pizz Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 i love how years of experience, trial and error, and money spent by other painters gets so unrespected around here. Some of the members offer so many tricks of the trade and then get no appreciaton or even told "theyre wrong". Seems that nobody wants to figure anything out on their own and just want to be told what or how to do it. The best thing you can learn from is your own personal experience.. whether its positive or negative. Obviously the positives are gonna build your confidence as a painter... and negatives are just like any other learning experience. Grow from it. Take a chance and mess up. We all have. Bottom line... get off the forum and gain your knowledge in your work station. that being said... I use the best clearcoat in the world!! end rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Been this way for a long time.....I always felt that a new breed of "lure makers" popped up several years ago that were all about taking and had nothing to give. Putting in work, figuring things out, etc.. is a lost art in this day of instant gratification. Many just gracefully bowed out with respect to sharing information and others stepped up and shared what they could. It all works out you just see people finding "new" things to add that were openly discussed many years prior. Just the way things are now. Help those you feel worthy and be cordial to those that aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent R Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I am thankful for all the help i have received from everyone on this site. I have asked a ton of ???s and almost all have been answered with open arms. If it was not for those who helped me along the way i'm not sure if i could afforded to get into this hobby. In return i have tried to help others that have asked ???s. And no i don't have the talent that others have but i still try. This forum was started to talk and share about this hobby that i love so much. I'm not able to fish like i use to because of health problems. So this hobby makes me feel like i can still be involved in a sport that i was so addicted to and love so much. I have become friends with some of the guys on this forum and that means a lot to me. And i would do anything for them because a friend is worth more to me than any lure that i will ever paint or any bass i will ever catch. You have the choice to help someone are not....and i choose to help everyone i can. I don't have any secrets to keep from anyone because someone shared the information with me. Yes....when you learn something on your own you should be proud, and that's a good thing. But i guess i was raised to always help others not as fortunate as i am. And yes i have been fortunate when it comes to others that have been willing to help me when i needed it. So thanks from the bottom of my heart to those of you that have took your time to help others out. God bless, Brent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 wow. i have been at it for 30 years. i dont know how to take your post. i will agree thru the decades i have learned thru ruineed wood and paint failures.i build for a living,have tried to help folks. man im puzzled but maybe in just old and dont understand tyhe meeee world it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I guess I feel the same as Brent. I build baits for fun and for the thrill of catching a fish on something I built. Everything I know about making lures I learned here on TU, from others willing to share. So, for me, it's only fair to share whatever I've learned with others in return. I'm just a hobby builder and painter. I'm certainly no artist. You guys who sell your baits have a right to protect what makes your baits unique and successful. But what ever you do choose to share is greatly appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bester Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I totally disagree. Why not shorten the learning curve for a new builder? Why is it so f'n important that everybody "pay their dues?" Really? Since you took the time to work something out, you don't want to share it because you feel that other people should have to put the time in? Then don't share it. I have gotten alot of help from this site and because I am not a very established builder I don't say much for fear of leading someone down the wrong road. Once I am as good as alot of guys on here I will happily pass info on. Its like the search function police around here. If you see a clearcoat or a diving lip post thats been discussed 1000 times don't click on it. Think about it. If you can repond to a question that makes some builders 3 or 4 hours a week shop time more productive why not? How petty to complain about it because you feel that everyone should "put their time in" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crzyjunyer Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 i agree with brent and mark. I thought thats what made this site such an amazing tool and resource for lure making. Instead of spending my time and money (both in very limited amounts available to me and most others im sure) working to find out what others before me have already found out by trial and error i can learn from them and what they experienced and then hopefully build upon that with my own trial and error. Then i can return the favor and help them and others with my findings. Learing and searching on here has put me leaps and bounds ahead of where i would be in my techiniques and ablilites over where i would be if i had to learn it all on my own by failures and successes alone. Even in this day of "instant gratification" i am stll very appreciative of others who are willing to take a precieous few minutes of their time and help others like me in furthering our craft and i try to do the same for others