RayburnGuy Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) After doing much reading in the archives I decided to give building a crankbait that will hunt a try. Fortunately I'm really close with the first try. About as close as one can get with testing in the bathtub. About the time the bait starts to wander to one side I run out of room. Will have to do more testing when I can get out to a friends pond. The bait was built out of PVC so repeated testing could be done without continually having to reseal the bait. My question is will the paint and clear coat alter the action enough to overpower everything I've done so far? thanks guys, Ben p.s. Many thanks to guys like Skeeter, LaPala, Vodkaman, The Lure Professor, BobP and soooooo many more for sharing their insight into building cranks that hunt. Edited September 12, 2012 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Can't say about hunters but swim test everything I build before paint. Unless it is a really small bait they all have pretty much the same action after paint and topcoat as before. Even the small ones action stays the same but sometimes a floater turns into a suspender or worse sinker. If I we're you, I would try the bait in some deeper water before finishing. Really need to see the whole action to truly know what you have. What sort of hunter are you building? A shallow wanderer or a deeper darting bait like a wiggle wart. Maybe something totally new? Good luck !! Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I don't think paint and a topcoat will have any effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Some of the baits I build hunt, although not deliberately. When testing the bait to see how it floats, they sometimes list to one side or the other. By adding just enough weight to make it sit "square" to the surface of the water, will make the bait hunt. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Thanks guys. I'm trying to build a shallow hunter Vic. From what I've read there is a very fine line between a bait that will hunt and one that either tracks true or one that blows out. The question asked about the paint and clear coat altering the action. A better way to have asked that would have been to ask if it altered the balance enough to change the action. But I guess since your proportionately increasing the mass of the whole bait (even though very minutely) it wouldn't have much of an effect on the way the lure is balanced. This build is more an experiment in building technique than anything else. I'm out of balsa at the moment and that is one of the reasons this one was built out of PVC. The PVC doesn't allow much room for experimenting with ballast as it's already close to neutral buoyancy by the time you add all the hardware. On this particular bait there's only about 4 grams to play with before it becomes a sinker. Balsa is going to be the best material for a hunter since it has a much greater buoyancy which translates into a livelier action. thanks again for the help, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Unfortunately in my experience, the top coat will disturb the action. The good news is that it will be knocked bact to a normal swimmer. You may get away with it and I hope you do! Be sure to let us know what happens. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 For me, putting 3 layers of clearcoat on my 8''glidebaits changes the action. They're not as subtle. This is why now I only put 2. On my lipped baits of the same size I keep 3 and it makes no difference since the bill commands the action. If I was going to make a hunter personally, I'd start off by offsetting the ballast more to one side of the bait instead of dead center and then compensate with the line tie to make it track. I'd be very curious to know how it turns out RBG. s54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Thanks guys. I'll definitely keep your ideas in mind. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I didn't weigh the brick mold pvc to check it for weight, but it seems very light compared to wood. On my 5 ounce musky lures 2.5 ounces of that was lead to make it sink. (Slightly more than sink) Musky Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Ben I think it really depends on how much paint and the top coat used. From what i know (admitingly not much) a hunting lure needs to be built exactly "wrong"!!! any small changes will give it a different result. I light 1 coat of DN may not alter it that much but 2-3 coats of DN along with multiple coats of acrylic will increase the weight on a smaller crank enough to possibly bring it back to stability kinda like Dave said "normal" action. Not to mention a coat or 2 of epoxy and that can really throw u off. You may be able to take a similar bait, weigh it, then paint and TC exactly as you would with the prototype weigh it again and subtract that from the ballast. Problem is that paint and TC add a small precentage of weight all over and in my thought you would be only taking that back away from the ballast location so ... sorry i guess this was just a rambling session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 ". sorry i guess this was just a rambling session" As Led Zeppelin would say "Ramble On"...sorry had to do it. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 No worries guys. Some of my best ideas (and greatest disasters) come from just sitting and thinking and wondering about stuff. And we never know when someone will say something that will trigger a thought that solves everything. Thanks for taking an interest. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 When hunters come up in discussion, it is often said that build it off center is the way to go. Although this might be one way to do it, my findings are that for a bait to hunt properly, everything has to be perfectly aligned. The problem with the topcoat is not the weight, but the extra surface thickness. This spoils the balance between the body and the lip. