nedyarb Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Sorry I meant heat. I took a couple pics of one of the lures. The other one I threw away! You can kind of see the bubble herei used a razor to pop the skin, the paint peeled back like an egg shell. The paint did not adhere to the lure for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdL Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Looks like a shiny spot behind the bill slot. Did you seal the wood with something? What did you use? Did you sand the sealer? What did you use for primer or base coat? Did you heat set each color of createx application? It may be that sanding the sealer or base coat would help with the adhesion. Or there may be a compatability issue with the sealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I sealed it with two coats of solarez, and used white createx as base coat. Hear set every color Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 What kind of wood did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Basswood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Uh-Oh, look's like a wheel just fell off the bus! In reading the numerous post's on this "wonder coat" one thing keeps popping up, a waxy or dull finish. If it is a wax or amine blush, it would need to removed for any paint adhesion when used as a sealer. Next, and I've commented on this too many times, white paint is not a proper primer. Use an adhesion promoting primer, then base coat. Douglas Edited March 16, 2013 by Rowhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Rowhunter, what primer do you suggest? I use a high hide white and I do just fine, but I am always open to improvements. One thing that I have mentioned before, painting a base coat on a super smooth surface is bad mojo. What I see is Solarez, which leaves a very smooth and very bright finish, that was painted on directly. This is not good, for any paint, but to paint on a plastic surface which does not chemically react, therefore no bond, is a bad deal. nedyarb, I paint on Alumilite White all the time, and if I don't put something on it to make it more receptive to paint, the paint peels right off, just like you got. Solarez and the plastic of Alumilite White are not all that different. I strongly suggest that Solarez makes a great sealer, but all great sealers require additional prep. A little light sanding will allow something for the paint to "grab" on to. Using an adhesion promoter also helps a lot. For example, I often take a rattle can of lacquer or, something like that, and coat my baits before using Createx of similar paint. Lacquer adheres to smooth surfaces much better then just paint and the paint adheres better to lacquer in turn. I don't think any wheel has fallen off the bus, I think that we just need to follow the rules for painting we already knew before. Even the best finish will not excuse poor painting practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 You might try dipping the sealed bait in acetone, quickly, to clean off any residual wax and to "open" the surface a little for a better bond with the Createx. That's how I prep clear plastic baits before I paint them, and have found I don't need a primer for good adhesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I have painted about 50 lures with solarez, and these are the first two that did this. I'm thinking I did something different that caused this. I will try dipping in acetone next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 It wouldn't hurt to give the bait a light sanding with some 400 grit sandpaper before you start painting. This gives the paint something to bite to and the paint will easily fill in any scratches left by the 400 grit. Maybe scuff it with the sandpaper and then a quick dip in the acetone. That should give you a good surface for paint. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's building time for me again. I got my Solarez last year and did a little repair work with it but that about it. It was cooler and the Solarez was a little thick so I had brush marks on the finish. I've been reading here and thinking during the winter about what would work best for my application and put it to the test today. I only build big (10-12") swimbaits. I have been putting my painted baits on my drying wheel and while turning I brush on my clearcoat. I decided to try the same thing with Solarez to see if the turning would help in acquiring a smooth finish. Temps were in the 80's today and the Solarez was noticeably thinner. I brushed it on while the wheel/baits were turning using strokes in all 4 directions to get good coverage. As it turned the finish did level out the brush strokes. I then used my UV flashlight to semi-set the finish by moving it around as the wheel turned. After a few minutes of this I opened the garage door to let the sunlight hit the wheel as it continued to turn. You could see the finish continue to clear-up as it hardened. Using the wheel allowed the Solarez to self level and slowly cure. The finish came out very nice. I have 15 more swimbaits to paint and finish over the next week so it's nice to have the process figured out. Solarez is so much quicker that my previous topcoat. I have though about sealing the raw wood with Solarez before priming and painting but that is another project for the future. I've been moving into making molds and casting resin for my swimbaits. This makes an incredibly tough bait that holds the paint well and I haven't had a single bait peel yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutScout Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I found an issue with the the wood breaking when I tapped a nail through the Solarez treated wood on a jointed bait's hinge. The wood inside the drilled hole becomes so hard from the Solarez seal coat that the hinge nail breaks the wood rather than pass through. Up to now I have used D2T with no breaking issues at the hinge. I broke two lures doing this. So on my next jointed lures I re-drilled the hole, sealed the hole with super glue, and inserted the the nail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggamefish Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 It's building time for me again. I got my Solarez last year and did a little repair work with it but that about it. It was cooler and the