Chip Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Okay here we go again...... I made 20 identical rattle traps using the same method of prep, prime, and paint.... 10 of them were coated with Devcon 30 clear and the other 10 were coated with Envirotex. When complete, they were issued their Gamakatsu hooks and split rings and sent to the field.... I had these lures fished by BASS Federation Fishermen and a fishing show host. Each fisherman received 5 each of the traps. They were fished hard, slammed to the water to remove weeds, bounced off rock and wood structure, etc. Results: Fisher 1, 67 degree water: all 5 devcon lures had spider web type cracks in the finish 1 lure delaminated along a fracture line. All etex lures, with the exception to normal banging marks from being fished hard stoood the test and will be fished again. Fisher 2, 59 - 65 degree water: 2 devcon lure finishes cracked and delaminated... The remaining three had significant damage and cracking in the surface coat. All etex lures, with the exception to normal banging marks from being fished hard stoood the test and will be fished again. _______________________________________________________ My point.... This is only one study, but I have had clients tell me about devcon cracks in the past as well. When it dries in your mixing cup, try and bend the left over... It will crack if thin enough to bend. Envirotex as well as Flexcoat...They bend and stretch and do not crack. _________________________________________________________ I also think that Devcon gives a beautiful finish, I just wish it were more durable... ___________________________________________________________ And finally I am not writing this to prove my Devcon friends wrong and I respect their knowledge and great views. I am only reporting what I found to be true in my experiment. ______________________________________________________ I metioned that I am studying a 90 second (BELT OVEN PASS THROUGH) dry time silane/resin based coating that is flexible and waterproof. It is not commercially available yet, but I will report what I find there. JMO Yall take care! and watch out the pie throwing is about to start!!! LOL Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnbrian98 Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Alright Chip.Where can I get the Envirotex? I give it a test drive . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Well you know I am a fan of Devcon Chip but mostly because I am used to it and it has worked fine for me in the past. I also like the speed at which it dries. I am always interested tho in hearing about different and "better" products. Tried flexcoat, not even close to the quality of Devcon for my interests. I would like to see a better controlled study, same baits, same line, same water, same number of casts, etc. Before and after pics would be very good too. Very surprised it delaminated on you, have never had this problem. How many coats of enviro do you have to put on to equal one of Devcon? That's why I didn't like the FC, way too thin. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 1. ETex can be bought at ace hardware and see this link: http://www.eti-usa.com/consum/envtex/envlite.htm 2. While the devcon does look nice going on thick, it also hides surface imperfections. I put my etex on thick and thin (depending on the lure). I dont brush it on sparingly.. I was also very surprised by the delaminations..... but it was the first I have used Devcon on plastic baits... I dont want anyone to get me wrong... I think devcon is a beautiful finish... I used it to get baits quickly out to PROs hands.... but I wont do that anymore.... Most store boughts topcoats are <10% the thickness of a thin Etex coat. One baitmaker here mentioned a sinking bait..... I can tell you EPOXY is very heavy. I used to compete in hand built giant 100% scale remote control airplanes... We stayed as far away from epoxy as we could because of the weight it added to a plane.... Point is that the thinner coats, but still durable, the better as far as weight and balance control.... PS.... Skeeter I like you! please dont shun or beat me up! Yall take care! Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrydabassman Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I'm willing to try anything once, so how do you apply it? Dip it? Or brush it on? How many coats? How many lures will the Envirotex Lite Kit 32 oz cover? Thanks for the info Chipster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I'm willing to try anything once, so how do you apply it? You can spray, but I would brush it with a 1/2 inch wide flat artist brush Dip it? Wouldnt Or brush it on? Yah!!! How many coats? One is good, but you can add additional after a brief acetone rub. I never do more than one. How many lures will the Envirotex Lite Kit 32 oz cover 2 tsp... A&B = 4 tsp will cover 4 - 6 lures Good to hear from you Terry! Hope all is good in WVA... I'll be passing through Wheeling next month on my way to the East Coast. Take Care! Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 How long does it take to dry Chip and how do you measure the stuff out? Thx. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrydabassman Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Brief acetone rub??? Yall have a safe trip Chip, and catch some a them green fishes in N.C. fer me, will ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 i have broken my wrist this week, so you guys are going to have to put up with my left handed typing for about 8 weeks. the only time that i ever had trouble with devcon delaminating was with a balsa bait that i did not seal completely. water got to the wood an the wood swelled causing the delamination and eventually a crack. I took a chip out of one other from sending it 70 mph into a basketball size rock. but the bait was still sealed. water could still not reach the paint. No need in worrying about the temp of the water with devcon. it does not effect it to cause failures. i know what some folks have said, but i have fished my baits in 42 deg water for 8 hrs and have never had a failure or spider webbing. the baits were smacking rock piles all day long. in my opinion something wasn't right. you guys use whatever you like. it is a personal preference. i am also changing my opinion..... i think that EVERYONE that makes lures should use something other than devcon to clearcoat their lures. devcon just doesn't cut it. i am going to order my envirotex and a big propane torch tommorrow!!!!! Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 My experience has been the same as yours Skeeter, haven't had any problems with the Devcon whatsoever. I am however, willing to give products that I have yet to experiment with a try. Not in any hurry at this point but will probably give the Enviro a try if for no other reason for the sake of discussion. Anyone know what the Hughes River Baits have on them..it's gorgeous!! jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Great jed, i think you should. we should all experiment and search for new methods. but you better get your fingers in shape in case that little feller your clearcoating needs an acetone rub down. