A Couple Questions On Building A Hunting Crank

[ninjalake]

It was an accident, it started running to the left so I got to bending on the line line tie to straighten it, accidently bending the split ring end straight in the process(as seen in the pic). I don't know if that straight split ring end is what causes it or not. i'll try it on another bait

[Vodkaman]

A hunting flatside crank, that's cool! I've never seen or heard of that, how about posting up some photos or a little video of it swimming whenever you get a chance, I'd like to see that.

Will do. Give me a few days, need to get water permission as my tank is decommissioned with rot.

 

Dave

[BobP]

If you're looking for a golden BB solution for a hunting bait, I don't think one exists.  You need to consider the whole bait:  the body shape, the lip shape and size, and the amount and position of the ballast, and getting it to work takes trial and error.  I've built series of baits that were mostly hunters.  The problem I ran into was that while 70% would hunt, I would also get 20% that would not and 10% that were untunable trash can rejects.  And I felt that was a decent success rate compared to most of the bait lines I've fished.  My general approach was to build a crank that is on the edge of instability, but not so near the edge that it will blow out or plane off at high speed.  Once I got there, frankly I backed off the gas because the 20% that wouldn't hunt and especially the 10% that were total rejects made it a frustrating exercise.  I don't water test each and every bait that I give away, so I didn't want to be handing out those 10% duds.  And honestly, it took a lot of discipline to build them - maybe more discipline than I want to exercise as a hobby builder.

 

I'm happy if serendipity strikes and I get an occasional hunter, in shallow bait models.  But on most baits I'm more interested in the pulse action (thump) I feel when retrieving the bait.  If it's very distinct and regular, I'm happy.  Maybe it's just my personal bias but I think you can tell blindfolded whether a bait will catch fish, catch lots of fish, or mostly be ignored by bass - by educating your hands on the retrieve feel of different baits.

[Vodkaman]

A hunting flatside crank, that's cool! I've never seen or heard of that, how about posting up some photos or a little video of it swimming whenever you get a chance, I'd like to see that.

As promised, here is a short video. No big production, straight out of the can.

 

 

Dave

[hazmail]

Looking good Dave,seems like the perfect Zig-Zag.

Pete

[Brent R]

Hey Dave....What's it going to cost for you to tell everyone how to build a crankbait that will hunt. I don't build baits myself, but you could save everyone a lot of time and trouble and may be a marriage or two. I know that everyone looks up to you because of your skills and talents. Not to mention that your a all around great guy.

 

By the way great job on the bait and video.

 

take care, Brent

[RayburnGuy]

Looking good Dave,seems like the perfect Zig-Zag.

Pete

 

X2

[Vodkaman]

It is kind of an unwritten rule that you don't give the hunting theory away. Believe me, I would love to and anyone who has followed my posts will know that I love to share.

 

Everyone who builds lures has come across the 'hunting' phenomenom. It is there for everyone to grab and not far away from your normal builds. The secret of building consistent hunters, is understanding what causes the hunt. Once you understand the cause, it is easy to design a lure to hunt.

 

Any crankbait body design can be made to hunt. The reason I built this flat sided crank was that someone said that flats do not hunt.

 

This particular lure is Bawal 7, a predecessor to Bawal 12, for which I posted a construction video. Don't waste your time copying it, like I said, any crank body design will hunt, it has nothing to do with body shape.

 

Dave

[diemai]

@ Vodkaman

 

Thanks for sharing this little clip , Dave , ........a very picturesque demonstration of the hunting action .

 

I had assumed , that it would be like this , but now I know for sure !

 

                          greetz , Dieter

[bluetickhound]

It is kind of an unwritten rule that you don't give the hunting theory away. Believe me, I would love to and anyone who has followed my posts will know that I love to share.

 

Everyone who builds lures has come across the 'hunting' phenomenom. It is there for everyone to grab and not far away from your normal builds. The secret of building consistent hunters, is understanding what causes the hunt. Once you understand the cause, it is easy to design a lure to hunt.

 

Any crankbait body design can be made to hunt. The reason I built this flat sided crank was that someone said that flats do not hunt.

