Aussie Timber Crankbait Help?

[ArdentAngler]

Hi, anyone make aussie crankbaits?

Specifically Halco Poltergeist or Scorpions and maybe a few deception shrimp cranks. I have yet to find a diagram or template for any of these lures.

The biggest question is where to place the ballast?

I intend to assemble them in two pieces with a wire running through the body and out the bib. I have some concerns with cutting the lip slot and the bill alignment.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Here are the lures I intend to make these were from some aussie lure posts

 

[BobP]

Just after you cut out the basic shape, cut the lip slot while the sides are still flat and parallel, before you begin rounding the lure.  Then use a compass to draw a center line down the back and belly (not an issue if you start with 2 pieces of wood but critical if you need to cut the lure in half later).  That locates your hardware and gives you a line for comparing left/right when rounding over the body.  Mark for the position of the belly hanger and ballast.  I use a very slow cure epoxy to mount lips to give me plenty of time to play with the alignment.  Flip the lure over and align by siting down the belly to make sure the line tie aligns with the belly and tail hangers, and an equal amount of lip is seen on both sides of the bait.  You can also use a laser light to check it out.  The critical thing when building is to make sure everything is symmetrical and the hardware is centered.  You can't do that by eyeball with complex curved surfaces, so it's best to measure everything and you can only do that when the lure blank is still "square".

 

As far as ballast position goes, that can be a crap shoot unless you are willing to x-ray or tear apart a commercial specimen.  Lots of wood lures are ballasted with integral belly hangers with the weight molded around the hanger.  You can usually tell this by examining the belly hanger for a tell-tale bump around it.  If there is none, pick up the commercial bait by the belly hook and note how it balances front to rear.  You want your copy to balance the same way and will have to test to see where the ballast needs to be to do that.  If you are not using the same wood as the original, you need to ballast test anyway to get the weight distribution correct.

 

When I build copies, I weigh the commercial bait and work toward that weight when building the copy.  Weigh the shaped and sanded blank, all the hardware including the trebles, add .03 oz for undercoating, paint and topcoat (for typical bass size baits).  Then subtract the total from the weight of the commercial bait to get a required ballast weight.  Needless to say, a little digital scale is almost a must have if you copy baits.

[ArdentAngler]

Lot of good information, unfortunately I do not have any of these lures to play with. I rely on other builders more familiar than I with these models. There isn't much information on the Australian lures, but there are many who build them over there. For these lures the lip slot will be easy to cut since it sits flush with the center. My thoughts were to mark the spot and place it in a vice with the line flush with the edge of the vice then cut my bib slot.

Now the lexan I have is quite thick which will add some weight, but what confuses me is since the bib runs parallel with the middle of the lure should it be weighted so the nose points down? Not many lures have the bill like this so I am not sure how they run or at what depth. My intention is to create a line on the bill and match it up with the centerline of the jointed two halves this should cut out some of the error. As for the wire its a bit tricky, the best way I have seen is to create a jig or template lay the wire over top and then bend it. A groove cut in the bill for the tie off part to run through. I wanted to drill two holes in the bib and feed the wire through that way but it would be a pain to get the body perfect.

 

One of these lures are made of laminated wood and has no weights so maybe the would is weight enough...doubtful but maybe

 

Are there ways for cutting a lip slot so it doesn't leave a big smiley face on the lure?

Is there anyone who has a template for these?

[hazmail]

If you have a 'Nude' of any of these lures you have probably also won a lottery $$$$$.

As you probably know that tow point is called an 'Omega Clip' and is readily available here, or is easily made. IMHO, these big lips (called bib's here) and the 'Omega clip' are just an easy way of adding a tow point, they really don't go any deeper than a conventional lure with a well placed conventional tow point, they also usually 'pin' these bibs to stop 'tear out'- these larger lips do make a lure really shake and vibrate though.

