Captain Ron Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Help anyone, I have been using Createx Wicked Paint on my hard baits and Dick Knights S-81 top coat. I dip the lures in the top coat, This morning I dipped 9 Crankbaits and three of them wrinkled really bad, to the point where they will have to be redone. Any help on this matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all........Capt Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 A few questions: Did you dip the baits only once? What did you do with the baits after you dipped them? Did you use any solvent based coatings on the baits for priming or waterproofing? S81 is touchy stuff and doesn't always work well with solvent based coatings. I'm not familiar with Wicked colors but assume they are acrylic latex. I don't have problems with S81. I dip once only. I hang them to dry and cure after dipping. And I don't use solvent based coatings under the S81. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ron Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 First off ty for responding so quick Bob, this is what it says about Createx Wicked colors. Wicked Colors is an ultra-high performance, multi-surface airbrush paint suitable for any substrate from fabric to automotive applications. Wicked Colors are perfect for t-shirts, automotive graphics, illustration and most any application. Wicked contains mild amounts of solvent inter-mixed with a durable, exterior-grade resign and automotive pigments for an extremely durable paint that withstands direct, prolonged exposure to outdoors elements without washing or fading. Wicked Colors have exceptional flow and atomization right out of the bottle with most airbrush tip-sizes, including 0.2mm detail tips. Wicked Colors may be reduced with W100 Reducer or Auto Air 4011 Flash Reducer in any ratio for improved flow, atomization and customizing viscosity preferences. All Wicked Colors are made with the same highly durable binder. Wicked Colors are sheered to a binder size of 0.5 microns and dry semi-gloss level of 70+ degrees. Wicked Detail Colors are sheered to a particle size of 0.1 microns and dry to a flat finish of 30+ degrees, perfect for illustrators as a flat finish reflects the color’s true hue. For automotive refinishing, a durable, catalyzed urethane clear is recommended. Wicked Colors cure to a strong film with air drying alone. Heat may be used to further assist curing and is recommended for t-shirts and fabrics intended for use with multiple washings. Heat is not required for automotive, illustration and most other applications. For more application information, visit our website’s technical pages. What should I use over the Wicked colors to protect them from the S-81. I love the Createx Wicked Colors and the S-81 also. Thank you again Bob and all who respond....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 When I removed finish mechanically from baits coated with S81, I saw that the topcoat penetrated the acrylic paint and formed a bond with the underlying epoxy I use to waterproof baits - in effect, it became a monolithic finish which is a good thing. I think the S81 penetrated your Wicked colors and reacted with the solvent in the paint, or possibly with your primer or undercoating if you use one containing a solvent (which is why I asked). Since S81 penetrates, I'm at a loss to recommend how to stop it from reacting with solvents. I think the only fix is either don't use Wicked or allow the paint time to outgas all of its solvent before you coat with the S81. Heating the paint will help. So will time. I guess you could also coat the paint with something S81 can't penetrate, like epoxy. But that doesn't seem like a smart fix to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 When I use a paint that doesn't like DN S81, like Badger, I always spray with Createx gloss coat, heat set then dip or paint with the DN. I use some Wicked Colors and as long as I heat set before using DN I have no problems. I wait at least 24 hours before applying a second coat of DN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 You can't put anything containing acetone over a water based finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 You can't put anything containing acetone over a water based finish. I use Dick Nite over Createx all the time. Heat set each coat and dip or brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Bob I'm glad it works for you. I'm standing by what I said however. You can't put a product using acetone over a water based paint. Acetone causes water based coatings to delaminate. I have no clue why some as yourself don't have issues and others do. Maybe it's got more to do with what was used to prime it etc. I don't know. I've seen it time and again though and what I said is commonly available on google. Take a lure you sprayed with createx and wipe it with acetone on a paper towel after you think it's dry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Salty's, I don't know what solvent is contained in DN S81. Do you? It doesn't smell like acetone to me, but what do I know? I use one of 2 undercoatings under acrylic latex paint: D2T epoxy or propionate dissolved in acetone, and I never have problems dipping lures in DN S81 as a topcoat. I'll probably start using Solarez since I have some and haven't had great results with it as a topcoat. I've tried it on a couple of lures with no problems under DN. Everyone tries various coatings and finds out what works for them. I'm pretty confident that the coatings I use will not react with each other and will result in a durable finish. I wish there were a different topcoat than DN S81 that performed so well and looked so good, without its storage problems, but I haven't found it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ron Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Salty's, I don't know what solvent is contained in DN S81. Do you? It doesn't smell like acetone to me, but what do I know? I use one of 2 undercoatings under acrylic latex paint: D2T epoxy or propionate dissolved in acetone, and I never have problems dipping lures in DN S81 as a topcoat. I'll probably start using Solarez since I have some and haven't had great results with it as a topcoat. I've tried it on a couple of lures with no problems under DN. Everyone tries various coatings and finds out what works for them. I'm pretty confident that the coatings I use will not react with each other and will result in a durable finish. I wish there were a different topcoat than DN S81 that performed so well and looked so good, without its storage problems, but I haven't found it yet. Hey Bob, according to DN the S-81 contains Lacquer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ron Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 When I use a paint that doesn't like DN S81, like Badger, I always spray with Createx gloss coat, heat set then dip or paint with the DN. I use some Wicked Colors and as long as I heat set before using DN I have no problems. I wait at least 24 hours before applying a second coat of DN. Thanks Bob, I will sure give that Createx gloss coat a try. I also want to try some of that Solarez dual-cure polyester resin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castncall Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I had the same problem on 2 differant times. I have came to the conclusion it was one of 2 things first I didn't let the bait dry or heat dry properly on all coat so it pulled mosture from the bottom coat causing this, the other thing is humitdity I think it had something to do with it when it first happened but not for sure. I have painted with createx for over 5 yrs but using some wcked colors now and it hasn't happened to me again " knock on wood" bc it sucks once you get done and it looks good you dip and walk out of the room and come back and yhea I might have cried a little when it happened to me but hopefully I got it al out over thepast 5 yrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ron Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 OK, I said I would report in after all my findings on the Wrinkling of the Createx Paint after using DN S-81 Clear Top Coat. I consulted the Tech's at Createx and got a lot of valuable feedback from all my TU members and I must say after testing and testing and more testing, looks like the problem is solved. A great big thank you to all that contributed. TU is a great place to go for help. Thank you all. Captain Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ron Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 OK, I said I would report in after all my findings on the Wrinkling of the Createx Paint after using DN S-81 Clear Top Coat. I consulted the Tech's at Createx and got a lot of valuable feedback from all my TU members and I must say after testing and testing and more testing, looks like the problem is solved. A great big thank you to all that contributed. TU is a great place to go for help. Thank you all. Captain Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 And the problem was?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ron Posted April 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 RayburnGuy, on 26 Apr 2013 - 15:19, said: And the problem was?? The problem is listed in all the above postings and believe me I was just about to pull all my hair out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 Oh OK. So you actually had several problems. Glad you got it figured out and you still have your hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
