Hidden Eye Jig Mold?

[patrick reif]

http://www.barlowstackle.com/-Do-It-Hidden-Eye-Brush-Weedless-Jig-Molds-P263C56.aspx

 

I need a new jig mold for the river.  I usually use a round head jig with a wire weed guard while fishing a jig and pig, but that isn't great around the wood we have on the local flow.

 

Does this head design work well in the rocks too, or should I just go ahead and buy the traditional football head?  I'm only asking because I like the stand up design of it.  It seems to make the chunk look like a craw ready for a fight.

 

 

I know I'm reading too much into the details here since I am targeting river small mouth, but that's what brought me to bait making to begin with... brought us all.

[smalljaw]

I fish river smallies all the time in the Susquehanna and Juniata rivers and occasionally the Deleware and I'm going to tell you, you don't want that mold for that. I use either a round head or a football head but I also use the 1/8oz poison tail, out of all of them the football head with a 60 degree flat eye hooks has worked the best for me.

[patrick reif]

that was what I needed to know.  Thanks

[cadman]

Patrick like smalljaw said that is not the jig for rocks. Also that jig head really isn't meant as a stand-up head, as it doesn't "Stand-up" if that is what you really want. Yet as discussed before, there is no jig that really stands up (IMO) on a lake bottom. The lakes we fish are not flat like a table top, there are many irregularities on the bottom.

[wadsword]

You may want to give a look at the new football trokar jig mold ( you can use a regular mustad hook in it).   http://www.barlowstackle.com/Do-It-Trokar-Football-Weedless-Jig-Mold-P2743C242.aspx .

It is a modified football head with a flat so that it can "stand up".  I have been using the Mustad 32786BLN with very good results.

Dan

[smalljaw]

You may want to give a look at the new football trokar jig mold ( you can use a regular mustad hook in it).   http://www.barlowstackle.com/Do-It-Trokar-Football-Weedless-Jig-Mold-P2743C242.aspx .

It is a modified football head with a flat so that it can "stand up".  I have been using the Mustad 32786BLN with very good results.

Dan

 

I fish the Susquehanna river along with the Juniata and they are very similar, the best jigheads for the original poster to use would be the round head or a football head, preferably with a  60 degree flat eye hook or a 90 degree aberdeen hook. The reason for this is the river bottoms are full of chunk rock and what happens is you get snagged from the jig getting wedged in the cracks of the rocks and every single head type will eventually get snagged. The difference is the round head with a light weight is easier to get out and a light weight football head avoids getting wedged a lot of the time and the flat eye hook and the 90 degree hook both keep the knot at the line tie from getting frayed as it keep the line up and away. In a lake with a sandy or hard bottom with normal substrate I think would be a great place for the Trokar football head.

[Apdriver]

I fish the Susquehanna river along with the Juniata and they are very similar, the best jigheads for the original poster to use would be the round head or a football head, preferably with a  60 degree flat eye hook or a 90 degree aberdeen hook. The reason for this is the river bottoms are full of chunk rock and what happens is you get snagged from the jig getting wedged in the cracks of the rocks and every single head type will eventually get snagged. The difference is the round head with a light weight is easier to get out and a light weight football head avoids getting wedged a lot of the time and the flat eye hook and the 90 degree hook both keep the knot at the line tie from getting frayed as it keep the line up and away. In a lake with a sandy or hard bottom with normal substrate I think would be a great place for the Trokar football head.

I fish a lot of chunk rock. I just bought do its football jig mold in hopes it may cut down on my hang ups in the rock. When you say light weight football jig, what weight is light to you for chunk rock?

[patrick reif]

for me, a 1/8 oz tube jig or 3/16 oz finesse jig is what I normally throw, but I'll have 1/4 oz jig heads handy in case the wind is blowing hard.

 

 

[smalljaw]

I fish a lot of chunk rock. I just bought do its football jig mold in hopes it may cut down on my hang ups in the rock. When you say light weight football jig, what weight is light to you for chunk rock?