As Bob say's, get a plastic 'copy', weigh and 'suspend balance' it to horizontal with all the hardware attached, you will soon work out where the C.O.G is-- not sure weather they are through wired or just 'screw eyes' but taking into account the fish they are made to catch (Murray Cod) they are probably a one piece wire (some use a hook frame), from the belly-hanger to rear.

N.B

Never made one with this type of tow point.

Pete

Edited August 4, 2013 by hazmail

[mark poulson]

Just a wild guess from looking at the photos, but the only place I see for ballast is in the deep belly of the first lure, like a Rapala DT bait. The other two look too thin for ballast, unless it's some kind of sheet lead like Dieter uses.

If you don't have an original or knockoff for comparison, I'd suggest you make three sacrificial prototypes.  Shape and finish them completely, and see how they sit and swim unweighted.

Then begin adding ballast, either by wrapping lead around the front treble or taping it to the belly, until you get them to swim and dive like you want.

Because I use PVC I can do this easily, skipping the sealing and finishing completely, and float test them totally nude in a bucket of water in my driveway.  With wood, it's really important that you seal and finish the prototypes just like a finished bait, to prevent water intrusion, which will affect the bait's weight and performance and not let you get a true reading on how it needs to be weighted.

Good luck.  Those are some interesting shapes.  The last two should have some wild actions!

Edited August 4, 2013 by mark poulson

[BobP]

Lexan is fairly heavy stuff and using thicker Lexan will bias the balance towards the front, giving it a more nose-down attitude.  Although the lip may be set at 0 degrees horizontal, the lure's attitude as it is retrieved through the water is what determines the lip's attack angle.  That's why front-rear balance and the position of the line tie on the bib is critical.  If you're only working from a photograph, you'll need to experiment more with line tie position and the placement and amount of ballast - and that has to done in water.  With only a pic, you are basically building a brand new lure design except for the body shape.  After the lure is waterproof and all hardware is installed, you can hang ballast around the belly hook, use adhesive lead strips, or position temp pins in various locations to hold your test ballast weight(s).  Then swim it and modify ballast until it does what you need it to do.

[ArdentAngler]

I have read up on these never heard the term "Omega Clip" new to me. Is that the flat metal tow point used instead of a wire? I am familiar with pinning, its makes more sense.Yeah the nude versions of any of these lures are big$$$$!

I would love to share some pics of the Deception shrimp lures. The poltergeist lure "first one" has been made out of laminated wood, and it is gorgeous!

I have some pictures of a side profile scaled down, thought this should make installing the tow point position easy. If it doesn't work it's back to the drawing board. The Deception Shrimp "nude lure" does have a nice action, I have a similar lure from Bass Pro Shop called a xts mini dad that has a tight action! Ironically it's a knockoff of a aussie lure called a Raw Prawn made by Smilin Jack unfortunately it doesn't come in different sizes.

Just getting one of these lures from Australia would set me back $50 easy the shipping is costly.

Heard of this PVC guessing you can get it at Lowe's?

[mark poulson]

Yes, Lowe's carries some, and so does Home Depot.  The brand I use is AZEK, and their trim board is the most buoyant of all their stuff.

[hazmail]

"Hi, anyone make aussie crankbaits?

Specifically Halco Poltergeist or Scorpions and maybe a few deception shrimp cranks. I have yet to find a diagram or template for any of these lures.

The biggest question is where to place the ballast?

I intend to assemble them in two pieces with a wire running through the body and out the bib. I have some concerns with cutting the lip slot and the bill alignment.

Any suggestions?"

Ardent_ I hope this is not breaking any rules, but here are some links to a site with a lot of guff about these brands, maybe ask and someone will give you the info you are after, a lot of guys copy them. There are a lot of 'makers' & 'collectors' on this site that can tell you all about any lure you want to mention ***.

"Deception Lures"-- http://www.lurelovers.com/forum/deception-lures_forum39.html

Some different colours here- http://www.lurelovers.com/forum/deception-catalogue-colours_topic4150_page1.html

For Poltergeist which has changed hands a few times, try searching "Halco Poltergeist" , or "RMG Poltergeist".

