish I could work with it under the strictest confidetuality . But since I'm stuck in BFE that chance is nill . I love experimenting . Most folks know that is about all I get done . Ya gotta love it . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBHUFFY1 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 The unit, a 9" base with an adjustable fence was going to be priced at approximately $600...I would need to sell at least 300 units to break even on my investment and from all the warmth on this thread I just dont think I will take the risk. Sorry on the video...that will not happen, I have spent many, many years perfecting a mixing system and a valving unit and to place a video of it for someone else to copy my work is not going to happen...hope ya understand. The unit, a 9" base with an adjustable fence was going to be priced at approximately $600...I would need to sell at least 300 units to break even on my investment and from all the warmth on this thread I just dont think I will take the risk. Sorry on the video...that will not happen, I have spent many, many years perfecting a mixing system and a valving unit and to place a video of it for someone else to copy my work is not going to happen...hope ya understand. What are the smoke fumes like? Is it water cooled? Can you fill with heated plastic? Sounds interesting, except for the 2 1/2 cup part. That amount won't heat up my molds. I can inject a gallon in less than 15 minutes if I have someone demolding for me. There is already an injection machine similar to the one you described, but at a higher pricetag. If yous can be adapted to injection, it just might be a plausable investment. Adaptability would help market it greatly. Injection could be used for so many different molds. As far as the stickbait market being a thing of the past, I really don't think so. Just a saturated market. Simple supply/demand. 500/hr without waste even sounds great, but mathmaticly not correct for a 5 second cycle time when you include a refill of plastic. I would be in if that were viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I guess me and toadfrog are the one in the minority. You all see it for what it is and not what it can be. Lets just shoot all the new ideas down and just keep pouring from Kitchen equipment. And pour PERFECT baits everytime. Like that always happens. Dont you see he said he can pour baits with 50% salt, can it be done EASILY with a presto pot? As for the 2.5 cups well that can be gotten around if he were to be given the right feed back, but no we have to just say it is not big enough and move on. I for one dont pour sticks and it still seems like a good idea for other reasons, like cutting down on plastic costs. Why did no one see that point? Tha big guys do it. Can it be pressurised dont know because of all the nay sayers. Maybe not faster maybe less smoke and maybe not. How do we all know? I would love to see it. What it can do is all up to the user. He saw it one way but someone else may see it another. A new idea is priceless that is what it is worth. Frank 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I too like to see innovative ideas, but before you can get a constructive response, you will have to put out a video. The video does not have to give away any secrets, you can box off all the heaters, valves and any other gear that gives the game away. The video has to show the loading of the raw materials to the first pours, in one shot, so that the pourer's can get an idea of the time and simplicity. pour half a dozen cavities and de-mold to show the quality. Show the cleaning and preparation process necessary before the next load. The main concerns are the 2.5 cup capacity, could this feasibly be increased. Also multi color pouring, I realize that this would be two complete machines strapped together, but is it possible. Well done for bringing your idea to to life with working prototypes. Everyone has ideas but very few make the effort to breathe life into their innovations. I think there are enough forward thinking people here to justify bringing a video to the table, it would be a shame to shelve the idea without demonstrating the idea's potential. Good luck to you. Dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Just sittin here in the dark with all kinds of questions but do not see that any answers would be forth comming ... Since the 60's I have seen a lot of things come & go ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Why don't you pour up a batch and post the photos of the baits only, along with the particulars about mix, quantity, and time involved? That way you get a chance to at least show what you can do. Coming up with new ideas is fun. Developing them and bringing them to market is expensive. Protecting them, if they truly are good ideas, is next to impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camrynekai Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 What are the smoke fumes like?Depends on how hot U run it just like with any other unit....how ever mine has a PID temp control and will keep temp + or - 1deg. of set value.Is it water cooled????? its a plastic melter/mixer/dispenser why would one water cool it?Can you fill with heated plastic? Yes or it wouldn't be very efficient to wait for each batch to heat up.Sounds interesting, except for the 2 1/2 cup part. That amount won't heat up my molds. I can inject a gallon in less than 15 minutes if I have someone demolding for me.Again, I'm not looking to fill the needs of large quantities....this is a small unit that can put out a salt/plastic mix that is as accurate as humanly possible from the first drop to the last. I guess being a successful Bass Tournament angler and seeing/using most of the crappy and inconsistent stick baits that are available is more where my unit comes to play.There is already an injection machine similar to the one you described, but at a higher pricetag. If yous can be adapted to injection, it just might be a plausable investment. Adaptability would help market it greatly. Injection could be used for so many different molds.Not interested in doing that...this is geared towards small to mid sized hand pour company's and to the 1000's of fisherman that basement pour.As far as the stickbait market being a thing of the past, I really don't think so. Just a saturated market. Simple supply/demand. 