Switching From Lacqur To Water Base?

[Net Man]

I am going to switch to water based paints.  I have been using Lacqur for about 5 years now.  I want to get away from the toxic environmenrt as much as possible.  I have never used water base before.  What do I need to know and what do I need to expect?????

[mark poulson]

Water based paints definately won't get you buzzed. Hahaha

Seriously, I'm sure you'll be "challenged" trying to duplicate lacquer paint schemes with water-based paints.  Lacquers have many more fantastic colors and products.

[EdL]

Definitely worth the health risk reduction by going with water based paints.  If you've mastered petroleum based painting with an airbrush then it seems to me learning to adjust to water based paints, thinning, air pressure adjustments,  should be relatively easy for you than than it would be as a beginner painter.  I would suggest looking at Createx products (created and auto-air water based).  They have colors in opaque and transparent so you can turn out some cool stuff. Not the cheapest but it is good paint and a lot of guys use it.   Also use the  Search box on this forum (and on the internet for lure painting). Lots of info to absorb.  

[woodieb8]

good water based paints are very good. dry time is not too bad. while we still production run lacquers the new Canadian voc compliant laws,have changed lacquers forever.

Edited July 19, 2013 by woodieb8

[bluetickhound]

Createx is great and I use a lot if it but I'm also partial to the Poiytranspar lineup....

http://www.mckenziesp.com/Water-Base-Paints-C3409.aspx

[Net Man]

Can I use laq. with water base?  If I use the superhide white can I spray water base over that or vise versa?

[mark poulson]

Try a test on something to see what works with what.

Lacquer has a strong solvent.  That's what makes it melt into the previous coat of lacquer when you're painting with it.

But it also melts whatever other paint you have under it.  At least, it did with enamels, years ago.

I haven't sprayed lacquer in 20 years.  Back then, we had a rule.  You could spray anything over lacquer, but you couldn't spray lacquer over anything except lacquer.

But todays paints are different, so that's why I said to some testing to find out what works with what.

[Nathan]

Mark,

That old rule is still true as far as what I've found...Nathan

[BobP]

I use water based Polytranspar Superhide white as a color basecoat under acrylic latex paint.  It's the best I've ever found.  If you go with the typical rule, you can put latex over solvent based paint (oil based) but not the other way around.  Maybe that applies also to lacquer based paint, I don't know.

 

Water based paint has been improving over the last decade in color and performance - it's even used now by some car manufacturers to reduce environmental impact.  I think it will be a learning experience, though the lack of lacquer fumes is a very nice feature.

Edited July 22, 2013 by BobP

[Net Man]

Ok so my new water base paint came yeasterday.  I ordered Auto Air colors and reducer.  So I started reading thru the material that came with the paint.  I have also read on the internet about painting with water colors.  So I tried a test bait last night and it was horrible.  The paint would puddle and run.  The information that came with the paint said the mix it with reducer 3:1.  I did but could not spray it because of the thinkness of the paint or my nozzle is to small. 

 

Here are my questions on this:

1) what is a "normal" mix ratio

 

2) What is the normal dry time?  (I read to let the bait air dry before you heat it)  True???

 

I feel like I am starting from square one again.  LOL

 

Thanks

[Salty's]

btw createx is solvent based paint. It's got ethylene glycol in it as a solvent. It's not much more friendly than lac paints to your lungs. Respiratory protection still required...

 

There isn't a "set" reducer rate for createx. You thin it for what you want to shoot. Createx is thin enough to shoot typically out of the bottle. The smaller the line you want though the smaller the tip and the more thinning it needs.

[RayburnGuy]

Hey Salty,

 

Isn't ethylene glycol the same stuff that was used in antifreeze before the formula was changed?

 

Ben

[BobP]

I thin acrylics only if I must, which means I shoot a lot of it right out of the bottle.  I think the thinning suggestions you see are often for shooting art on paper, not painting 3D lure surfaces.  I use mostly a .3mm nozzle at 30 psi, sometimes a .2mm nozzle at pressure down to 12-15 psi for finer work.  I think lacquers usually have much finer pigment grain than acrylics and can be shot at lower psi.

 

Createx, of which Auto Air is a division, says Createx can be thinned as much as 50% with water or another thinner.  I think they recommend their 4011 reducer for Auto Air.  Below 50%, Createx loses its ability to form a film and just beads up on the surface into colored water droplets.  They only way I've been able to thin it to 50% is using a home brew mix of water and "Pledge Tile and Vinyl Floor Finish with Future Shine" (which itself is a clear acrylic paint).  I shoot lots of colors from taxidermy suppliers - Smith Wildlife, Polytranspar, Van Dyke, etc, which typically come pre-thinned and ready to shoot.  Bottom line, all I can say is thin paint when you must, to the extent you must.  There's no reliable formula.

 

I shoot it and immediately dry it gently with a hair dryer, low enough not to push wet paint around on the lure.  When it loses its water gloss, I blast it for a few seconds on high heat.  Createx talks about "curing" the paint - which means heating it up to the 300 degree range so the latex melts into a plastic film and becomes permanent on fabrics, like T-Shirts.  We aren't doing that.  If we did, our plastic lures would explode and you would get expanding air forced through the grain of a wood lure, causing bubbles in the finish.  On lures, acrylic paint is not cured so it's slightly water resistant at best.  The topcoat protects it from water absorption.  If it gets wet, it will expand and push the finish off the lure.

 

Sometimes I think I'd like to switch from acrylics to lacquers!  I know there's a real learning curve whichever way you go but my gut tells me lacquers are probably more consistent in viscosity and the way they are handled, without as many "gotchas" as acrylics.  But once you're down one road, it's hard to go back and switch.

[Salty's]

I believe so. It's used in alot of stuff.

Hey Salty,

 

Isn't ethylene glycol the same stuff that was used in antifreeze before the formula was changed?

 

Ben