as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdL Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I can see it both ways -finding out different ways from what others have shared or just finding out for myself. Most guys are willing to share what they have found out the hard way and share it so others can shorten the learning curve. I too sometimes get the sense that with all the information here on the site (and there's tons of it) that some just don't want to take the time to search out the answers already here. Just want the quick answer and just take. Sometimes its good to have a good rant and then move on. Most people on this site have personal pride in what they do and time invested and don't want to see the craft of lure building get a corrupted attitude. And yes some have limited time and budgets. But we all have the option to log in or not. We can choose to take or give. It up to the person. But all in all I think we should respect that this this site is still No. 1 for learning and try to keep it that way. I have seen this on custom rod building sites that I also visit. And it can get brutal between some folks. So far not on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass01 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I am another that agrees with Brent and Mark and I AM VERY THANFUL for the help and knowledge I have recieved on this site ,I understand that the guys that do this for a living would want to protect what they do and that is their right not to comment and Pizz is right that with all the advise nothing will help us get better then in the shop but to me its very similiar to all of us reading about new fishing techniques it just helps with the curve but nothings better then actual experience of course if I didi it all on my own I wouldnt have a computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizz Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I'm all about helping others. I've helped quite a few people and I'm sure those people have helped the next guy and so on. I've even talked personally on the phone with people here and on other sites trying to get people going in the right direction. I'm referring to some of the posts on here that just seem to go in a never ending circle. Generic questions get 100 opinionated answers. If I was someone new on the forums, I would be more confused about what to do than before I started. If paint or art is truly your passion then take the time to learn your craft rather than have someone make all the choices for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass01 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Pizz ,In that you are correct and being on this site and others I know you have helped others myself included with your knowledge and I understand you fustration of the posts of topics that have been answered many times before with no new info that could be found on the search button but long story short Thanks for the Knowledge you have shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I understand where Pizz is coming from.I also learned to build baits via the school of hard knocks before the Internet.I've learned a ton through this site and try to give back but there are ones who come here with so little ambition they won't use the search feature.The generic " how do I build a crankbait" question from a guy on his first post here gets me.Please use the search feature and spend some time reading....When you have a specific question by all means ask it....While we are ranting...my other favorite is a guy who asks a question and you give him the answer and you never get a response back....not a thanks or I'll give a try...nothing!!.....I guess the long and short of it is I don't mind helping somebody if they are willing to help themselves .....I'll get off my soap box now...Nathan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I understand where Pizz is coming from.I also learned to build baits via the school of hard knocks before the Internet.I've learned a ton through this site and try to give back but there are ones who come here with so little ambition they won't use the search feature.The generic " how do I build a crankbait" question from a guy on his first post here gets me.Please use the search feature and spend some time reading....When you have a specific question by all means ask it....While we are ranting...my other favorite is a guy who asks a question and you give him the answer and you never get a response back....not a thanks or I'll give a try...nothing!!.....I guess the long and short of it is I don't mind helping somebody if they are willing to help themselves .....I'll get off my soap box now...Nathan My sentiments exactly Nathan. When I first came here I asked a ton of questions and no doubt there were some questions that a lot of folks would classify as dumb, but I did spend untold amounts of time using the search function and don't think I ever failed to tell everyone how much their help was appreciated. Just because this is a tackle building website doesn't mean that anyone "owes" you an answer to your questions. And how hard is it to say thanks anyway? Now, like Nathan, I'll get off the soap box. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsailor618 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 All of you make good points and I am very happy to acknowledge the generosity of folks on this site. Before I asked my first questions, I did alot of searching, copying, cutting and pasting into a little digital handbook of information from many members here, mostly just articles and how-tos that I semi-organized. I build only for myself and my family but i greatly appreciate the improvement in my abilities gained from here. I have found that as my confidence increased, I tended to start adding comments and suggestions to questions I was reading. There are many members I could thank specifically but since I like the whole site so much - Thank you everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Some people like things on a silver platter... I prefer however to not "spoon feed" people and let them learn and create on their own. Pizz I seen your clearcoat mines better roflmao that is one post title that will never end. Someday there will be carbon tetronannyte perchlorated ester clear. It will be one part with 110% gloss, 200% solids, no runs, no bubbles, will withstand a nuclear bomb, and is safe for kids to bite on. Ducking and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent R Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thank God ...that when i was going to school i had a TEACHER who went to school and learned and then came and taught me what they had learned. I'm sure glad i didn't have to go to school and have them give me books and say.....here go home read these books....there will be a test on Friday...... Just my opinion ....but most of us would have FAILED...... Thanks to all who have helped me and others...... end of rant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) But I bet you were attentive, asked questions, got things wrong, asked for more direction. You didn't say tell me this now, didn't insult the teacher, or question if she/he knew what they heck they were talking about... Got a swat or detention for that when I was in school. Edited January 4, 2013 by Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent R Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 But I bet you were attentive, asked questions, got things wrong, asked for more direction. You didn't say tell me this now, didn't insult the teacher, or question if she/he knew what they heck they were talking about... Got a swat or detention for that when I was in school. Yes i was attentive..Yes i ask questions...Yes got things wrong....Yes ask for more direction....and as for as the rest...i was more respectful than that. And Yes i passed. take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I had already caught the lure design bug when I was introduced to TU. I was struggling and getting nowhere and was grateful for this wealth of knowledge which I pigged out on for so many hours. Being an engineer, I wanted to know why it worked, not just how to make it work. The information that I found here on TU was thorough, detailed and easy to follow, solving most of my problems. Still one question remained unanswered – how does it work – so I asked the question. I wasn’t expecting a flood of answers, but figured that there would be one or two engineers out there that might be able to point me in the right direction. No one could help me. Instead I was subjected to such a barrage of hostility and rudeness that I almost left. I stayed because I felt that I had something to prove. I decided to bring lure theory and an alternative method of design and understanding to the table. It certainly was not going to be for everybody, but there are always going to be one or two inquisitive minds out there who would appreciate the insight, even if they did not use the knowledge. The barrage of hostility continued for some time, but eventually faded away, but the TU experience was marred for me and that was the only question that I ever asked in over 4000 posts. It kind of became my mission to help people with alternative ideas and solutions wherever possible and with extra special help to newcomers, determined that their experience should be better than mine. Not essential, but I do wish people would say thankyou more. There have been times when I have put many hours into an answer and not even received acknowledgement that the information was even received, let alone appreciated. For anyone new to lure building, TU is a daunting site and finding the information that you need is extremely difficult, because you don’t even know what you are looking for. You try random reading, but that doesn’t get you anywhere. You are left with no choice but to ask a dumb question. It is upto us to just set them on the right track, maybe with a few helpful links to get them started. It doesn’t have to be a big effort. This idea of having to serve a lure apprenticeship before being qualified to even speak is BS and I cringe every time I read it. Other cringe worthy comments are: ‘reinventing the wheel’ or ‘it’s all been done before’ or ‘there is nothing new to be discovered’, another favorite is ‘there are no short cuts’ pfft! Lure design is still in its infancy. The first hundred years were driven by trial and error, a slow but determined process involving a lot of firewood. Now we have a new tool – knowledge of theory. Designers who embrace this knowledge are far more likely to come up with solutions and new ideas, but there will always be wood for the fire Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent R Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I had already caught the lure design bug when I was introduced to TU. I was struggling and getting nowhere and was grateful for this wealth of knowledge which I pigged out on for so many hours. Being an engineer, I wanted to know why it worked, not just how to make it work. The information that I found here on TU was thorough, detailed and easy to follow, solving most of my problems. Still one question remained unanswered – how does it work – so I asked the question. I wasn’t expecting a flood of answers, but figured that there would be one or two engineers out there that might be able to point me in the right direction. No one could help me. Instead I was subjected to such a barrage of hostility and rudeness that I almost left. I stayed because I felt that I had something to prove. I decided to bring lure theory and an alternative method of design and understanding to the table. It certainly was not going to be for everybody, but there are always going to be one or two inquisitive minds out there who would