Also see here: ------- http://www.lurelovers.com/forum/rmg_forum45_page1.html

Pete

[ArdentAngler]

Thanks Pete,

The first site is where I found all of these lures, it opened my eyes to lure possibilities! I tried to make an account there but the page would never load?...maybe you have to be Australian haha. I will attempt to give those sites another try, my biggest problem is lack of power tools. I struggled to go through poplar with my coping saw, I need to work with thinner pieces or something.

My plan is to get wood 1/2 inch thick and hot glue them together and shape them with a wood carving knife, unless I could find someone to cut them out on a band saw for me. Then I plan to score the Lexan breaking it off into a long bar, and score that breaking off manageable bill size pieces which may be filed down to shape. As for the wire shaping is easy my problem is finding a good enough template for all of these to work, maybe someone on here could offer their services and whip up a template. If not I will freehand it and hope to get lucky!

The only person I know who has made similar lures is Diemai he is a wizard! I am surprised he hasn't chimed yet.

 

Before I forget anyone tried using exotic woods for their crankbaits? That's my next goal after perfecting these shapes it would be nice to have a few nudes in cocobolo or a nice cherry burl. Not sure whether to fish them or place them on display, I think I would do both!

 

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions!

[Vodkaman]

I am pretty sure that lexan will not score and snap like you are expecting it to, at least the polycarbonate that I have won't.

 

I understand your lack of power tools, believe me, I have been there. But, you have to be sure you are going to continue with this before splashing out.

 

Perhaps a Dremel drill might be a good investment at this stage. It will serve many purposes, hole drilling, shaping, cutting etc. Without breaking the bank (too much).

 

Dave

[mark poulson]

Be careful using exotic woods.  Many have sawdust that is irritating for the lungs, eyes, and skin.  Check online about the properties of any wood you want to shape, so you don't find out the hard way.

A dust mask and good ventilation is a minimum safety requirement, but there are exotic woods that need more care than that.

[diemai]

Hi there ,

 

It's me , the wizard   !

 

Just came across right now , otherwise I would have chimed in earlier !

 

Looks like the Aussie lure style has gotten another fan outside of the fifth continent  . 

 

I'm located in Germany , and since I came across these often unusual Australian lure patterns(at least for Americans and Europeans) , I've started to make my own versions , ......just to try them on local European species .

 

I've found , that the lures meant for  Australian species like yella(yellowbelly perch) and cod are pretty much suited for European perch , ......roughly these are the ones with more or less curved bodies and big deep diving lips .

 

Some of the(commercial) Aussie deep divers are stated at 35 feet+ running depth !

 

Australian barra(barramundi) lures come a bit closer in shape to what non-Australian anglers are used to , .....they have a bit of a more elongated and straight body with a forward pointing lip or a lip underneath the chin , ........these are well-suited for European pike .

 

I've first come across these lures on http://www.lureandmore.com/ , another Australian lure site , ..........they've also got a "homemade" section in there , where you might find some more valuable info on Aussie lure design and construction .

 

I also own at least two of the lure models displayed on your pictures , ...first one is a "Poltergeist" and third one is a "Deception" , ...not so sure about the center one .

 

I guess , that many Australian lure carvers are not going thru-wired with their lures , though some would surely do as well , .......but utilize glued-in so called twisted wire eyes  and secure the lips with crosswise pins , as the omega clip line tie is attached to the lip of lexan or aluminium sheet solely .

 

But thru-wire is also not a problem , ..I've tried both methods , though I'm assembling screw eyes , no twisted wire eyes .

 

As far as for the ballast , .......due to the oversized deep diving lips the lures tend to swim head down at rest , ..not a problem though , as this enhances their diving performance , .......BUT , ...the casting distance is very poor this way , as the lip offers a lot of resistance in the air , especially when the lure gets to tumble on flight .

 

But some ballast in the rear belly portion of the lure Body often works wonders , ....will let the lure sit about horizontal at rest , ...stabilize it's wiggle , and , ...most important IMO , will drastically enhance the casting performance , as the lure darts away tail first , the big lip even acting as some kinda rudder or airfoil stabilizing it's flight  , .........to me , a little decrease of diving depth is gladly accepted this way .

