Red Cedar Vs Basswood

[quickdraw]

On my wood swimbaits I've been using basswood for the past few years and have had good results as far as construction and action. A few of my baits had leaks on the topcoat though and the basswood although seeled has cracked. I finally found a source for Western Red Cedar and have been thinking about giving it a go but a reasonable order plus shipping is around $100. Has anyone used Red Cedar on large baits? Does it crack when it gets wet? What other advantages does it have? Does anyone have a source for it? Thanks

[diemai]

@ quickdraw

 

In my opinion PVC decking is a far more better suited material for swimbaits compared to ANY kind of timber , .....simply because it cannot soak up water .

 

Otherwise I don't have enough experience regarding basswood and red cedar , .....not native timbers over here .

 

                                       Cheers , diemai

[Vodkaman]

Red cedars score high on the allergy scale, but this should not be a problem, as like a good woodworker, you are always wearing a quality mask

 

Here are three links to pages from the same site. The shrinkage numbers kind of explain why you are having problems. The red cedar numbers are a lot lower, so should reduce your splitting problems.

 

The red cedar is denser, so is not a direct replacement and you will have to do some more testing to get the ballast right again.

 

basswood

southern red

allergies

 

Good website, worth saving.

 

Dave

[rjbass]

I use Red Cedar for Musky baits exclusively. I seal it with sanding sealer and then prime before paint and then top coat and have never had an issue. It will not soak up water like basswood. Basswood is like a sponge and if any water gets in it will expand and split your top coat. I have had big musky teeth puncture my top coat and nothing happens, the bait keeps on kicking....

 

Rod

[Seeking 56]

According to the Janka scale, WRC has a hardness of 350 vs Basswood 410 so WRC is a little softer.  I've repaired musky basswood lures that cracked for no apparent reason.

 

Stick with cedar and you won't have to worry about exposed wood due to hook rash and teeth marks as water will not soak in. 

 

Look for cedar construction lumber that has tight grain.

  

s54.

[quickdraw]

Thanks for the information guys. I'm currently trying to convert all of my wood swimbait shapes over to poured resin but some just don't have the same action as the wood versions. Living in the desert SW I usually let my wood sit for a few months to finish drying out before I start using it so I'm just looking for some options using wood. I was also looking into Alaskan Yellow cedar because it contains less oil and is harder although it is slightly less buoyant.

[Vodkaman]

Resin, even with micro balloons is much denser than cedar or basswood and shows the effect of density on a lures action, with a SG of around 0,7. I gave up playing with resin because I like a lot of action. But, a wide action is not always the fishes choice.

 

Dave

[TroutScout]

I am using both Red Cedar & Basswood for large Lake Trout lures.  I tried PVC decking and the sanding dust made me very sick.

 

The difficulty I find with Red Cedar is that when drilling the holes for the line tie or hook hangers, that the drill bit tends to wander when it strikes the denser annual rings, so I have to hold the wood tight as well as the drill and steer it straight. The Red Cedar sands faster than the Basswood but has more grain than Basswood. I find the Red Cedar more "water repellant" than the Basswood, The finish (D2T topcoat, Createx, D2T as a sealer) cracked on a few Basswoods, but not often. I figure I must have missed a spot when doing the original seal. Red  Cedar is available at Lowes and Home Depot. I don't see any difference in the behavior of the lures, both woods seem to have the same action. 

 

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with Redwood? Any pros or cons?

Edited April 5, 2013 by TroutScout

[woodieb8]

we use red cedar daily. its excellent for rot and it holds paint/screws well. just seal it..

redwood is very close to cedar. availability is hard to get..

[Seeking 56]

I have a couple of Redwood (Sequoia) boards and it's specifically for the reason that it's not readily available that I haven't used it yet.

 

There's something mystical about Sequoia wood for me and I will use it for that special lure or if the price is right.

 

s54

[quickdraw]

I need 1 1/2" or 2x2 wood for my swimbaits and I can't find that at Lowes or Home Depot locally. If I could find a 2 x whatever I'd be happy but no joy.

[TroutScout]

quickdraw,

 

I see that you are in the Southwest, so I guessed Arizona and looked on-line at HomeDepot in Mesa.  They have Red Cedar. Here is a link to a 4 x 4 x 8 split rail.

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100093027?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=red+cedar+2+x+4+x+8&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100093027#.UV-XdJNItrN

Edited April 6, 2013 by TroutScout

[woodieb8]

4by4 cedar deck post. remember when sorting. many lumber sellers have the misnomer kiln dried.then the dummies store it outside in the weather/rain.