500/hr without waste even sounds great, but mathmaticly not correct for a 5 second cycle time when you include a refill of plastic. I would be in if that were viable.Sorry ...but I pour that rate every day so ummmmmm your not correct in that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deziner Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I suppose now I am one of those "1000's of fisherman that basement pour". I can certainly see that having something that would produce a consistent product would be valuable to a guy who is pouring his own worms, but the cost of such a device would probably render that mute. I fish enough to go through bags of worms, and senkos do cost a bit per bag. But at $600 dollars, it would take me a while to recover that investment. I realize that's only 125 bags of senkos, but that would take me several years to go through. I regularly fish 5 inch kuttails. I've been fishing them for years, and I bet I haven't used 125 bags. I'm guessing (just guessing) that guys who are going through that many worms don't have time to make their own worms. With all that said, I'm not the market anyway. I pour oz's of plastic at a time. But it seems to me, someone would be interested in your invention, but 300 seems ambitious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerworm Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 it appears that there may be an interest or so at 2 to 1. but bear in mind just because 1 out of 3 people might be interested how many would actually go ahead and purchase the unit is unforeseen and cannot be predicted with any certainty. if you have made something that works for you and you are confident in its abilities then by all means go ahead and put it on the market. when questions like this are asked there is no correct answer as you are asking for opinions and most of these threads get sidetracked by such. take no offense here but if it works judt do it or enjoy it all to yourself because what works for you probably wont work for everyone kinda like fords and chevys. we have a customer that likes his stick baits at a 50% salt ratio and we make his store 2500 a month and i have personally done more than 6 orders for him that i went all the way without making 1 bad bait and thats unheard of as anything is when you put human involvement into the equation. these were all 7 and 10" sticks by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 The topic of the post is "How much would be too much?" the actual post ended with "How much would you pay?" when you knew from the begining you have to have $600 per unit and sell $180,000 worth to make your investment worth while. I think if you would've stated this in the begining you would have gotten better responces. The idea is new for the smaller folks but all of your large production machines not only circulate material from bottom to top but it also stirs it at the same time. I can do the same thing as this machine and produce 40 baits every 2 minutes (demolded) and all I do is mash a button. I'm all open for new products, there is one or two new machines premireing at Icast this year, but when you say you have something that is the best and produces the best product, from a manufactorer's point of view you should have some visual details about the product. Sounds like this gentleman is very inovative and at the start of a very good idea and I think there has been some very good comments made in this thread but I think a lot of it has been taken as critism when it should be looked at as consumer advice Camrynekai, sounds to me like you're on your way. For 600 bucks you know your consumers want something that can produce a large amount of baits to help pay for itself, but you've got to be open minded when you say you have something new. I'm glad you posted this thread there is alot of skilled guys on here and even though there were probably some things said that you didnt like you did hear what the need of the consumer was. Use your inovvation and your skills to fill these needs, don't just say "I don't like what i read" and stop your development of something new but take it all in with an open mind and fill the nich. This is how small companies turn into large companies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferree Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Nicely said CarolinaMike!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 X2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBHUFFY1 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I said I'm in if it can do the 500/hr with 50 percent salt. At that rate, it would pay for itself pretty quick. Let's see some video or pictures. Maybe there are a few that would help with the development. Shoot, you could even get a video to a big producer( from the forum) for a little help. Pretty sure several are under non-disclosure agreements. I would think that should cover things for you. Who knows, they might even help with an idea or two on how to cut production costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 The average profit per stick is about $0.10 in this market. You would have to sell 6000 sticks to break even. For the guy that is going to make 6000 sticks, for the "average basement pourer" with 1 mold that would be over 8 hours of constant pouring to break even. That 8 hours does not figure in demolding. So if we figure that one mold the "basement pourer" has takes 3 minutes to cool, that is an additional 75 hours. So it will take well over 80 hours of pouring to pay it off for the average home guy with one mold, but wait this is not taking into count the time it takes for the plastic to heat.. so add more time. Now most people are going to say, guys that sell them have more than one mold. Yup, you are right. But guys that sell them are also going to want at least a half gallon capacity bare minimum. Its caught between two markets. One- the guy who pours for himself which is going to take years to pay off. Or Two- the guy who pours for profit and this machine is not set up for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
