Finnz922 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Has anyone used successfully the Do it Mold blank mold. Do it does not offer a design and create department for the public. I was wondering how some of you took your ideas and machined them into the blank mold? Specifically I want to know how you were accurate in the weights, ie 1/4, 5/16/, 3/8oz and so on. Also, how did you get the hooks and/or wire to lay exactly in the middle of your now machined molds? I researched one company who does this but they want $300-1500 dollars for this. I have access to CNC and lathes(not that I am competent in these) but can one do it themselves effectively without wasting multiple mold to work out the kinks? I am very serious but about this but don't have the money to pay someone else for this work? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Finnz, There is a company that specializes in working with the Do-It blanks. They do custom work. Here is the link. http://pouritmoldser...contact-us.html Edited October 21, 2012 by Basseducer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnz922 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Thanks for the link but those are the ones that cost $350 to 1500. I don't have that. That is why I am looking for other solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Finnz, In all reality if you have no machining skills to cut your own molds, then you will have to pay someone to do this. As far as designing the mold, I have done that however designing time is expensive. I have written about this in another thread. Machinist about $50/hour. Designer about $40.00 per hour. So you can now see why it is so expensive. Unless you can do this work yourself or part of it, you will have to stick to store bought molds. Edited October 25, 2012 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnz922 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 cadman, I work in a shop. I am myself not a machinist and we have an design department but I guess what I am looking for is more of a tutorial on how to take a design and get the weights and hook placement right. No disrespect intended but I realize the work involved and didn't ask what store can I buy a mold from. I asked for assistance on how to go about taking an idea and putting it onto a blank. Like your process or someone elses. Obviously some details would be left out but I am sure that it can be explained in this type of setting without giving any secrets away. The design team we have do more work with sprockets, beams, trolley bodies, motors, limit switches, large cable spools, and other large industry parts. None of them fish and none of them work with small parts that can be intricate in their own way. I figure if I can get a how to transfer idea to design to mold then I can give it to the guys I work with without having wasted money on multiple molds. I am really just looking for help not where to go to buy it and how much can I pay someone. If it comes to that then so be it but with all the members here I figured at least one would have little know how and understanding of where I am coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahhenry10 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 If you can design in CAD you have the hard part down (in my opinion). A CNC should be able to take care of the rest of the work. I'm sure there are easier ways, and I'm sure cadman will be more than willing to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Finnz, I don't even know where to start here. I don't have any secrets on how to go about doing this. I have been doing this for so long, it's something that I just know. So let's start with the basics. #1 Do you have a good math, geometry, trignometry background? #2 Do you know how to read a micrometer or a Vernier Caliper? #3 If you do then can you take accurate measurements to with-in (.001) #4 Do you have all the equipment to measure all of this and other components? #5 You will need some type of cad system to do this and you must be accurate and proficient at this. If you can answer yes to all of this, then you have a very good starting point. You will now have to find a style of jig you want or design it yourself. You can then use that as your master and scale your other jigs up or down to get the other sizes. Now keep in mind, that you will have to get a volume formula to find out how big you need the jigs to be in regards to weight. I can't calculate that for you, because you will be the one doing the design. I would strongly suggest making a 1st piece prototype out of wood. Carve it out and then pour lead into it and then weigh it. Just rememer that lead is very hot and that you will burn the wood from the heat, however you will get a first piece to look at. Next you will have to measure out where you want the hooks, what size and how to hold them in place. You have to understand that there will be a lot of trial and error on your part until you figure all of this out. Once you get your first prototype complete, now design all of this on a block of aluminum with your cad software and then adjust all the other differeing weights. This is it in a nutshell, but there is so much more that I can not even begin to cover here. Note: I will not be responsible for any and all info posted here. This is only an example of how much info, work that needs to be done. The rest is up to you to find the correct sequences and make it work. Edited October 25, 2012 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnz922 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 cadman, Thanks for this info. This is what I am looking for. I was so worried about ruining a mold that I didn't even think to use wood. Don't worry I would never blame you or anyone else from this site if I screw anything up. It is up to me to interpret the information and ask the right questions. Hopefully I get my buck this bow season soon that way I can really focus on these couple of designs that I have rattling around in my head. Thanks again for taking the time to answer and I hope I didn't offend you with anything I said. One more question. Woods have different properties like hard or soft and some tend to burn at a much higher temps. Do you recommend any that have worked well for you or others you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Finnz, No offense taken. It is hard for me to tell someone how to do something, as I do not know what your