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarfall Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 (edited) from my experience there are few points that will help you get a hunting action to a bait, first of all the material that you use has to be very light, so balsa would suit the purpose perfectly, secondly you have to keep everything light on the bait including the wire harness down to hooks and hook rigs. i've found that baits that are relatively symmetrical in shape, something like rapala original is a good shape to produce the hunting action the easiest compared to others, others do work too but require a lot more tinkering. and lastly the swimming lip your using is critical, over here in Finland trout trollers use a saddle lips to get a erratic hunting action to there baits, but others do work too like a totally round lip does produce that action too when its put in the right angle. also you can sometimes turn normal baits into once that have a hunting action by tuning the hook eyes from the belly and from the tail end of a bait. and sometimes if you sharpen the other side of the lip to cut more water it turns the bait into a bait that has the hunting action. Edited September 15, 2012 by solarfall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Thanks guys. Still haven't been able to test anything I've built so far, but am keeping track of all advice. Appreciate the help. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigmeister Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 I got this idea to make a " Hunting crankbait " test model with a tunable /adjustable weight system so I could change weights and or locations and discover the secrets of just what made a crankbait hunt . I carved it out of balsa using the large size plastic Big "O" as a model . When it was ready I cast it into the pool with no ballast weight added in the special chambers I had built into my test lure . To my surprise it ran great hunting left and right +/- 1-2 feet to the sides . No matter how I positioned or added weights it still hunted the same . I had to laugh because it seemed I could do nothing to make the darn thing stop hunting . I have no idea why it hunts so the whole excercise was a waste . Just my luck I guess ..........Jigmeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinorf Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 A long time back; I read that a hunting balsa crank bait has the ballast weight high up near the centerline. Seems to lessen roll stabilty. I have by accident seen this to be true with baits I drilled out to reduce fall rate. By drilling out ballast, the lead that was left was higher in the body, and the bait rolled easily. Hmmm. Wish I could remember where I read that. Gettin old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) WOW..... you guys are too scientific for me. I know how to make a hunting crankbait. And I will tell you that I have not found a way to consistantly make a crankbait that will hunt. Some do and some don't. It is part of the allure of making these beauties. But, my success rate at building one is pretty high. I won't tell you how I do it, but I will tell you that you can toss all of this special off center weighting and stuff out the door. So build your baits as true as possible. Plus... don't worry about the thickness of your clearcoats. It can affect how it hunts, but it will not affect whether the bait will hunt or not. The shift in the action is not severe. It is a subtle shift and it is not predictable. In all of the years that have been making crankbaits there has only been one person that has gotten it right on how to make a crankbait hunt. It was a Japanese pro. And he hit the nail right on the head. Skeeter Edited October 11, 2012 by Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I bought one of the KVD square bills that hunts, and it looks like they achieve it by having the ballast ball behind the belly hanger float in a crosswise chamber, so it moves erratically from one side to the other, while the same size ballast ball in front of the hook hanger is locked in position. I'm guessing that would achieve the moving center of gravity, without throwing the bait too far out of tune. I think that also might make it easier to vary the weight of the paint scheme and top coat without affecting the hunting action. I haven't tried that method yet, but it's rattling around in my head, on my "to do" list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Thanks Mark...The one I bought did not hunt any. Maybe just my bad luck......... The old wiggle warts had moving ballast balls too. These were known to hunt . I guess one solution would be oversize low hanging swinging balls. I have seen a few folks with this problem and they had a problem moving in a straight line too. It's all starting to make sense to me now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Makes sense Mark. Will have to give that a try. Thanks. Vic, I never knew until now what was causing me to wobble when I walked. Wonder if duct tape will stop the wobble? Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Ohh,, Hi Ben. You know, I wasn't going to call anyone out on this but since you brought it up........Why haven't you thought of this sooner? How is it hanging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ohh,, Hi Ben. How is it hanging? Low and a little to the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Some people are allergic to the adhesive in duct tape, so be careful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjalake Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) WOW..... you guys are too scientific for me. I know how to make a hunting crankbait. And I will tell you that I have not found a way to consistantly make a crankbait that will hunt. Some do and some don't. It is part of the allure of making these beauties. But, my success rate at building one is pretty high. I won't tell you how I do it, but I will tell you that you can toss all of this special off center weighting and stuff out the door. So build your baits as true as possible. Plus... don't worry about the thickness of your clearcoats. It can affect how it hunts, but it will not affect whether the bait will hunt or not. The shift in the action is not severe. It is a subtle shift and it is not predictable. In all of the years that have been making crankbaits there has only been one person that has gotten it right on how to make a crankbait hunt. It was a Japanese pro. And he hit the nail right on the head. Skeeter You know how to make a crankbait hunt, but you won't tell us how you do it? Gee thanks. Seriously, why would you even post that? And also- "In all of the years that have been making crankbaits there has only been one person that has gotten it right on how to make a crankbait hunt."? Only one person? I think there's alot of old crankers in Tenn & NC who would seriously disagree with that statement. who are you referring too? Or our you not going to tell us that either? Hajime Oguri? Edited October 13, 2012 by ninjalake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