 

Due to the big lips guarding the belly hook these lures obviously do not snag up as much as other styles do , ...and often their wiggle and the throb in the rod tip on retrieve are second to none !

 

 

 

Regarding exotic timbers , ........you have to make your choice of material carefully , ......take into consideration , that you might not want to paint those lures at all , clearcoat only , as you might not want to waste the beautiful looks of a special woodgrain or so ?

 

OK , .......no painting , no ballast as well , .....as you also do not want any ugly ballast holes disturbing the looks of the beautiful timber , too  , ...still the lure has to be somewhat balanced and not sit too high or too low at rest , .......a lure of a less buoyant timber is more likely to tip over and blow out and one of a more buoyant timber might not go down sufficiently .

 

So you have to be very planful about the lure style shape and materials , ........check out the one pictured as from 00:30 of the video , this lure is based on a Australian design as well(from a book picture of a "Kadaitcha" , not an accurate copy , though , ..but swims great) , .......the voluminous front portion carries the big aluminium lip still letting the lure swim level at rest , ....the pinned metal lip(only two tiny pin holes inside of the lure blank) also acts as some kinda ballast , though .

 

 

The lure is unweighted , hookhangers are screw eyes , .......handcarved from American red cedar , swims and casts very nice and digs down to at least 18 feet .

 

I'm not claiming that I had planned for this "Nudie"(Aussie term for unpainted timber lure)to turn out that perfect in it's action , but I had put some thought into it before getting my carving knives out .

 

                                                Cheers , diemai

[mark poulson]

They all look good.      

[ArdentAngler]

I was wondering when you were gonna hop on this one? Anyway I though about a center or further rear ballast to compensate and I also thought about a front one just wish I could test them. Curious to see how some lures do without weight and you hit the nail on the head with the casting bit. They may function adequately on the water but how will they reach the water? So a bit of extra weight for casting doesn't hurt.

Personally I wish to take a different approach and make mine through wired, most craftsman in Australia like the twisted eyehangers. I am familiar with all the lures just not all the names, for example Peter Newell's lures are made by other companies and go by names such as pakrats. The middle lure might be a pakrat cannot remember, if I recall pakrats are like scorpions except square not rounded.

 

So the real question is how do I make this deep diver run shallow? Trying to run these at 3-5 feet. If I alter the distance of the tow point it will mess with the wobble so how to compensate for this? Changing the lip angle on these lures would be a pain and not to mention look funny. If my mind serves me right Lexan can be bent at room temperature? All holding true does it hold it's shape or would the stress from the the tow point/fish cause it to warp?

 

Exotic timber were intended for nudes and my own private stash. At the most painted eyes but that's it, defeats the purpose of fancy wood.As for Exotic lumber I have heard they are deleterious when airborne before, but it's nice you guys give reminders:) Some are unaware of this and that Lexan is harmful too!

 

I will have to check and see if I can score the Lexan. I picked the trick up from Paul Adams, but he may have been using thinner Lexan Picked up a sheet from Lowe's for $4 its .093 looks thick.

 

Before I forget I do have a Dremel which isn't a apartment friendly tool...Sound and mess wouldn't be sound logic.

 

Diemai have you seen the Legohead lures? they are right up your alley with those PVC models.

Hope I got to everyone's input here

[diemai]

@ mark poulson

 

Thanks , Mark

 

 

@ ArdentAngler

 

Hhmm , .......the big lips and shallow diving does not go together , ....but , ..there is a little chance , .....make the bodies as curved as possible and as voluminous as possible to retain as much buoancy as possible , of course out of a very buoyant material , too , ...use lexan , not aluminium for the lip .

 

Also do not taper the front and rear end too much to keep body voluminous , thus buoyant , .......the lip can be plane , pointing forward and also a bit larger(not a real big deep diving lip , though) , with the line tie on the lip .

