Etex Fish Eye'ing

[biggamefish]

hey guys i painted some cranks and after putting the etex on, a few minutes later i notice there were fish eye spots covering about 20-30% of the bait, what happend?

 

i use a small measuring cup, 50/50 mix, stir for about 2-3mins, making sure its throughly mixed, wait about 10 mins before applying it on the bait. 

 

any ideas? i also wear latex gloves while painting and handling the bait

[Stonepointer]

I have never used etex, but from advise I have found elsewhere here on other types of clear coats, you should probably mix it very slowly and make sure your coats are applied very thin.

 

I also use latex gloves when using epoxy, but I make sure I do not use the powder treated gloves, the powder could end up getting to your work pieces.

[RayburnGuy]

If the Etex is curing properly then it's not a problem in the way it was mixed. Improper mixing usually shows itself by the epoxy remaining sticky and never reaching a full cure. Most of the time fish eyes are caused by some form of contamination. If you coated more than one lure and this one was the only one you had problems with then I would say there was definitely contamination of some sort on that particular bait. Just because you were using gloves doesn't mean some type of oil couldn't have gotten on the glove. Especially if you've been using the same pair of gloves for a while. Try wiping them off with a rag, or paper towel, with some denatured alcohol on it. Or you can just wash them in Dawn dish washing liquid and hot water.

 

good luck,

Ben

[hazmail]

BGF-

I often have this problem especially now when it's cooling down here (-2 C last night). I always thought it must have been my fatty fingers, but as much as I tried I still got 'fisheyes', I even dipped them in alcohol or 'Shellite', still the same result-

 

Lately I suspect its moisture in/on the lure, until it's sealed the wood under the paint is continually sucking / blowing moisture-  try warming the lure up a bit (in the sun), not too hot, just enough to evaporate an moisture off the paint surface, let it cool off a bit and coat and see what happens--The reason I suspect this is I don't have nearly as much a problem in the summer days (night IS different), I think it may be moisture in the air condensing on the paint, especially if it's just a bit glossy - I tried this again today and unusually not one 'fish eye' on four lures I coated.

 

Also dry ALL your paint for at least a day, weather it's water based or auto acrylic, it has to 'gas off'..

Pete

[biggamefish]

wel i painted and epoxy three baits last night, this morning i check and epoxy on all three are cure so im assumming the mixing was right, im thinking it could of been 1)temperature problem cause it was lower than 70 degree in the room i top coated, 2) some contamination,    3) i didnt let the paint sit long enough to gas off, i believe it was 30mins to an hr before i sarted top coating, i painted and let the bait sat in the garage temperature was about 70-75ish

[Zbass]

Etex Lite is all I use for clear coats. 2 things I do that 99% of the time will prevent the eyeing. !st thing I do is after the bait is painted, heat setted adn has sat overnight in a dry enviorment, I coat it with a Krylon low odor matte spray. It is in a rattle can. You can get it at HL or Lowes. Just a light coat. Then after I apply my first coat of clear, (all baits get at least to coats), I pass the bait over a heat source for a few seconds. I use a propane camp heater. A heat gun would probably work too. IMO it lets the Etex flow a little better. I do this on all coat of Etex. This is what works for me and hope it helps.

One other thing that I believe causes the eyeing on some baits is pearlized or metalic. I did an experiment a couple years ago and had 2 baits painted exactly the same at the same time with a mix of pearl and metalic paints. Then "sealed" one with the Kylon and one I did not. The one not sealed eyed around the pearl and metalic paints and the other did not eye at all. That was enough for me. 

[biggamefish]

Zbass thanks for your input, i did use pearl and metallic to paint but i spray a rattle can clear coat on after the paint before i top coated with etex, i did one of my personal baits the same way, painted the same color pattern with same pearl & metallic paints, coated with same rattle can clear coat before final top coat with etex and had non of the fish eye problem, only thing different i remember is temperature, when i top coated my personal bait it was a bit warmer.

[Zbass]

I have not seen where the temps affected the eyeing problem. My shop temp varies. I try to keep it between 60 to 75 when top coating but that is for the initial cure time to how long I have to wait to take them off the wheel. The cooler the temp the longer I wait. I do let mine sit at least overnight before clear coating though. are you just doing one or 2 coats of Etex clear?

[biggamefish]

just one coat but its pretty thick already so i didnt bother with second coat

[biggamefish]

btw is there a way i can remove the etex off of the cranks? it's plastic strike king and spro cranks

[bobv]

The only time I get fish eyes is when I try to "stretch" the finish. Put it on thick and use your brush to level it out quickly and put on turner. 

