j27 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'm having a problem with some of my lips coming out of my baits. I make basa flat sided cranks and I'm using lexan lips that I make myself. I use d2t epoxy and sometimes the 5 min epoxy. I'm also drilling two small holes in the lip thinking that it will make a stronger bond to the balsa. I place a good bit of epoxy in the lip slot and also press some in the holes on the lip as well before putting together and wiping away the excess. The baits are about 1 to 1 1/2 years old and have caught many fish. Its only happened to 3 baits so far. Is there something else I can do to help this or is this normal for balsa cranks at that age? Was thinking maybe drill larger diameter holes. Any help with this would be very much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 In addition to drilling holes in the lip I use a diamond burr in the Dremel to rough up the part of the lip that fits inside the body of the bait. My thinking is that this will provide a better surface for the epoxy to bite to. I also cut the lip slot so the lip slides in easily, but not so loose that the lip can move up or down. I try to leave just enough gap between the lip and lure to get a good covering of epoxy between the two. hope this helps, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajay920 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'd like to hear some more on this. I had one fall out today just as I was tieing it on. I've tried a few things, sanding the lip, drilling a hole in it. But the best I have found is to drill a hole into the chin through the wood and lip and back into the the wood. I then epoxy in a pin or nail. I usually only do this when I have a problem and I usually only have a problem on very small cranks ( the one today was only 1 1/2" long, or when I don't get a good seal and water gets in to loosen the glue joint. I've only recently started using DT2, Hoping that will help. Thanks TU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 The glue surface on a flat sided bait is small so you need to do everything you can to help it stick in there! I cut a couple of slots in the rear of the lip so when I push the lip into the slot filled with epoxy, it will "key in" the glue. Sanding the portion of the lip that will be glued also helps. Like Ben alluded to, epoxy needs some film thickness to form its best bond and you don't want to cut the slot so tight that the epoxy film is too thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsgorilla Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Do u use through-wire design? I just thought of this so it may be a really stupid idea. With the bait cut in half, u could drill a small hole in the lip that lines up with a small drilled hole u make on each side in the lip slot of the balsa. Put a tiny lead shot, bb, tiny pin crossways or what have you in the lip hole, insert the lip/bb in the lip slot (along with your epoxy), and put your two sides back together. The lip won't be able to pull out because it will be anchored in the bait head. Depending on how heavy your anchor choice is, u may have to adjust your weighting a hair to counterbalance to your liking. I am 1000 miles from being an engineering genius like some of the fine fellows on this site so if this idea is idiotic, I apologize. Edited April 14, 2013 by bsgorilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) I had forgotten about the method Kayjay described. I've used that method anytime I was worried about the amount of glue surface on smaller lures that had the line tie going directly into the bait without passing through the lip. Toothpicks have worked for me when pinning a lip. They are plenty strong enough because the force put on the toothpick will be in a shear position. I'm guessing your using 1/16" Lexan on smaller, flat sided cranks and it takes quite a bit of pressure to break a toothpick in such a small distance. You could test it by placing a toothpick in your hands with only a 1/16" gap between your hands. Then take something like a butter knife, or anything that doesn't apply a cutting force, and have someone apply pressure on the toothpick. I'm betting it will surprise you as to how much force it takes to break the toothpick in such a small gap. Ben Edited April 14, 2013 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j27 Posted April 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Thanks for all the input guys. Yes i do use through-wire construction with 1/16th lexan. I have used the pinning method but thought it was overkill and was trying to cut out a step, thats what I get for being lazy. I will try changing it up a bit on this next batch, after reading this I'm thinking I may have cut the lip slot a bit to tight. I liked cut them just enough to touch but no so much that you had to press the lip in. Apparently thats not enough epoxy film. I'm also interested in this slot BobP. That sounds better than drilling holes. Would like to know how your cutting those. Are you using a cut off wheel on a dremel tool? Also, are you cutting all the way through the lip or just enough to make a groove to hold epoxy? Thanks TU, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j27 Posted April 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Here is a picture the guy sent of my bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfflipper Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 are those the little earls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 You can use a Dremel cutoff wheel (I like the thin fiber reinforced kind) but I most often use some micro burrs that happen to fit my Dremel. Either works fine. I cut the slots all the way through the lip at the back of the lip, about 1/4" deep. I'll cut one or two slots depending on how much room I have to work with. I fill the lip slot with epoxy and push in the clean (no epoxy) lip. The epoxy fills the slots as you push in the lip and you only need to wipe off the epoxy that squeezes out the back of the lip slot. I use slow cure Rod Bond Paste Epoxy to mount lips. It's easier to fill the lip slot with it and it won't dribble out like a liquid epoxy can. I also like that it is a VERY slow cure epoxy that doesn't begin to harden for a couple of hours. I can mix some up, mount a bunch of bait lips, clean off any squeeze-out, then take my time fiddling with the lips to make sure they are straight. I try to mount lips at the end of the day so they can hang overnight for the paste epoxy to harden, then clearcoat the baits the next day. Rod Bond also comes in a fast cure 10 minute formula for those for whom patience is a foreign concept. But since we want as strong as bond as possible, it is true that slow cure epoxies are stronger than quick cure epoxies. I also recommend NOT using 5 minute epoxy anywhere on a bait that will show, including to mount the lip. It will always turn an ugly brown eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I've found the Devcon 5 minute epoxy is water resistant, not waterproof, like the D2T, and will eventually soften and fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaze Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 are those the little earls Looks like a Mike Bowers bait to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j27 Posted April 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Jblaze and jwfflipper - this bait is my version of the old GULP plugs. Gulp was made by Jim Harter starting in the 60's. I just tweaked it a bit to my liking. Thanks guys, I'm not using any of the 5 min stuff anymore. Another great piece of advise with the rob bond paste. Never used any of the rod building stuff. It was a concern I had with cutting the lip slot larger and having the epoxy dribble out. The paste sounds like the way to go. I'm going to start look for some, I'm assuming any rod building supplier will have it or is there a particular brand I need to look for? But for now I will have to use D2T, I have friends waiting on this batch I have going now. Thanks to all, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I buy U-40 Rod Bond paste epoxy from mudhole.com but I'm sure other rod building outlets sell it. A couple of other brands have appeared recently but I haven't tried them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