capabilites are and how handy you are. Realistically, you can make your mold out of plaster of paris, durham's wood putty, bondo or anything else that will take some heat. The only problem with using these materials, is that they are limited to a certain amount of pours. So let's say you have something you want to copy and you make two 1/2 molds out of plaster of paris. When the mold is all dried, you will be able to use it like an aluminum mold. The only drawback is that you may get 100 pours out of it or maybe 500 before it cracks from the expansion of the heat and contraction of it cooling. So as you can see, aluminum is the way to go, because it will never crack. As far as using wood, pine is the easiest tio carve and work with, but it is soft and will not last as long. For a prototype it might be fine. You can use oak, but you will have to use a dremel to remove the material, as oak is very hard. Also keep in mind that the harder the wood, it may crack easier. I am not a wood expert, so I can not give you sound advice on this subject. However take it slow plan things out and get your idea on paper and go from there......Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) A guy told me that you will have to pay for your education one way or another and I agree. Once you learn how to make a mold in CAD software, you will figure out where to put the hook. When making the 3D prototype, some CAD programs can calculate the volume of the part so you can figure the weight of lead. Accurate weights? If you are making a ball head, that is pretty easy to calculate, any other shape you are at the mercy of CAD software or you could WAG it. Do it molds are not always very accurate on the weight displayed. The alloy of the lead will make a little difference but you buy something in the store and weights are not always close either. If you goal is to make a fishing lure, your cheapest investment would be, carve it out of wood or Bondo, then make a mold with some of the stuff Cadman suggested. If you want it in a Do-IT mold, it won't be cheap. I bought a small CNC, bought 4 different CAD programs, taught myself how to cut molds and it has not been a money maker:(, but boy I really leaned at lot:), ,mostly ways that don't work, so I know a lot of ways not to do. YOU SAID: "but can one do it themselves effectively without wasting multiple mold to work out the kinks? With no experience/education of making molds, I would say ...... no. Read Cadmans footer on his posts. If you don't make any mistakes/kinks, you are not doing anything. Edited October 25, 2012 by dlaery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Finnz, After reading David's post, there are soooo many things that I didn't cover, that he did and there is much more that either of us didn't cover, because the scope of how much info needed to create someting from our heads down to an actual finished piece. This shows you the magnitude of how much is involved if you were actually designing and machining your own molds.Like David said, cad software will calculate many things for you providing the info you put in is correct. Without the software, it is very time consuming and tedious. It can be done by hand but you will devote a lot of time to it. The good thing about doing it yourself, is you will learn a lot from trial and error and sometimes this information is invaluable. Trust me I used to draw on a drawing board, and the amount of hours, of drawing and redrawing and changing things was staggering. I do not wish to draw on the board ever again. However doing it that way teaches you a lot of basics and prepares you for the next thing to come around and that was computers. So without dragging this on. Start out small, learn as much as you can, and let us know how it goes down the road. I definitely would like to hear how your whole concept develops from start to finish. If you have questions regarding cad profiles or math questions or machining questions, I'm sure a bunch of the guys here will try to help you with their years of experience. Edited October 25, 2012 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahhenry10 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 What is the cheapest CAD software that can be bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 There are some drawing programs that are free. FreeCad is one. I have downloaded it and it looks promising, but I have not tried to use it. Any Cad program is going to have a pretty big learning curve. Once you learn one program and then go to another, you have to start all over because it will be different. Once you draw the prototype in your CAD program, then you will need to subtract that from the mold, top and bottom, and then you need to have a CAM program to do the G-Code to tell the machine how to cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 What is the cheapest CAD software that can be bought. I can only answer for what I currently use and that is Solidworks. It's about $5000.00 for one seat. Now you also have to remember that this is a solid cad software, where you can design a solid chunk of aluminum, and then eventually take it to a machining center. There are other softwares cad systems that can do that as well, and others that are just 3d wire frame packages. I have in the past used Auto Cad and Cadkey. Auto Cad solids format I believe is now Inventor. Cadkey has also changed to I believe Key Creator. I can't give you prices on those because I don't use them. I believe David Aery and Bob La Londe will chime in as they also use a cad package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahhenry10 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I can only answer for what I currently use and that is Solidworks. It's about $5000.00 for one seat. Now you also have to remember that this is a solid cad software, where you can design a solid chunk of aluminum, and then eventually take it to a machining center. There are other softwares cad systems that can do that as well, and others that are just 3d wire frame packages. I have in the past used Auto Cad and Cadkey. Auto Cad solids format I believe is now Inventor. Cadkey has also changed to I believe Key Creator. I can't give you prices on those because I don't use them. I believe David Aery and Bob La Londe will chime in as they also use a cad package. Auto CAD is what my school has, and I know the most basic program of it is $1,500. I didn't know if there were other cheaper versions, or