 

This particular lure is Bawal 7, a predecessor to Bawal 12, for which I posted a construction video. Don't waste your time copying it, like I said, any crank body design will hunt, it has nothing to do with body shape.

 

Dave

Is it ballast placement?

[Vodkaman]

Bluetickhound - I am sure by now, after reading all the comments on this marvelous thread, you have realized that there is more than one solution to the hunting problem:

 

I like Mark's shifting ballast solution. I think I understand how it works.

 

There are others that use transitions between stability and instability, by moving ballast around to flirt with blow out. The Lure Professor, Bob said it well, that the problem is if you go too far, the lure is useless, which means that you make a lot of firewood. If you wish to explore these methods of hunting then yes, you will definitely need to play with the ballast. Like BobP, I had success with this method but was frustrated by the lack of consistency from a production stand point.

 

I spent a couple of years working on a special lip design. I got it to work for a while and then lost it after a few months away. The lip was not pretty and not really an aesthetically acceptable solution so I had to be realistic and give it up.

 

More time away and more theorizing and I came up with my current idea. Ballast has no effect on this solution, also the lure never blows out if you get it wrong.

 

This makes four quite different methods to achieve the same result and I have no doubt that there are more.

 

Dave

[bluetickhound]

Been spending some quality time digging into the search function archives for some nuggets to ponder and boy howdy did I find some!! The grooveyard of forgotten threads is packed with info for guys like me who aren't terribly savvy about physics and hydrodynamics and such, but a little common sense and quite honestly, hardheadedness ( maybe dogged determination would be a friendlier way to say it??) will get you where you want to be... That and a little help from your TU buds!

All this to say I think I may have stumbled onto a method that will yield a reliable way to build hunters... I have made a few in the past but only had the fuzziest notion of what I did to bring it about... Now I think I know. We'll see by this weekend.

[bluetickhound]

Dave, your weighted stick explanation was a key piece of the puzzle in what I think I may be onto....

[mark poulson]

Been spending some quality time digging into the search function archives for some nuggets to ponder and boy howdy did I find some!! The grooveyard of forgotten threads is packed with info for guys like me who aren't terribly savvy about physics and hydrodynamics and such, but a little common sense and quite honestly, hardheadedness ( maybe dogged determination would be a friendlier way to say it??) will get you where you want to be... That and a little help from your TU buds!

All this to say I think I may have stumbled onto a method that will yield a reliable way to build hunters... I have made a few in the past but only had the fuzziest notion of what I did to bring it about... Now I think I know. We'll see by this weekend.

 

If it works, share it here.

Almost everything I know about lure making I learned here on the TU forum, from others willing to share, and so I'm happy to share in return.

[bluetickhound]

If it works, share it here.

Almost everything I know about lure making I learned here on the TU forum, from others willing to share, and so I'm happy to share in return.

Will do, Mark. All of my cranks are shallow runners (down to about 4-5 feet) and are balsa thru wire jobs.... I have been using more G10 bills than lexan lately (although I don't think it matters from a hunting perspective...) but I have been looking at it from a viewpoint that "everything totally depends on everything else being just so" and I think that is a little short sighted.... I think it's true to a point but it's not the be all - end all...

To paraphrase Dave (assuming I'm right on this.... Which is not a given....) When you figure it out you'll kick yourself for not figuring it out sooner...

[Brent R]

Just wondering why every big company out there is not trying to capitalize on hunting crankbaits. I'm mean they have all the money and know how, just seems they would all have at least one bait out there that would hunt like crazy....just a thought 

[Lure--Prof]

Dave is correct when he said that there is more than one weigh (sic) to make a hunting lure, which figures, because the definition of a hunting lure is more generally descriptive than specific.  Hunting may refer to  a random kick-out at a certain speed, or it may be a very rhythmic, non-random constant zig-zag while the lure wiggles:  and this design is as repeatable as the build is accurate.  Its zig-zag path will normally widen with increasing retrieve speed.  Body design, ballast location, lip shape and tow point and their interrelationships are typically the major parameters that are tweaked to produce any action, of course, and the magic "hunt".   And one man's hunter is another person's non-hunter.