appreciate the insight, even if they did not use the knowledge. The barrage of hostility continued for some time, but eventually faded away, but the TU experience was marred for me and that was the only question that I ever asked in over 4000 posts. It kind of became my mission to help people with alternative ideas and solutions wherever possible and with extra special help to newcomers, determined that their experience should be better than mine. Not essential, but I do wish people would say thankyou more. There have been times when I have put many hours into an answer and not even received acknowledgement that the information was even received, let alone appreciated. For anyone new to lure building, TU is a daunting site and finding the information that you need is extremely difficult, because you don’t even know what you are looking for. You try random reading, but that doesn’t get you anywhere. You are left with no choice but to ask a dumb question. It is upto us to just set them on the right track, maybe with a few helpful links to get them started. It doesn’t have to be a big effort. This idea of having to serve a lure apprenticeship before being qualified to even speak is BS and I cringe every time I read it. Other cringe worthy comments are: ‘reinventing the wheel’ or ‘it’s all been done before’ or ‘there is nothing new to be discovered’, another favorite is ‘there are no short cuts’ pfft! Lure design is still in its infancy. The first hundred years were driven by trial and error, a slow but determined process involving a lot of firewood. Now we have a new tool – knowledge of theory. Designers who embrace this knowledge are far more likely to come up with solutions and new ideas, but there will always be wood for the fire Dave Dave don't let anyone ever tell you that your not 1st class....it's been a privilege....thanks for everything. take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Well said Vodkaman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy01007 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Dave, Great Reply. As a fairly new member I can certainly relate to spending time trying to search out an answer and getting no-where. Reading abbreviated text after another, I often couldn't even figure out what products posts were referring to. One thing was clear, there is several ways to accomplish a single goal. I did find the search function difficult at times, and being led to a specific post was extremely helpful. Your list of cringe worthy comments hits home. You may have been driven by discovering the whys, I have always been motivated by productivity and efficiency. I can build a nice 5 segment 4 inch swimbait (to my satisfaction anyway), but I can't do it fast enough. And this has been my goal for the last year. Experimenting with different joint configurations and building methods to speed production, without sacrificing quality. My philosophy is, there is always a better way, you just need to discover it. "I have not failed. I just found 10,000 ways that won't work" -Thomas Edison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I am a long standing member of TU and mostly I am known in the softbait side of things. I have done hardbaits in the past(about20 years ago) but recently I have gotten into hardbaits again. This time I have been using a type of foil finishing where I use no paint at all. If it hadn't been for posts about foil finishing on TU I wouldn't have thought up this process. So, I thank those who first posted their process here. The funny thing I see here(and it's not really funny) is that in the softbait forum I can't remember seeing a thread like this one about sharing ideas. I can remember a thread very much like this one some years ago in the hardbait forum that resulted in some members quitting and some members getting banned. The main idea (correct me if I'm wrong) of TU is the sharing of ideas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da big tuna Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I understand where Pizz is coming from.I also learned to build baits via the school of hard knocks before the Internet.I've learned a ton through this site and try to give back but there are ones who come here with so little ambition they won't use the search feature.The generic " how do I build a crankbait" question from a guy on his first post here gets me.Please use the search feature and spend some time reading....When you have a specific question by all means ask it....While we are ranting...my other favorite is a guy who asks a question and you give him the answer and you never get a response back....not a thanks or I'll give a try...nothing!!.....I guess the long and short of it is I don't mind helping somebody if they are willing to help themselves .....I'll get off my soap box now...Nathan Great post... Trying and failing is sometime the best explanation you can get, Its not about paying your dues .Its obvious when someone has done their homework and then asks questions as opposed to asking," whats the best or cheapest or fastest". , but things are hard to explain if your not in a guys shop. Its difficult to help those who are not able to help themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarftd Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have only been painting for about a year...i have probably smoked 250 baits trying to figure this stuff out. I found this site(intitially) messing with pouring plastic...a few burns later i decided that was not for me. I love the paint bug. I do really feel that it is more rewarding when you do figure something out on your own. However...when your head is aching from research and you still have not made sense of it, it is nice to be able to come here for the answer and have all these talented helpful people. Thank to all of you for your willingness to share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