 

It all depends on your situation, in my water I'm fishing 90% of the time in water no deeper than 6' so I'm throwing 1/8oz and 3/16oz most of the time unless I'm in strong current then I'll go with 1/4oz but very seldom do I go heavier than that in the river. If you're talking a lake, well that is altogether different, the reason is the rock, in the river you have areas of chunk rock that if you took the water away it would look like rip rap only it is on the bottom. In lakes when I'm dragging a football head over chunk rock the weight I use depends on how deep I'm fishing, 4' to 8' I'm using a 1/4oz, 9' to 12' I'll use a 3/8oz, and up to 15' I'll use a 1/2oz and deeper than 15' I'll use a 3/4oz.

[smallmouthaholic]

smalljaw-

                Your posts are informative and detailed and i do enjoy reading most of them.That stated,your adamant convictions concerning reduced snag river jigs is incorrect and compels me into this response.

 

              . Football jigs w/out a flexible wire guard,placed on the correct angle, are snag masters.Open hooked ball jigs are snag masters.There are jig heads that do stand up-BUT-you just have to spend the $ on custom molds to produce them w/ a complete understanding of plastics and wire diameter/weight and length of hooks.. That fact separates reality from conjecture.I'll not enter into a discussion again w/you concerning stand-up jig heads,design and central balance.- we tried that before.

 

BTW-layered,river  ledge rock is the enemy for jigs.. The wider the jig head,the more snags you'll experience-regardless of the hook used.

 

             .I'll refrain from going  into a lengthy discussion detailing the effectiveness of single and dual ,flexible wire guards- concerning hooking ability,balance,durability and snag resistance . I spent 5 years and a tidy sum of $ developing and refining a complete line of reduce snag jigs for all types of bottom environments in rivers and lakes.. That doesn't make me better then anyone,just more experienced and accurate when I state performance facts.

 

Remember- i fish the same rivers you do and so do my customers-which- have the final say.

[smalljaw]

I use a weedguard on all my river jigs and I've found that using a light fiber guard is superior to the wire but you need to know how to set the guard for it to be effective. A simple FG12 fiber weedguard spread out like a fan will do a great job and fishing in those places for 30 years I can honestly say I have a good handle on it. As for the reduced snag jig, well I could have saved you money, i've been modifying the Do-it swimjig mold for people for a long time, in fact I believe someone who I made the mold for showed confidence baits how to do it.  I can tell that we may fish the same places but we have completely different styles of fishing and to tell you the truth, if you have trouble with light football jigs on river ledges then most of your problem is bad boat postion, and while every single jig will snag I think a light weight football or round head with a weedguard fanned out works good enough that you can fish all day and not lose too many, on a good jig bite I'll lose maybe 3 on average with 6 on a bad day and 1 or 2 on a good day. I have used the reduced snag jig (my modified swimjig-confidence baits draggin head)  and yes, I have had days were I didn't lose a single one but I caught a ton of dinks and a few good fish and it was due to the plastic that I had on and that is what I don't like about that type jig, the presentation is limited to a swimming and crawling deal, hopping doesn't work and you have only sparse silicone as you have to either tie it on the hook bend or stich it through the plastic itself, I think I'll stay with what I know best.

[Apdriver]

It all depends on your situation, in my water I'm fishing 90% of the time in water no deeper than 6' so I'm throwing 1/8oz and 3/16oz most of the time unless I'm in strong current then I'll go with 1/4oz but very seldom do I go heavier than that in the river. If you're talking a lake, well that is altogether different, the reason is the rock, in the river you have areas of chunk rock that if you took the water away it would look like rip rap only it is on the bottom. In lakes when I'm dragging a football head over chunk rock the weight I use depends on how deep I'm fishing, 4' to 8' I'm using a 1/4oz, 9' to 12' I'll use a 3/8oz, and up to 15' I'll use a 1/2oz and deeper than 15' I'll use a 3/4oz.