 

LP

[RayburnGuy]

Dave is correct when he said that there is more than one weigh (sic) to make a hunting lure, which figures, because the definition of a hunting lure is more generally descriptive than specific.  Hunting may refer to  a random kick-out at a certain speed, or it may be a very rhythmic, non-random constant zig-zag while the lure wiggles:  and this design is as repeatable as the build is accurate.  Its zig-zag path will normally widen with increasing retrieve speed.  Body design, ballast location, lip shape and tow point and their interrelationships are typically the major parameters that are tweaked to produce any action, of course, and the magic "hunt".   And one man's hunter is another person's non-hunter.

 

LP

 

Hey Dino. Good to see you back at TU.   Don't stay gone so long next time.

 

Ben

[Vodkaman]

Bluetickhound - it is my experience that everything DOES have to be just so. The slightest variation of any of the relevant variables will throw off the hunt.

 

BrentR - for the above reasons, large production is not possible. Plus, only the most experienced of anglers can appreciate a hunting action. Just imagine all the returns and complaints about 'my lure won't swim straight'. The very few people who sell hunters, probably tailor each individual piece, but I obviously don't know this for certain.

 

Dave

[Travis]

Dave is correct when he said that there is more than one weigh (sic) to make a hunting lure, which figures, because the definition of a hunting lure is more generally descriptive than specific.  Hunting may refer to  a random kick-out at a certain speed, or it may be a very rhythmic, non-random constant zig-zag while the lure wiggles:  and this design is as repeatable as the build is accurate.  Its zig-zag path will normally widen with increasing retrieve speed.  Body design, ballast location, lip shape and tow point and their interrelationships are typically the major parameters that are tweaked to produce any action, of course, and the magic "hunt".   And one man's hunter is another person's non-hunter.

 

LP

 

Well put I personally don't find zig zag type action as hunting because of the very rhythmic action.  It is a nice feature as it is different from much of the action of lures out there but never has this been a feature I mark as a "hunter". 

Edited June 18, 2013 by Travis

[Lure--Prof]

Well put I personally don't find zig zag type action as hunting because of the very rhythmic action.  It is a nice feature as it is different from much of the action of lures out there but never has this been a feature I mark as a "hunter". 

Travis, realize that the lure is wiggling while the lure is kicking is out left-right, left-right, which is what we all recognize as "hunting".  Hunting action does not have to be, or appear random in nature. The lure literally has 2 separate, but simultaneous actions.  It is a bird dog, just a very well trained one!

[Vodkaman]

I agree with the prof - sometimes it is random, sometimes regular, but always two movements. This would be my definition.

 

DAve

[bluetickhound]

Bluetickhound - it is my experience that everything DOES have to be just so. The slightest variation of any of the relevant variables will throw off the hunt.

Dave

If that's so then I may as well give up now.... I cannot make two baits EXACTLY alike in shape, bill angle, ballast placement, etc... The one thing I CAN duplicate over and over is getting my thru wire perfectly centered laterally.. I can get close with the other elements but as far as being able to "crank" 'em out one exactly like the next.... Nope.

That being said... On a bait to bait basis, I have been able to produce hunters that vary widely in basic design. Being honest with myself, I can only credit that to serendipity right now but as I said earlier, I believe I have hit upon something that I hadn't preciously considered, and if I'm correct, I feel that I can join the ranks of lurebuilders who can purposely produce a hunting crankbait whenever they so choose to do so. I don't want ALL my baits to hunt but to have that ability to make a hunter when needed cannot be a bad thing! I'll keep y'all posted as to the results of my tinkerings....

[Vodkaman]

Obviously there is a tolerance and this I find is close to build tolerances. In this thread you see numbers quoted for success rates, this gives an idea of the tolerance. Doable for builders with a bit of forethought but too fine for big companies.

 

You should certainly stick with it - I want to read about your ideas

 

Dave

[diemai]

BrentR - for the above reasons, large production is not possible. Plus, only the most experienced of anglers can appreciate a hunting action. Just imagine all the returns and complaints about 'my lure won't swim straight'. The very few people who sell hunters, probably tailor each individual piece, but I obviously don't know this for certain.

 

Dave

 

I absolutely agree , .......through the years I've had a few homemades that turned out to swim like the one in your video , Dave , ....considered them as rejects , .......because of TU I know better now  .

 

                                  cheers , Dieter