Bassinjunkie88 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Does anyone know if the Beaver that is sold on this site is copyrighted/trademarked? I thought about trying it out, even though it's a flat sided bait, but didn't want to get in trouble with it. Please let me know what you think, or direct me to where I can find other Beaver type baits. Thanks, Here's a pic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveh Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Looks like a beaver so i would say yes.Suprised reaction innovations has not sent them a letter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassinfool Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I actually have that mold and make some flat sided beavers for myself and only for myself. I would never sell those to anyone, especially with RI being less than 5 minutes down the road from me! Feel free to buy it if you want to make some baits for yourself but don't try and sell them to anyone because you could very well find a letter from RI's lawyer in your mailbox and that is something you certainly don't want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveh Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Del and lure craft had to take there beaver molds down from there sites.Back when RI was really going after people i don`t think you were not even to say the word beaver.lol Guess they never seen this site and there mold.I had some molds of dels and just posted a photo and never sold any and got my hand slapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipt Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 you as the consumer wouldnt get in trouble, just dont go selling them to people haha. if they sell the mold, you can buy it. you wont get in trouble for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBehr Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Sweet Beaver is trademarked. So you cannot use that combination of words. They do not state that the bait is patented on there site. Is there a patent number on the bag (I don't use that bait...and so I don't have a bag to look at). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc1 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 you as the consumer wouldnt get in trouble, just dont go selling them to people haha. if they sell the mold, you can buy it. you wont get in trouble for that That is a myth, even if you copy it once for yourself you can in fact be taken to court. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipt Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 That is a myth, even if you copy it once for yourself you can in fact be taken to court. yes if you make the mold yourself and do that, it is illegal. however if you buy that companies product and shoot baits for yourself theres no way that can be illegal. if someone copied coca colas recipe and you bought it and drank it, are you going to be brought to court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 ipt, the mold itself that the mold company is selling is illegal. So making a bait off of it would also be illegal. The Sweet Beaver name is copyrighted and the bait itself is patented. And Andre protects it very well. And he also monitors TU. So most likely, Linmarfishing is going to receive a phone call or letter. He's already went after Strike King for patent infringement and he also forced Del-Mar and Lurecraft to stop selling the Sweet Beaver molds. So if the mold is illegal why wouldn't baits off of the mold be illegal? It doesn't matter who makes the mold. DaBehr, if you will look at the bottom right hand corner of Reaction's website, you will see the patent number for the Sweet Beaver. Guys I really don't understand why someone doing hand pours would want to do an exact copy of a bait. Seems like to me, one of the whole reasons for doing hand pours is coming up with unique and personal designs. But everyone needs to keep in mind that a lot of these big companies monitor TU. Not only do they check for patent infringements and copyright violations, but they also search for new design ideas. So be careful what you post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipt Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 i suppose it could be illegal if you knew it was illegal when you bought it and used it... i just dont see how it can be the consumers responsibility to check patent numbers and designs to make sure what they are buying is legal. if you buy something at the store that later is ruled a copyright / patent infringement, you committed a crime? you arent responsible for what people sell and figuring out if they are infact legal or not. im not promoting buying copies or copying baits at all, its all for argument sake that you can buy what someone offers until told otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 If you ask any law enforcement officer or court official they will tell you real quick ignorance of the law is no excuse, but think about it for a minute, its a very popular bait and none of the other major mold makers have the mold, that there is enough for a red flag. I agree with you that the consumer is kind of innocent on this thing, but not knowing that its illegal cannot stop you from being prosecuted. I know this because my wife is deputy clerk of courts at our local court house. It boils down to an irresponsible mold maker not caring about his customers as much as he does his money, some of these guys need to do there homework before they put a copy for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 One example would be of a pawn shop buying an item they thought was legit. If the police learn you bought a "hot" item, even though you did everything in your power to make sure it was a legitimate purchase, they are still going to confiscate said item and the pawn broker is left holding the bag. And like Mike said, ignorance of the law is no excuse. I can vouch for that one from personal experience. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I am not sure what "part" of that bait is patented, but there are plenty of similar molds that are available and legal ....Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveh Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I know the ribs on the body is patented maybe the tail.Back when RI was going after everyone i heard there lawyers had a search engine that would search out the word beaver on all of the sites. Better buy one fast because i bet they won`t be up long.I no longer care about copying someones bait since they steal our ideas.But that is me.I no longer make or have the beaver molds but wish i did.They work in the rivers around here and they are pretty pricey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 How does a county ordinance about sandals and flip flops pertain to federal patent laws? Just because a law is not enforced does not make it legal. Breaking the law is breaking the law. Contact your local magistrate and ask them if you don't know about a law are you still breaking the law or not. Ignorance of the law is no excuse has as much to do with the law today as in times past. Go to a state that you have no idea of what their hunting seasons are and start hunting. If it's not hunting season, whether you know it or not you will still be arrested for poaching. Also the same way with fishing laws. And even nowadays people commonly receive citations and are prosecuted for these exact things. What about the person who is innocently sitting in a car and their friend goes in and robs a store and they have no knowledge of what the friend is doing, they still get jail time. Take me for example, do you think I would have spent $12,000 on molds if I had any idea I was infringing on a patent? But yet I am guilty of patent infringment and cannot produce product off of my molds. I had no knowledge of this, but I'm still guilty and it's still my responsibility to have found out whether or not I was infringing. Therefore, I'm still bound by the law to abide by the cease and desist or risk further legal action. And I had no knowledge whatsoever of the law. These are just examples. Again, if it's against the law, it's against the law. And to advise anyone otherwise, is very irresponsible. I am saying these things because I did contact an attorney. A couple of them as a matter of fact. And letters were even sent back and forth from each attorney. And if it would have went to court, I would have had to have paid money for all the times that I did not know I was breaking the law. This is what the patent attorney explained to me. Bottom line is, if the mold is illegal then the product from the mold is illegal. I was also assured of this by the patent attorney. And yes I did ask the question, "even though I didn't know it?" and his answer was to me, "it doesn't matter, infringment is infringment." I myself would never suggest to anyone, oh you can do it until you get caught. They can't do anything to you. This is just irresponsible and not very good advice. I personally don't want to see anyone get in trouble or take a chance of getting in trouble. And if I hadn't talked to an attorney and I wasn't sure of these facts, then by all means I would not post it and then say check with an attorney. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Since the question was about a patent infringment is it not the responsibility of a moldmaker to have general knowledge, just like the hunting? Is a patent # on a package and listed on a website not a reasonable way to know that you are infringing? I did not say that you were suggesting for someone to violate the patent. But you were suggesting that by not knowing that the product is patented, that no legal action could be taken, which is a false statement. As far as how much Zoom made me pay, all of my legal fees and remember I had no knowledge of this and I also had no way of knowing whether or not the information Zoom gave me was correct. You're basically trying to argue with me but what you're really trying to say is what the patent attorney told me is wrong. Contact any federal law enforcement agency and run your theory by them and you will be told whether you know the law or not, if you break it, you can be prosecuted. It's very simple, if you infringe on a patent, you're breaking the law. How is that not simple? And again, pertaining to federal patent laws, and after I have talked to a patent attorney, who explained to me in a situation such as the question that was asked in the beginning, that ignorance of a patent law is no excuse. I was referring to no other law but patent laws. The knee jerk comments were made when someone just decides to argue for the sake of arguing, who says they are not a lawyer, and to always contact a lawyer, and then the person that did contact a lawyer posts what they were told by the lawyer, and then you tell them that the information I received does not pertain to the subject. Go back and quote where I was talking about anything other than patent infringment, besides the examples that I gave, when you alone decided that my comment pertained to every law in existence, which it did not. My comment pertained to the question that was asked at the beginning of this thread. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't spend my time just looking for an argument. I try to be responsible enough to shoot people the facts to keep someone from winding up in the situation that I found myself in. After all, I was as innocent as the guy that was thinking about purchasing the mold. I tried to help someone to avoid a costly situation that I found myself in. In what way did you help answer the gentleman's question, or did you just spend your time scrutinizing my comments? After all, I am the one that paid the patent attorneys for the information. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluff-Bassin Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Not to kick up a post from the grave, but I've been reading all these and maybe this is a stupid question, but as long as there is not patent on a bait, ie. on their website, or packaging, are you ok to make a POP mold and pour them for your own use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBehr Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 If there is a patent...Technically...no....but it's unlikely they would sue you for the lost revenue from the baits you would have purchased from them. If you sell them...then they can go after you for 3X the lost revenue, and possibly any damage you have done to their brand or reputation. If there is no Design (how it looks) or Utility (how it works) Patent...your safe...assuming that their isn't a "patent pending" that you don't know about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) They no longer offer that mold,it is not on there site any more. I told you guys that the big boys look at TU. Edited February 26, 2013 by carolinamike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longhorn Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Looks like the molds are history...probably due to this tread...no longer on their product list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveh Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 surprised it stayed up as long as it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
