RAswimmers Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Hi All, I'm new to TU and was excited to find a place with so much information. I am attempting to design my first Lure (swimbait) and am about 2 weeks into it and have run into a little problem. I'm using a pinned joint system for a nice tight action but the problem I'm having is at join #1 (between the head and mid section) I'm getting a very hard impact at the edge of the joint. This is causing it to have almost a mechanical action not a smooth "s" shaped movement. The second joint moves great no joint impact and has a smooth flow through the water. I'm using a 3-2-2 proportion for the body and am stepping down in weight from the head to tail. Has this happened to anyone out there and if so what was the problem? I've attached some images for reference but they aren't able to show the exact problem, is there a place we can post short video clips? Thanks for hosting such a great site. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 The lure obviously wants to swim wider than you want it to. I suggest you let it by cutting back at the contact points. But, before you cut any material, I suggest that you test it with the hooks fitted. The hooks will make a difference and the problem may well go away. Post your video on YouTube and paste the link here. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 In addition to Dave's advice you might also try different tow eye locations by taping temporary tow eyes onto the lure(but test in a garden pond , bath tub or pool in case of failure of the tape bond). good luck , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Really nice work! How did you do your carving and shaping, especially of those hinges? I found that, the longer the first section is, the more stable it becomes, and the harder the other two sections move. I can't get the head completely still, but I come close enough to get bit. I use a 2/1/1 ratio on my three piece swimbaits, and keep the ballast in the head as much as possible. Back toward the joint in the head, moving forward until I run out of room, and then in the front part of the second section if needed. I never put any in the tail. I find that, by keeping the weight in the front as much as possible and never in the tail, the bait swims level, since the PVC I use is buoyant. Also, since I use screw eye and pin hinges, I adjust the joints so the first joint isn't too loose, but the tail flops side to side. My three piece baits flap line a flag on a fast retrieve. I think that's the nature of three piece baits. A four piece bait swims in an S shape, like a snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAswimmers Posted July 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Thanks Guys, I'm going to try just about everything you have recomended I'm sure the solution is in one of your responses. Mark thanks for your kind words, I'm using a 3d sofware named Rhino with a plugin named T Splines, it allows you to design and model 3d organic shapes. Then I send it to my 3d printer which is great for doing multiple itterations of design in a short period of time. Sorry to say I'm not hand carving, my proffesion lead me to this method of making, I have more experiance using these tools then I do hand carving tools. I've also loaded a video onto YouTube for refference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADtFg19C-cA Thanks Again, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Pete, That bait swims great! Paint it up and go fishing!!! My neighbor has been using those printers for his aerospace company since they first came out. When he told me what they could do I didn't believe him, until he brought home some of the prototypes he made. Amazing! Good for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Here's a "dumb" question from a carpenter. Can you make molds with the same machine, and will that material hold up to 350 degree Fahrenheit plastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAswimmers Posted July 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Thanks Mark, You can make molds but they require some finish work to get out all the striation lines before you would want to use it as a mold. ABS platsic is the most heat tollerant material my printer will handle, it's melting point is around 230 F. Some people have used ABS printed moldes for injection molding but that is a very fast process which doesn't allow for the ABS to absorb enough heat to melt. You can also seal the print in some kind of heat tollerant epoxy or maybe just chill it while your pouring. I guess it all comes down to which process you would want to use. I'll try a couple methodes and let you know how it goes. I'm going to use the printed bait to cast a silicone mold and pour resin into that. Thanks, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Wow I'm not a hard bait guy only soft plastics but you got a winner there for sure, nice work. I would think this process would be great for making sand cast molding if you had a home furnace for smelting aluminum you could have something there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAswimmers Posted July 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Thanks Guy, I tried everything you said and found that it was a number of different thing that needed to change. Moved the weigh in section #1 forward and found a good balance point and moved the tow location to the bottom of the front section. Now off to finish the face detail and build a mold. Thanks Again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QST6INe0rY Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Looking good to me Pete--show us your moulded models when you finish them. Thanks for posting these. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Really swims a bit more smooth now , though I would have been satisfied with the first swimming pattern as well , ......but that's it about luremaking at home , we want them to exactly meet our own standards , demands and imaginations . Glad to hear , that you've manage to solved your problems , ......cheers , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggamefish Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 nice! what is the stuff use to make your lure from the 3d printer? how bouyant is it and how well does it hold up? just curious, first time seeing one made from a printer very cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAswimmers Posted July 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Thanks Everyone for all your help and encouragement. I just poured my fist silicone mold of one printed section as a tester piece because I've never used the materials. Now i'm going to print a mold and pour the resin directly into that with a little mold release and see how that goes. Biggamefish, The material I use is ABS plastic, It's as buoyant as you want because you can control how much the lure is filled, for what I'm doing I use about 30% for testing. The material is strong but not resin strong I'm mostly using the printer to do multiple iterations of the same lure to get it right then i'm going to make a mold of the printed bait or print a mold if that works. This is my first bait so I'm going to do some testing and figure out the best way to incorporate the printer into the design process. Thanks Again, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggamefish Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 cool pete keep us all posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy01007 Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Pete, I am very jealous!! I have been wanting to do this process for some time, but can't get my head around the 3D software. I have 2 swimbaits I want to make on a 3D printer. One is a 4" six segment bait, the other is a 9" six segment bait. I have spent the last year making the 4" out of resin, to see if I could get it to swim right. Just an FYI What I discovered is adding microspheres did not make the bait boyant enough. Instead I made the first 5 segment hollow, and filled them with expanding foam. As far as the molds go, they were tricky and I am still not a good mold maker. I made 2 piece squish molds, and used a quick cure resin. Although I would like to try a slower curing resin n a pressure chamber in the future. Good luck with your project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAswimmers Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hi Sammy, The 3d software is the biggest hurdle I'm using Rhino with T Splines which works well for some things and not so well for other things. If you're really into 3d modeling the baits I would start with these programs, there are a lot of tutorials online as to how these programs work. I'm with you Sammy I'm still trying to figure out the molding process, I tried printing a mold which worked out ok but it's to difficult get the resin to release from the rigid mold. For now I'm printing a master bait and casting a silicone mold around that which I seem to be more successful at. Thanks for the info, I've been wanting to get a vacuum chamber but haven't gotten around to it. Thanks Again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAswimmers Posted August 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Hi TU, I wanted to post an update of the swimbait I've been working on. I've made molds from the 3d print and have cast it in resin and done a first attempt at a paint job. I'm at the point where I need to cast the ballast weight internally during the pour along with all the hook eye's and tow loop, then I need to work on a top coat. I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to how to go about casting the weight during the pour? Thanks for all the advice, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Koo Posted October 1, 2020 Report Share Posted October 1, 2020 Hey man i love your design and i and a big fisherman can u send me the STL file for the swim-bait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Fisher Posted October 1, 2020 Report Share Posted October 1, 2020 The OP has not been on this forum for 6 years... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 1, 2020 Report Share Posted October 1, 2020 A library of CAD models would be nice. Members who have developed CAD models but have no intention of pursuing the business commercially could post their models on the forums and provide the files by email. If enough interest was generated, a separate library could be set up. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
