Frank Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Just really wondering what are the real differances. I know the big machines use heat exchangers and most of us use micros and prestos. But can the big machines inject at real low temps? Like in the low 300s or does the exchanger have to get hotter to set off the plastic. I am actually hoping MIke will get in on this because he has been mentioning specific things on a mold that he has changed. One thing was the gate to the bait. He says to open them up. Well when I was at Icast this year i saw molds from Basstackle and Zorn. The first thing I noticed was the real small gates on the Zorn. The Basstackle one was just like the ones we all get. Just wondering if that is why people are saying to hold pressure on the mold has filled to reduce denting. Is this a product of small gates? The reason I say this is that I never hold pressure on a mold it is pretty much shoot and move on. Denting for me at least happens just after heating plastic. In fact I wait till they cool a bit and begin. Why do most people that are in the business resist the idea of a hot holding pot in a machine. The ones I have talked to want to go from heat exchanger to the mold and done. Seems to me the temps are higher and pose differant issues that what most of us run into. Just a thought. Dont really believe the size of the mold has much to do with it but maybe it does. I know Mike is probably the only one here that actualy uses a big machine but maybe someone out there has something to add. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Frank a big machine has a lot more control than your hobbyist equipment. Yes you can shoot in the low 300s and the thing about using heat exchangers is you keep the integrity of the material. You've got to remember the material only sits still in the heat exchangers for a minute or two. So your plastic has a very short time period between heating and cooling. That's the reason runners work so well as remelts. It's not like they've been sitting in a pot heated up and ready to go for any amount of time. As far as the size of the gates on a bait go, that is according to the size of the bait and the shape. But as big as you can make it and still have a breaking point is best. You can ask any moldmaker. The quicker you can get the material in the cavity, at the largest flow possible, it's going to retain heat and help you create a better product. And keep in mind when I say these things, that they are from a large production point of view. But this is passed along to me from people that's been in this business for over 30 years. You can only hold pressure on the bait for as long as the gate stays open. Once the plastic cools at the gate, you have lost your ability to hold anymore pressure on the bait. What you have is what you get. The bigger the gate, the slower it will cool and the longer it will remain open. When you ask about a hot holding pot for a machine there again, you're talking about the material sitting for some amount of time already heated. The longer it sits heating, the more of its integrity it will lose. Some of the older machines are made with a pouring pot style vessel but they are for raw unheated material only to feed heat exchangers. Also Frank, if your matieral was already heated and you're doing work with a large machine, then this material would have to be kept stirred. As you know, already heated plastic incorporates air very easily. Why would you not want to go directly to the heat exchanger? It is made for heating the plastic. It just wouldn't make sense to heat the plastic and then put it into the heat exchanger. All you would be doing is allowing for time for your components such as salt and flake to settle. Continous moving of material is what we strive for. The longer my machine runs the better it runs. When you're pumping directly to the heat exchanger, your raw material is constantly being agitated and circulated. The material sits in the heat exchanger heated and ready to go for probably a maximum of 3 to 3 1/2 minutes for most standard baits. All the things that you've mentioned have been tried over the years. The new machines just make for better products when it comes to producing large volumes for a retail outlet. The size of the mold plays a very important part in the size heat exchanger you will need. Most everyone with machines either use a 2lb or 4lb heat exchanger. So take my crappie flick tail for instance, 1 1/2 inches long 200 cavities to the mold. If I was to try to shoot this mold with a 4lb heat exchanger and use some other color besides black, then all I would turn out would be crap. The mold has to be big enough to keep constant moving of material in order to make a quality product. I have one mold that in order for me to keep enough plastic hot and ready to go, I have to shoot solid colors in the laminte mode so I'm pulling plastic from both 4lb heat exchangers at the same time. The rule of thumb is you want to try to empty out half the heat exchanger per shot. I know this is long but it was about the only way to answer your question and not get everyone else confused at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I was expecting a long answer. And I do understand the idea of heat exchangers. Without getting into it too much Thank you for the answers. Just was thinking about a way to reuse all of the runners on a big machine design. I have a couple of customers that want to help in a big way for me to get bigger but now is not the time. Maybe soon. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Frank, you would never be able to use all of your runners and turn out a quality product. What I mean by that is if you use runners to create more runners, then you start losing the integrity of your materials. You can only use your runners for a certain number of times. The big boys have been trying to figure out for years how to feed runners or already formed plastic directly to the heat exchangers. The problem and the hurdle that everyone is trying to get past is air intrapment or air incorporation. On my machines I can use up to 20% re-grinds in the raw material but it needs to be a fine grind, but I would'nt use runners made from re-grind materials because this makes crappy products and that goes back to the way the material is heated. It goes from raw material to ready to use material very rapidly. If you are really looking at getting bigger, then PM me or call me, I might have some information that you would be interested in. Edited September 13, 2012 by carolinamike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