[biggamefish]

The only time I get fish eyes is when I try to "stretch" the finish. Put it on thick and use your brush to level it out quickly and put on turner.

ok maybe this might of been it, i put on a thin coat and started from head and stretch it out to tail, i did add more when there wasnt enough though

Edited May 11, 2013 by biggamefish

[bobv]

ok maybe this might of been it, i put on a thin coat and started from head and stretch it out to tail, i did add more when there wasnt enough though

Yeah, I started the same way and figured out to start with a bunch and move down adding more as needed.

[biggamefish]

i did that with my personal resin bait and result was better, on the cranks i didnt want to add alot cause it might mess up the baits action so i put on a thin layer and stretch it out. 

 

Im thinking of auto clear now, it lays on thin and works on pretty much anything as far as i can see, and i dont have to worry much about it messing with the baits action.

[RayburnGuy]

i did that with my personal resin bait and result was better, on the cranks i didnt want to add alot cause it might mess up the baits action so i put on a thin layer and stretch it out. 

 

Im thinking of auto clear now, it lays on thin and works on pretty much anything as far as i can see, and i dont have to worry much about it messing with the baits action.

 

If I remember correctly epoxy is pretty close to the weight of water so as far as adding a lot of weight to the bait by using epoxy I would say it was fairly negligible.

 

Ben

[biggamefish]

Ben you might be right but what I notice it did affect the swim action of my personal bait a little, it sinks a little faster and doesnt suspend as long as before.

[RayburnGuy]

I finally felt energetic enough to look up the  specific gravity of D2T. Tap Plastics listed D2T as having a specific gravity of 0.97 so it is actually a wee bit lighter than water. Of course if you want to get really technical you would have to figure out the larger displacement size after the lure was top coated, the amount of paint and the difference in weight of it compared to water and the temperature of the water as well since colder water is more dense.  Dave (Vodkaman) explained all this to us once a while back, but it was more than my aging brain cells could grasp on to. I really don't think you have to get that technical to build a bait that catches fish. (although I do love to read about such things)

 

You didn't say whether or not you were building wooden baits or if you were painting plastic lures. (if you did I missed it) If your building wooden baits you can alter the sink rate with how much ballast you install. It's relatively easy using the Archimedes dunk test. I use the dunk test on all my baits. Even when building several of the same size and shape. My theory on ballasting lures is that any baits built by hand are going to be a little bit different no matter how hard you try to make them the same.

 

I did a test one time just to see how much difference in ballast there needed to be to turn a slowly sinking bait into a slow floater. The scale I use measures as low as 1/1000 of an ounce and the tiny sliver of ballast wouldn't even measure on the scale. This showed me that you can drive yourself nuts if you let yourself become too obsessed with this stuff.

 

The best advice I can offer is to experiment with a few different things and find something that works for you. Keep in mind that the more you work with something the more familiar your going to become with it and you'll know what to expect beforehand.

 

Here's the link to the specific gravity of D2T in case anyone is interested.

 

good luck,

Ben

 

http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/MSDS%20Devcon%202%20Ton%20Clear.pdf

[biggamefish]

Ben my personal bait is a urethane resin jointed swimbait around 8 inch in lenght, i swim test it before i painted, it had a very slow fall and lazy action i was looking for, after painted and top coated with the etex, i notice that it sinks a little faster and when retrieve i couldn't get the desire lazy action anymore because i had to keep the bait up from sinking by retrieving faster.

it could of been the weight of the paint but its such a small amount i would dout that it is, the bait just felt heavier after the coat of etex, it still has a good floatation but action did minus a bit.

 

I don't use the Archimedes technique, i simply just place weight in and sink test it and slowly drill weight out until i get the desire rate of fall, I need to try and use the Archimedes technique though lol probably would cut some time off

[RayburnGuy]

I didn't check the specific gravity of Etex, but would imagine it would be close to what other epoxies are. Don't have a clue as to why it would slow the action though. It will take better minds than mine to answer that. If you figure it out let us know as it would be teaching me something.

 

Ben

[biggamefish]

well do Ben thanks

[BobP]

There are only 2 ways I've ever been able to remove cured epoxy.  I can heat it up with a torch and it will bubble and become easy to peel off.  Or I can use a thin, very sharp knife to get under the epoxy and peel it off.  Either way, the bait has to be repainted afterward.  Torching finish off a lure is very fast but you have to be very careful not to damage the lip or expand a plastic bait.  And if you are torching original finish off a commercial wood lure, be aware that some brands use a thick "build layer" on the raw wood that will burst into fire at the first touch of a flame.  I tried torching a Poe 400 one time and it became the lure's funeral pyre.  Torching an old wood Rapala worked beautifully and it was ready to paint in a few seconds with the build layer intact.