I agree Smalljaw. Depends on depths fished and how slow the bass want the bait moved. I'm fishing rocky lakes not rivers. Depths from a few feet to 30+. 5/16 oz. and 3/8 oz. for me mostly seems about right. Just wondered what others who jig fish a lot of rock were doing. Thanks for the replies.

[smallmouthaholic]

I use a weedguard on all my river jigs and I've found that using a light fiber guard is superior to the wire but you need to know how to set the guard for it to be effective. A simple FG12 fiber weedguard spread out like a fan will do a great job and fishing in those places for 30 years

                   Respectfully- the way to help prevent a snag in a river environment(w/a weed guard) is to prevent the jig from going under the rocks in the 1st place.Take notice that my wire -guarded jigs have the wire positioned almost straight up behind the line tie eye.An FG 12 fiber guard will not do this and they also impede hook sets due to the fact there is nylon fibers in front of the hook.I don't follow the convention wisdom  that many anglers had but now through their new experience w/wire guarded jigs,they can appreciate the performance and excellent hook setting ability. Typical molds cannot be modifies(w/o flashing) for the adaptation of dual wire guards. They take time to make and the flexible wire must not pull out of the jig.

 

                   I fanned out fiber guards for years for fresh water bass jigs. The problem is they don't stayed fanned out plus the more you fan them results in poor snag performance working through submerged wood.There are ledges in the Susquehanna and Juniata that run on a 45 degree angle-the perfect boat position is not feasible. Add wind and current and the recipe for snag city awaits the typical jig angler.

 

                       Saving me money- please! I've had the do-it swim jig mold in my hands and many of their fiber guard jig molds.They may work O.K. for the budget minded angler. That said,I never try to justify a cheap product due to  the reluctance of  spending  the $ to create a better river jig. I don't want a modified Do-it molds w/ all of the flashing that goes w/self modifications.Computer Numerical Control precision molds only for this manufacturer. To each his own-have a good day.

[smalljaw]

I guess you have to do that since you can't operate a boat in the river, some guys just don't know how to work in current and I understand that.

[smallmouthaholic]

I guess you have to do that since you can't operate a boat in the river, some guys just don't know how to work in current and I understand that.

I 've been running a jet -boat in the Susquehanna,Juniata,Delaware and Schuylkill for 17 years.

[smalljaw]

I 've been running a jet -boat in the Susquehanna,Juniata,Delaware and Schuylkill for 17 years.

 

1983 I got my first river boat that had a 9.9 Johnson and 1987 I got my first jet so I think I may have close to 10 years more . I run 3 different size drift socks and use a dual anchoring system to get the boat just right because the susky does have 45 degree ledges which makes it very unique and the Delaware, well the only thing you need to watch there is gravel bars. Why do you insist on being so arrogant? You clearly have a lot of knowledge but everyone here is using do-it molds with the exception of some of us that have custom molds so I understand the wire weedguard concept but it means nothing to someone who needs an opinion on which head to get and how to fish it effectively. You are a manufaturer and make what your customers want and you have the money to do so, great for you but if you want to put you 2 cents in that will help some then plese do so with out being arrogant because you may have more knoweledge than someone else.

[smallmouthaholic]

I gave you the factual truth solely based upon  experience and the creation of  functional,reduced snag jigs and you label it arrogance.-sorry it wasn't sugar coated. The truth usually upsets those who can't handle it. I have never  had a customer request a river jig w/ a fiber weed guard simply because there are better jigs for river fishing.

 

Many young anglers read this board and i have to speak up when people are exaggerating the performance of their stock jig molds in river rock.

 

I turned more Do-it jig molds into flash masters trying to modify them 30 years ago. II is time consuming ,frustrating and gets expensive.Do-it molds are fine for the hobbyist who pours strictly for themselves. and is happy w/ basic performance.

 

Double barbs are necessary to hold plastic trailers firmly in place w/ out the use of additional glue. The ring and single barb collars available today doesn't do the job.

 

Now i'll leave you with a constructive thought-spread you Fg12 fiber guards into two separate bunches making a V. Experiment w/small diameter shrink tubing or other various forms of tubing that will permanently maintain the V shape and render them adjustable..You just may approach the function of dual,flexible wire guards in snag resistance and hook setting performance.

