412BaitCo Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 So there's been so much legal craziness flying around with craw molds lately and I'm looking to add one to my line up. Before I invest in molds for my company I'm looking for some feedback from the big guys. What craw mold out there would you say shoots the most consistent/produces fish the best that won't earn you a cease and desist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uma62 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I like the BT 702 Craw.Nice bait with great action.Shoots great also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick reif Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 http://www.bearsbaits.com/KODIAK-CRAW-2-TRAILER-175_p_284.html this is my favorite chunk. http://www.basstackle.com/product_p/crawtrailer4cavity.htm this is my second favorite. Paca and Rage may have something to say, but joke them if they can't take a &^%$. Sometimes it feels like the bigger bait company's are taking the same tactics as the cattle barrens did out west in the late 1800's. The only exception is that todays range rovers are dressed in a suit and tie instead of denims and a Winchester. I don't sell my baits for a reason. It ain't worth the headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saugerman Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 702 Craw from Basstackle, I'm with Uma62. It's a great bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivelargemouth Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Just wondering which craw molds you were talking about that people are being sued over. I haven't heard about this and just want to steer clear of trouble. I have a feeling if this is true that one of them may be made by basstackle (the chigger craw), it's pretty much dead on except it is double sided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
412BaitCo Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I've heard so far of ccm MAD dad being a problem and a bears craw as well. I've also heard bear has worked out the issue but ccm has not. I know no legalities of all this nor do I even want to get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 The chigger craw mold is Dels is it not? Basstackle does not have one like that. Plus just to make a point there has been no suing just threats. So if you are going to fold over a letter then don't make any baits at all. What I mean by that is say you get the 702 from Basstackle and get a letter that says it is a bait that infringes on a patent and you just fold up then does that make it an infringement? If so then they can send letters to all the small guys and put them out of business. Until someone fights it. The 702 is one great bait and would be a bait that would be a plus in anybody's line up. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Frank, are you saying that if you get a ceast and desist letter that you're going to hire a lawyer and fight it, especially, when if it goes that far, 95% of the time, the patent holder wins? Just curious. It seems to me like it would be best to be original and avoid trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivelargemouth Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Frank, you're right, I did get that mold from Del. Both the Chigger craw and the crazy legs. About fighting the man... I don't make enough money doing this to hire a lawyer (at $500 an hour) nor do I have the time to put in to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Frank, are you saying that if you get a ceast and desist letter that you're going to hire a lawyer and fight it, especially, when if it goes that far, 95% of the time, the patent holder wins? Just curious. It seems to me like it would be best to be original and avoid trouble. What I am saying is that they can send those letters to all the small guys and you will get a ton of people on sites like this saying it is patented but unless you fight it you will never know. 95% of people will just fold because they don't want to fight. Lets say you (Mike) get a letter saying one of your baits you have been making is patented do you just fold up? And once you fold you will get another letter for another mold ,then another. It could never stop unless you stop it. And that means you have to fight. So I guess the answer is yes I would. Just on principal. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 What I am saying is that they can send those letters to all the small guys and you will get a ton of people on sites like this saying it is patented but unless you fight it you will never know. 95% of people will just fold because they don't want to fight. Lets say you (Mike) get a letter saying one of your baits you have been making is patented do you just fold up? And once you fold you will get another letter for another mold ,then another. It could never stop unless you stop it. And that means you have to fight. So I guess the answer is yes I would. Just on principal. Frank Frank, I did get a letter, as a matter of fact I got 3 or 4 letters concerning 2 different molds and I spent the money and consulted with 2 different attorneys who told me that 95% of the people lose cases like this. There is not too much principal involved when it comes to spending money for nothing. These werent hand pour molds, it was 2 production molds at 6000 dollars a piece and that dosent include the attorney fees and it happened just like you said, I got a letter on one mold then 2 or 3 months later, a letter on another mold. Not only was I advised by 2 attorneys that I would lose (one was a patent attorney) I was also advised that the larger companies would stretch the case out as long as possible in order to bleed me dry, and the lawyer asured me that he couldn't work for free. If a mold is infringing, then why fight on principal? if you are wrong, is it wise to enter a battle you cannot win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 You are right about that it is not worth fighting but what if they kept giving you letters on all of your molds. They would put you out of business. That is what they want. But did you feel that the mold maker was at fault? That is where this post was going. All of this is just a real pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivelargemouth Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Mike, I'm curious, were these molds that you had special made or were they ones that were designed by say Basstackle or Del-mart that may or may not have been made in the image of another companies bait? If they were ones that someone else made or designed then can't you get your money back on the mold. I asked Kevin at Basstackle a long time ago if I could buy his molds, make baits and sell them and be perfectly legal and he assured me I could... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 BT 702 is best action craw I have tried. Four cavity shoots better than two cavity. And it does not currently infringe on patents. A lot of places make and sell them so there is competition. ...Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 In my case the moldmaker was not at fault. The mold was made at my request using a design that I had sold for 5 years or more to the public (in stores and on the internet). And I agree that it was irresponsible on my part for not doing my homework. It was a severe hard lesson to learn and you can bet I didn't make that mistake again. But I think it is the responsiblity for any moldmaker who is making a large amount of generic molds for sale to the public to do their homework. After all, I don't feel like it's up to an individual to have to consider fighting a battle that he did not start. What I'm trying to say is, is when a mass produced mold is put out on the market, you shouldn't have to worry about being sued by a bigger company. I mean really it's kind of pathetic that someone has to voice concerns such as this. Be it for a hobby or for sale. But like you said Frank, it's a real pain to even have to consider things such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
412BaitCo Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Yeah it's a pain to say the least! Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm leaning towards the 702 given all the replies. Well see how it goes I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I will be selling one of my 702 four cavity soon. I only need one since I dont sell baits anymore. Let me know if interested. ...Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
412BaitCo Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) I had a very interesting PM due to this thread from one of the moldmakers. He said people didn't want original designs as much as they wanted copies of existing designs. I understand this up to a point, but you can make an original design and still be close to an existing design without infringing on anyone's patent. You may have to educate yourself on patents and like I've said before, really do your homework. But you can come up with a creative design without using anyone's patent points. For instance, the thread that's up right now, I believe it's called "Name that bait", the bait in the picture is a prime example of creativity. The bait is similar to the beaver, but if you look closely the ridges on the body are completely different. Although it looks similar to a beaver, the gentleman was smart enough to stay away from Reaction's patent points. Edited March 29, 2013 by carolinamike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteSS Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 But people that want Beavers want it to look identical or they wont buy it. Customers are very anal about that. ...Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) Bill, thats exactly the point that the PM stressed. The gentleman said that when he refuses to make exact copies then he loses customers. When it comes to the beaver I'm as guilty as anyone, many years ago I made them and sold them off of lurecraft's molds. I can actually remember purchasing a mold from them that had the initials R.I. in the tail. By all means i'm not bad mouthing this mold maker, I just thought that people were open to new designs. I didnt realize that the demand for exact copies was that high. It makes sense in a way but in ways in dosen't. I am just glad that I dont do retail sales of baits and I stopped tournement fishing. Edited March 30, 2013 by carolinamike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 If people want exact copy's then let them buy the exact one from the name brand. If they are that anal then don't fuss with them. Sticks are the same way let them have the business then they will just complain about the price. If they want a special color then they have to deal with what you have. In my mind if it is color then having a name brand bait is not the key the color is. Market stuff to people that want it not the one who will never be happy. Frank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
412BaitCo Posted March 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I agree with frank on this one and honestly it's exactly what makes selling baits a slow start. At first it seems you can only sell if your making exact copies of something already popular but in reality it's like anything else. You have to get out there and build the consumers faith in the product you have and slowly but surely you will grow a following of customers that are faithful to your product and not people that are just looking for a cheap alternative to someone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 But people that want Beavers want it to look identical or they wont buy it. Customers are very anal about that. ...Bill That's because most magazine readers can't think on their own . Creativity and the human brain is a wonderful asset to have- you just have to use them. Ignorance can be fixed,stupid & anal is forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 That's because most magazine readers can't think on their own . Creativity and the human brain is a wonderful asset to have- you just have to use them. Ignorance can be fixed,stupid & anal is forever I resemble that remark! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