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 LOL @ Skeeter! I like ye sense of humor (Acetone massage)! The lures set upin six hours, but I turn my wheel for 16 before I take them off.. Terry, A little straight acetone on a rag and then rubbed across the lure to give the new coat something to stick to. Yall take Care! Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeminoleFan Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Chip Im curious. Are you using Devcon 30 min or Devcon 2ton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I use 5 min devcon for gluing in lips and wires I used the 30 min clear for top coating and now the Envirotex 16 hour! LOL @ 16 hour! Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Chip, The Devcon 2 has one tube that is clear and the other has a slight yellow tint. Is this the one you are using? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeminoleFan Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Chip, I would be interested in knowing how your envirotex holds up against Devcon 2 ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Guys I have to say I'm impressed with the E/T finish results that chip recieved But having used everything under the sun The only concern I have is the yellowing of the E/T over time. About 3 years ago I gave a guy from SC a bunch of deep divers to test out.(E./T. finish) The baits worked great and he loved them. This past March I returned to SC for a bunch of fishing trips with the same fellow. Upon looking at the original baits I gave him I was horrified. The clear coat had turned amber brown and had yellowed in the areas where it wasn't amber. The baits looked horrible. I asked him if he left them out in the sun for an extended period of time and he said the baits were left on the deck of the boat only during the course of daily fishing trips. SO this brings me to my final conclusion on clear coats use whatever works for ya!!!!!!!!! Some like Devcon some Like E/T Some like C/S Use whatever works for your particular operation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Chip..Chip..Chip...You sure know how to stir it up..LOL....I'm a little confused as to what Devcon product your using.....Is it the 2 ton product?..You refered to it as the 30 min....thats where my confusion is..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I agree with you blackjack (and aw yes.. I likum ye baits TOO! - I spent many hours examining your wears) I consult in the space/solar industry where UV damage is paramount with regard to protecting devices. That is one reason I am looking into this new silane/resin UV hardend coating. But, look at baits the sameway I do a golfball, tennisball, etc... they will eventially wear out and be replaced! That the beauty of it! Replaced means $$$$$! Rapala, bomber, etc.... look the same after time. they wear out. you ever seen an expensive titlelist golfball that sat outside for a season...bad stuff! Anyway, dont get me wrong... anything we want to preserve should be preserved properly. Alot of antique baits are yellowed and beat... the ones that were never used still look as if they are very aged. I agree with what you said.... use whatever you want and what makes you (meaning everyone here) happy. I just wanted to report my results! Take care! Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Nat: I purchase devcon 5 min for lips.... For 30 min, I purchase larger qty's from tower hobbies. It is "30 minute CLEAR" I spoke with the tower buyer way back and He said it was Devcon brand. On my initial test in the first part of this thread, I used Devcon 30 min 2 ton For 16hr!: LOL I use ETEX... I do wish it dried sooner..... I am building a much larger grying wheel to accomodate the long dry times and being able to load up more baits. Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I think BlackJack brings up a very important subject that all of us should be considering and that is UV damage, particularly if you are selling your baits as I am. What are you finishing with now BlackJack? I know I have beaten this subject before but I don't want to see my baits do what he saw the Enviro did after just three years!! Some have said here that after a couple years they expect to throw the bait away anyway, I disagree. A bait if properly made and cared for should last decades. I am conducting my own experiment at this time with Devcon...as I write this it is sitting on the dash of my pickup in direct sunlight, half of the bait I covered with tape. I intend to leave the bait there for two or three weeks, if nothing has changed I will continue to leave the bait there until some noticable damage has been done. I also intend to conduct a test on the durability of devcon, still trying to decide how best to do this. Chip......16 hours on the dryer!!! Yikes! I run my Devcon finish for 20 minutes and stop the machine, 30 minutes max. So does the Enviro have a UV protector in it? Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBait Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Devcon is already yellow when it dries... Envirotex will not yellow... If you are finishing foil baits where the finish must be perfectly clear to get the most out of your foil job... there is no comparison.... Devcon cures quick and if I were to paint all of my bait or baits I might consider using it. For clarity....ETEX is the only answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 riverman! I keep mentioning a silane/resin based forumula..... As soon as we lock down the mixture, I'll let yall in on it.... Maybe even an additive to mix with the ETEX! There may be a patent in it for me and a phD buddy of mine... there are possible other applications than baits..... take care Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoc Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Riverman, I use Etex for walleye jigs.( well plus other baits) Been using it since 1985. Bright flo. colors, some in my box are 15 years old and there is no yellowing to them. Did some spinner baits with devcon and they were yellowing in less than a year. I have never had any bait I sold or keep 4 myself go yellow when done with Etex. Was it an oil based paint you used in the first place. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr B Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Queston for you Enviro guys. Some of the Spinnerbaits I have made have the Vinal paint on the heads. Do you know if I can put the Enviro over the vinal or will it react? Another question. I build rods so I have both Flex Coat Lite (guide wraps) and flex coat rod building epoxy (Cork and seats). Can I use either of these products for clear coating or is the Enviro recomended. Thanks Mr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