[Ggeorge]

These woods aren't rare, well rare if you shop at the big box "lumber yards" I guess. I`ve been in wood related things for 30 years and it pisses me off to see how tough it is to source ordinary woods in the lamestream. Blame Lowes and Home Depot for this, they are the cause of the disappearance of real lumber yards.

 

To come up with anything not in the big box stores try wholesaler / jobber outlets. To find one of these wood sellers contact a local cabinet or kitchen manufacturer and see who they source these woods from.

 

Cedar from a typical lumber supply is wet by design, the wholesalers and shippers and the mills who harvest this wood keep the stock under sprinklers to prevent excessive drying until it reaches the end seller. Kiln dried does not mean bone dry, it means dried until a desirable level of moisture is achieved. In the case of building grade woods this is close to 20% moisture content. In contrast cabinet or finish grade lumbers are dried to closer to 10% moisture content.

 

These are the sorts of things that would be common knowledge in the lumber world but not in places like Home Depot where they aren't really in the wood selling business so much as the money making business. Big difference.

 

For an easy and reliable supply of quality woods find yourself a shop that is dedicated to selling wood to cabinet makers and woodworkers. Try Yellow Pages / Lumber Wholesalers or similar.

[RayburnGuy]

You can sometimes find folks with small mills who do custom cutting of lumber. A friend on mine did this when building his house. He contacted a guy with one of these small mills and they worked out a deal where it was done on halves if I remember correctly. My friend cut the logs and hauled them to the mill where his half was cut to his specifications. Not sure if this is a viable option in your area, but it might be worth looking into.

 

Ben

[quickdraw]

Thanks for the info. I'm in Vegas. Lowes and HD internet sites list Cedar but the stores don't carry it. I've been to wood suppliers for cabinet shops and nobody carries cedar. I don't know what it is about cedar in the desert but I haven't found any locally and have done a good job looking locally.

[stretcher66]

have you tried this place?  http://www.petermanlumber.com/

[Ggeorge]

Stretcher I wish that lumber supply was accessible to me, serious, real and truly old school. They actually know something about wood and keep a stock of unique items.

 

Living proof that customer service combined with practical ideas about stock can hold it's own in the Big Box world.

[quickdraw]

have you tried this place?  http://www.petermanlumber.com/

 

Yep I have been to their location. If I was building furniture the have great wood but they do not have any cedar blocks or boards over 1/2" thick.

[Ggeorge]

Epoxy 1/2 inch slabs together to gain the thickness you need.

[quickdraw]

Epoxy 1/2 inch slabs together to gain the thickness you need.

Thanks but no. I turn my wood on a lathe and while I still could do that I'm not looking for even more places to deal with something separating or dealing with any balance issues. I will just order the right wood and deal with the shipping charges. I'll have wood for 50 or 60 swimbaits  so the $40 shipping charges aren't really that important.

[sallystrothers]

Red cedars score high on the allergy scale, but this should not be a problem, as like a good woodworker, you are always wearing a quality mask

 

Here are three links to pages from the same site. The shrinkage numbers kind of explain why you are having problems. The red cedar numbers are a lot lower, so should reduce your splitting problems.

 

The red cedar is denser, so is not a direct replacement and you will have to do some more testing to get the ballast right again.

 

basswood

southern red

allergies

 

Good website, worth saving.

 

Dave

 

That is a good website, they have all the relevant properties on one site!

[stretcher66]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-EASTERN-RED-CEDAR-TURNING-BLOCKS-LUMBER-LATHE-2-X-2-X-11-/251234115104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7eb85e20

free shipping to boot!!

[Ggeorge]

In theory you can take more control of failing points in your wood by eliminating things like knots and pairing dense grain with similar on the laminated halves. Epoxied or glued wood joints are usually stronger than the surrounding wood.

 

I had a look at those ebay cedar blocks and noticed the usual heartwood, small knots and varied grain patterns. Not suggesting they are no good, just observing that they are pretty typical of that species. By gluing selected slabs one could actually improve reliability on the lathe as regards chip out or grain feathering or total destruction from surprise failures.

 

I guess it depends on what you are comfortable with.

[quickdraw]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-EASTERN-RED-CEDAR-TURNING-BLOCKS-LUMBER-LATHE-2-X-2-X-11-/251234115104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7eb85e20

free shipping to boot!!

I found another Ebay listing for Western Red Cedar for less than 1/2 the price on that listing and free shipping also so I decided to give it a try.