if that is pretty much as low as it goes. Maybe I'll try downloading that freecad and see what it's like. I can't imagine that it would even be comparable to Auto CAD, but it would give me something to play around on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnz922 Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I can only answer for what I currently use and that is Solidworks. It's about $5000.00 for one seat. Now you also have to remember that this is a solid cad software, where you can design a solid chunk of aluminum, and then eventually take it to a machining center. There are other softwares cad systems that can do that as well, and others that are just 3d wire frame packages. I have in the past used Auto Cad and Cadkey. Auto Cad solids format I believe is now Inventor. Cadkey has also changed to I believe Key Creator. I can't give you prices on those because I don't use them. I believe David Aery and Bob La Londe will chime in as they also use a cad package. The design team and engineers use solidworks at my work. We also have a machine shop inside and my father in law knows how to work a CNC. Great info and thanks a lot. I hope that in the next few months I will learn a lot from all of you. One more question for now. Have any of you used a 3D Printer? I guess it takes a drawing and can make a 3D model out of it with plastic. My work has one and I was wondering if any of you have used it and think it's worth it to get some ideas made. You know like prototypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Great question Finnz. I can't help you with any of the engineering stuff, but I've been wondering if a 3D printer could be used to make masters for mold making. Can't wait to hear everyone's input on this. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) Finzz, I need to find a job at your place. Yes the 3d printers are awesome and can save a ton of machining time and money. You can rapid-prototype a part, and make changes as often as you need. This will give you a final part before you decide to machine your molds. Then you can physically see a 3d part of what you will actually get. Finally once you see it, you can then do all of your tweeks. Don't quote me on this, but I beileve it uses a plastic similar to delrin??? Anyway I don't have one here, because we only do sheet metal parts. But if you are doing machining proto-types, that is the cats a$$. Let us know how that works out. I am soooo curious and jealous. I also believe that Solidworks worked with one of the first companies to develop the 3d printer. My friend has one at his company, and although I have no need for one for what I do. I would love to have one so I can make crankbaits and all kind of cool stuff. More of a tool for making things. However I believe they start at around 10K, a little too rich for my blood Edited October 26, 2012 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnz922 Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I work for a worldwide company, Conductix Wampfler. I however am a grunt on the assembly floor who loves to fish and has too many ideas in my head.I I just build the trailing cable reels, motor drive reels, and festoon systems. Unfortunately for me I didn't go to school long enough to get a job in the office. Anyway. In talking to some of the guys at work they tell me I can get something made up on the 3D printer and since I work there at least one guy said cost is cheap usually involving a case of beer or help with something involving labor like cutting down a tree or something. I only found this out Monday while talking to one of the guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Is programming one of the 3D printers as complicated as drawing it with a CAD program? Just wondering how that works. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) In talking to some of the guys at work they tell me I can get something made up on the 3D printer and since I work there at least one guy said cost is cheap usually involving a case of beer or help with something involving labor like cutting down a tree or something. I only found this out Monday while talking to one of the guys. That is a good deal if you are inteested in learning something from these guys. Nice to know guys like that. The "affordable" 3D printers I have looked at are fed by an ABS "cord". There are all kinds of 3D printers though. Even some that can print in metals. Probably one of the best places to look to start with are at some of the things Hoss has documented with his. Thanks Bob. However who or what is Hoss? Edited October 27, 2012 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Is programming one of the 3D printers as complicated as drawing it with a CAD program? Just wondering how that works. Ben I can't give you an answer on the 3D printer, but I have programmed, turrets, lasers and waterjet systems. On the three that I mentioned, everything that I have done revolved around sheet metal, aluminum, stainless and lexan. The cam part of it uses a 2d .DXF file. The laser and the waterjet takes the .DXF file and once you create a path a piercing point and an ending point, they will follow that path and make as many parts as you need. Very simple and very accurate Laser and waterjet programming are the easiest to learn. *****Note: Do not burn Lexan on a laser. Fumes are very toxic.***** On the turret, similar principle except you have to assign different tools to cut the pattern out. Definitely a bigger learning curve, because of tool and die clearances you will need to know for different thicknesses. Edited October 27, 2012 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Thanks Ted. I didn't know how hard, or expensive, using one of the 3D printers was, but thought it might be a good way to make mold masters for those of us that aren't very talented when it comes to using clay to create them. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Thanks Bob. I had a feeling any work done with a 3D printer would first have to be drawn up in a CAD file. Probably a tad expensive to make mold masters this way unless you were moving a lot of product. And from "my" perspective it would be close to impossible for me to learn everything it would take to render these types of files at this point in my life. Don't have the time, patience or money to go back to school. Still cool to know how stuff works though. thanks again, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