 

Try something new- you may be pleasantly surprised.It would be refreshing to show some gratitude/appreciation for those willing to spend the mega $ required to develop a new concept in river jigs and share them vs. maintaining your adamant stance justifying the use of FG12 fiber guards in a rocky river environment.

[flippinfool]

I fish river smallies all the time in the Susquehanna and Juniata rivers and occasionally the Deleware and I'm going to tell you, you don't want that mold for that. I use either a round head or a football head but I also use the 1/8oz poison tail, out of all of them the football head with a 60 degree flat eye hooks has worked the best for me.

You are correct. The football head with a fiber weed guard is almost impossible to hang up. Of course you must consider line weight, hooks size, weight of head, weed guard angle, amount of skirt material and how it is tied, type of trailer, current, casting angle, action of rod.  Getting hung up is part of the game. Some of my best fish I catch getting it out of the rocks. I've tech talked with smalljaw many a times. He does have a great understanding of what works.

[Darkman]

You two need to keep the CRAP down, no one here cares to know which one of you has the bigger wiener ....you both are right as in your both have different experience in the same river system...to say that one is more right is kinda like "animal farm"...we are both right,im just more right......enough already

[smallmouthaholic]

darkman-

                  You are correct.I'll keep my technical info/experience (crap as you label it) to myself. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

 

                      Have a great day!

[smalljaw]

I'm done here but let me summerize my problem with smallmouthaholic. First, someone asked about using red hooks and he make a derrogatory statement, and yes, "LMAO at red hooks" is a derrogatory statement. I try to help, the OP wanted to know if the hidden eye mold would be a good jighead for the New River and so I let him know what I use and how I fish, I never told him he isn't going to lose any and he already knows this. Smallmouthaholic does what he always does, telling eveyone exactly how you need to go about it, well that is great info but the op isn't talking about a $400 dollar custom CNC mold, he wants to use a $40 dollar do-it mold and Smallmouthaholic knows this but he insist on interjecting to get someone like myself to try an explain so he can then tout how well his stuff works since he is a manufaturer and we are all just "amatures". To that I say YES, we are home tackle makers that use stock do-it molds most of the time and knowing this you still have arrogant remarks. What I did was to infor smallmouthaholic that there are guys like myself who have more experience that him when it comes to fishing, not tacklemaking and fishing like tacklemaking requires improvistion at times but not according to smallmouthaholic. BTW, to all the regulars on rhis site, I apologize for my behavior but I think you should know Mr. Smallmouthaholic was kicked off of 2 other boards for the same thing but trust him, it isn't him it is the rest of us.

[smallmouthaholic]

Smalljaw-

               I tried to end this peacefully-now you state complete mistruths trying to undermine my integrity and honesty. That's really low to stoop to those deceitful levels w/ those untrue statements. I must have struck a few nerves w/ you. It seems like you violated board rules w/you personal attack attempting to undermine my credibility.- shame on you!

 

Red hooks and two color jig heads are completely un-necessary and yes -i did state that. I try to inform young anglers that those two,aforementioned items are a waste of money.

[Tree_Fish]

@ Smalljaw - I have seen you post so many times trying to help people I have no delusions about your intentions. It's people like you that make this site what it is. Regulars can look at these posts and see what's going on, so don't sweat it bro.

 

@ Smallmouthaholic - You are obviously knowledgeable making jigs, maybe try starting off your posts with "In my experience" etc. Jumping right in by telling people they are flat out wrong or being derogatory in everything you say isn't going to get you very far. Fishing isn't the same everywhere and someone else's experiences (although they may be different) shouldn't be discounted based on what works for you. Different things work for different people, to each his own

 

With that being said, you both have valid opinions and that's what makes this site great, input from different people and areas. Hopefully the op will take both your options into consideration and find what works for him instead of being turned off by a catfight. Lets not forget that we were all new to this addiction at one time and it's our duty as tackle makers and fishermen to help the new guys out!