Solarez was a little thick so I had brush marks on the finish. I've been reading here and thinking during the winter about what would work best for my application and put it to the test today. I only build big (10-12") swimbaits. I have been putting my painted baits on my drying wheel and while turning I brush on my clearcoat. I decided to try the same thing with Solarez to see if the turning would help in acquiring a smooth finish. Temps were in the 80's today and the Solarez was noticeably thinner. I brushed it on while the wheel/baits were turning using strokes in all 4 directions to get good coverage. As it turned the finish did level out the brush strokes. I then used my UV flashlight to semi-set the finish by moving it around as the wheel turned. After a few minutes of this I opened the garage door to let the sunlight hit the wheel as it continued to turn. You could see the finish continue to clear-up as it hardened. Using the wheel allowed the Solarez to self level and slowly cure. The finish came out very nice. I have 15 more swimbaits to paint and finish over the next week so it's nice to have the process figured out. Solarez is so much quicker that my previous topcoat. I have though about sealing the raw wood with Solarez before priming and painting but that is another project for the future. I've been moving into making molds and casting resin for my swimbaits. This makes an incredibly tough bait that holds the paint well and I haven't had a single bait peel yet. Hey quickdraw thanks for sharing this, I too was wondering about doing the brushing on drying motor thing like you did, glad it worked out for you, now I just have to replace my drying motor that never worked from the start lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Solarez: Topcoat or paint stripper? Well I had 4 large swimbaits painted so I though I'd do them all at 1 time as usual. By the time I got the last one coated and leveled a bit the paint on several of them had started to lift and wrinkle a bit. I later found that the Solarez had penetrated below the detail paint and started to weaken my basecoat. I'm using 2 new materials that I haven't used before, recommended here (EM9000)which is water base and the Solarez. When I was attaching the tails with pins I actually popped up a piece of the finish where between the basecoat and the wood was a goopy material. I believe that it could be some of the Solarez that penetrated below the paint and didn't cure. Oh well this stuff is easy enough to use that I will just need to seal them 1 at a time and a thin/quick first coat then a quick cure before putting on a thicker and smoother second coat may be a better way to go. Edited March 21, 2013 by quickdraw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I do two coats of the SC9000 over my baits if I have added solvent sharpie details like trout dots, and then one coat of Solarez. Solarez does react with unprotected solvent based sharpies and cause them to run, so I assume it would probably affect any solvent based paint, including primer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 The peeling seems more prevalent on the wood baits vs the resin baits. I may need to look into a sealer coat over the paint. Like every new process there is a learning curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 The baits where the Solarez got under the paint and didn't cure blew-up the first time in the water. Biggest failures I've ever had. A little change in my process should fix this problem. Solarex is extremely hard and brittle though. It needs to be sanded between coats to properly adhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted March 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 QuickDraw, I read on there site that if you apply the second coat when the fist coat is still tacky you get a good bond between the two....Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 The problems I had was the Solarex getting under the paint and then the paint blocking the UV so it didn't cure under the paint so I didn't have a bond all of the way from the Solarex topcoat down to the wood. Total mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I use only water-based paints, so I don't worry about the Solarez getting under the paint. But I do worry about uncured Solarez being a problem inside the joints on jointed swimbait repaints. When I brush the Solarez onto a jointed bait that's already assembled, like a repaint of a BBZ-1, I hit it with the UV nail light to cure the faces. Then I take it out and let it sit in the sun with the bait turned so one inner side of the joints faces the sun, and then, after 5 minutes, I turn it and let the sun hit the other side of the joints. That way the Solarez inside the joints gets cured, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I only use water based paints also, Createx and ComArt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlasstone Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 You can also put a drop of MEKP (fiberglass resin hardner) in solarez if you're concerned about light not getting to some sections of the bait. Most auto parts stores ans walmart carry it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I picked up some MEKP today and will in corporate that into my process. How long does it take for the Solarez to set using this? I will also finish the baits 1 at a time so I can get them UV'd quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlasstone Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 my apologies for the delayed response. I used very little MEKP when I tested it. I think I added one drop per ounce of resin. I wish I would have timed it to see how long it took to cure by itself but I know I had plenty of time to work with it. I ended up curing it under UV light but left the remainder in the cup and meant to check on it but lost track of time. However, I did come back to find that it cured on it's own with the MEKP in it. I just don't know the exact working time, sry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickdraw Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Thanks for the follow-up. I'll give it a shot in the next week or so. I may give it a shot on a Resin bait so I won't deal with the blowup issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