 

The curved lurebody would still wiggle like hell , and because of the the high buoancy such lure won't dig too deep , ...also strongly curved lurebodies with a strong wobble do not dive that deep by nature , unless equipped with a supersized lip .

 

I have something like this in mind :

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/9719-aussie-style-and-bug/

 

(top lure but with a bit smaller lexan lip)

 

......or like the bottom one in here , off course also with a smaller lexan lip and probably a bit wider in cross section :

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/9722-striped-aussies/

 

The only way to go shallow with this kind of lures in my opinion , .....or try making banana lures with integrated diving planes , ..these also do wiggle strongly , but don't dive as deep by nature .

 

...and yes , I have come across these LegoHeads before on Youtube , ..another significant design from Down Under !

 

                       Cheers , Dieter

[ArdentAngler]

So it isn't as easy as shortening the bill? I have some balsa which would make it buoyant but then there would be the casting issue. Could try playing around with some bibs maybe a shorter round bib like on rebel crawfish. I'm no expert but if I moved the tow point towards the front of the bill away from the lure it would run shallower, this would cause the lure to be too unstable?

 

thanks

[Vodkaman]

In my early days of TU, I too was living in apartments. To get around the mess thing, I bought a battery dremel. Not as powerful as the mains version, but it solved my problem by allowing me to go outside to do the shaping. Also it allowed me to make adjustments at the water's edge.

 

As for the shallow running, yes, you could shorten the lip and move the tow eye forward and it would swim shallow. BUT, the whole point of this lure is the nose down heavy throbbing action caused by the large broadside of lure being pulled against the water and this would be lost. I don't think you can have both.

 

Having said that, you can get the lure to run shallower by moving the tow eye further back. This would make the lure swim closer to vertical. The throbbing action would increase and the lure would lose its diving ability. It might look a bit strange, but it is all about the vibrations in my opinion. Whether you could get it to run without blowing out is a big question - you will have to build one to find that answer.

 

I have built a couple of prototypes with big lips that swam in this vertical style. They didn't blow out and the action was so strong, I swear I could actually hear it. Not so sure I would want to pull one of those through the water for 8 hours, but could be worth experimenting with.

 

Dave

[ArdentAngler]

I haven't touched my dremel in years a battery powered one couldn't hurt but there are no places you could work on a lure without causing a disturbance. A carving knife and a sanding block should suffice, it would give my lures a more personal feel. I used a pizza box to catch the shavings and sawdust...not all the sawdust stayed in the box.

I guess I could try and build the poltergeist leaving it a deep runner, bit of a shame though I would have like it as a shallow diver. A round bill would give it a decent wobble, I have a Rebel Wee craw bill I could trace and utilize. Not sure about other woods but with balsa I could stick the bill and lure in a vice so the bill has a groove to sit in.

 

Moving on any thought on adding a weight in the "foot" of the nude Deception lure? Maybe give it some extra distance when casting.

It would be fatiguing running those lures all day but that's part of fishing!

[Trout Tramp]

Hello everyone i'm only new to TU and been spending a bit of time in the soft plastic section<br />But I do have a crack at making hard body lures every now and then they aren't to flash but<br />I was just wondering if you was making them as a two piece or even slicing and glueing them couldn't you Run a channel up the centre and run a ball bearing system so that when you cast it gives weight at the rear of the bait and then once you commence the retrieve it runs to the front of the lure similar to a rattle chamber obviously this would only work for the painted lures as for the nudes you could maybe try either drilling a hole place your weight in then making a dowell plug out of the same material at least it wouldn't stand out as much as back filling with epoxy or go the whole hog and get polished weight's stainless ball's/gold ect and have them as a feature nude timbers and polished metal look good together<br />As I say i'm only new to this and just thinking out loud so to speak<br />Cheers<br />Trout tramp<br />Paul

[ArdentAngler]

I don't know if that would work on such a short lure? I have considered it though, for example I thought it would be effective if I made a chamber and added birdshot on the deception shrimp. What has been a goal of mine was create dozens of the same lure all with different aspects; short bill, long bill where the tow point is placed and the ballast etc. It would be interesting to see how many different combinations one could come up with...let alone paint jobs!!! I try and keep notes of everything I come across, couldn't tell you how many pictures and sites I have saved on my quest to be a lure craftsman.

 

In the end its not just the lure but the fisherman and the fish.

[diemai]

So it isn't as easy as shortening the bill? I have some balsa which would make it buoyant but then there would be the casting issue. Could try playing around with some bibs maybe a shorter round bib like on rebel crawfish. I'm no expert but if I moved the tow point towards the front of the bill away from the lure it would run shallower, this would cause the lure to be too unstable?

 

thanks

...........Yes , the lure would swim more unstable and the frequency of the wiggle would decrease drastically , if you move the tow eye closer to the tip of the lip , .......just try taping a small kinda omega clip to the tip of the lip temporary and see what it does(within your reach , in case the tape bond fails) .

 

 

These lures like "Poltergeist", "Deceptions", etc. were designed to run deeper than your requested 3-5 feet , ...and I don't really think , it would be possible to render their own special design to swim shallow  still retaining their vigorous wobble , .......better try designing something entirely new , I'd say .

 

If you want both , shallow running AND strong wobble causing a throbbing rodtip , I would advise you to stick to banana lures like these , .....they have a similar wobbling action to the deep diving Aussies , but swim a lot shallower with their integrated diving plane :

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2547-banana-baits/

 

@ Trout Tramp

 

Thanks for chiming in , ...and welcome to TU   , .......this would not be TU , if some of the members , including myself , would not have already carried out experiments with shifting casting weights , ..there are threads about it somewhere in here  .

 

But in my opinion such won't be neccessary on Australian style deep divers , simply because the bib lip provides weight to the front causing the lure to swim head down at rest , .....counterbalanced with ballast in the rear the lure swims level at rest with the secondary effect of an enhanced casting performance , as the rear weight pulls the lure to fly tail first and the bib acting as an airfoil or guiding rudder .

 

Off course the material would have to be sufficiently buoyant to carry lip , ballast and hardware , ....in my opinion just a very ingenious lure design from DownUnder .

 

Such shifting weights providing an enhanced casting performance would rather be more practical to lures with a slender and elongated straight body .

 

                         Cheers , diemai

[mark poulson]

Deiter,

In my limited experience, when I've move ballast to the rear of a crankbait to aid in casting, it dampens the side-to-side wobble.

What am I doing wrong?

[diemai]

Deiter,

In my limited experience, when I've move ballast to the rear of a crankbait to aid in casting, it dampens the side-to-side wobble.

What am I doing wrong?

Quite logical to me , Mark , definately experienced the same before , .........a rear weight has to be shifted around left and right by the force generated by the water pressure on the lip , thus the wobble becomes less pronounced  compared to an unweighted lure or with a lure having belly ballast near the belly hook hanger .

 

The rear ballast just sits on an imaginary longer lever arm with it's base at the lip , thus the weight is more difficult to move  as if it was located somewhere nearer to the lip. 

 

BUT , ......this would count for straight-bodied minnow baits with a more or less smaller lip , ........these Aussie lures with their big lips and curved bodies have a lot more of a wobbling action already built in , .....first because of the big lip , ...and second , also because of their curved bodies .

 

So they still generate enough force or power to move added rear ballast around at a reasonable frequency , .....certainly a rear weight would dampen their wobble as well , but this is not as significant and obvious , simply because their wobble is just vigorous right from the start .

 

Vice versa , ......to retain the wobble on a straight minnow bait with tail ballast , you would have to make the lip's plane larger in order to generate more force to overcome the indolence of the rear ballast , ....BUT , ...a bigger lip also means more air resistance on the cast and might render the rear ballast  less effective as a casting aid , .....sorry , but it seems like a dog biting it's own tail   !

 

Just my  , Mark , .........greetz , Dieter

[mark poulson]

Makes sense.  Thanks.