Gst International Lacquer Based Concrete Sealer As A Topcoat

[A-Mac]

Ok Boys, I got some Eagle supreme for 19 dollars at home depot it came from another store as a return, So I am gonna give it a shot and see just how good it works.

So far so good with this stuff.  BUT, I haven't been making very many lures the last few months either.  This PITA called a thesis has infected all of my awaken hours.  The lures I have used still look great w/ 4 coats.  2 coats still looks nice, but 4 is beautiful.  Just don't be in a hurry.  I suggest 1 coat per day.  I had a lure that was sticky for about a month, but I presume this was because I didn't let the paint cure.  Once the lure was no longer sticky, I applied 3 more coats and everything seems fine.

[Cougarftd]

I put out about a dozen baits to others...all with 3 coats...all were allowed to dry several weeks. There were no complaints and the baits have all held up to extreme use. If you are not in a rush this seems to be a good option.

[joliepa]

Well I can now confirm that my local walmart's brand of concrete sealants will NOT work.

ClearKrete Gloss Sealer is water based and resists "moisture" but is not waterproof.

It sounds like we can make no sweeping statements about the suitability of concrete sealers. Some seem to be more like the typical polyurethane used on woods. Yellowing and not particularly water proof. and some seem to work.

I vow to use spar urethane until I find money and availability to something better and I really Don't want the expense of buying something that will have exorbitant shipping fees. But unfortunately, spar urethane treated stuff turns yellow at the drop of a hat and needs very,very little UV exposure before the whites go a little "off".

If I can't get Eagle supreme ( I don't think I can), I'm going to talk to the sherwin williams paint store. I think THEY might have a concrete sealer that would work. H&G is their brand.

Edited November 12, 2013 by joliepa

[nedyarb]

Just a tip on storage, I pour it into ball canning jars. I then spray adhesive glue onto the inside of the lid and place some aluminum foil inside. The gst will eat away the rubber sealer on the lids, and it falls into the gst, if it is not protected.

[mark poulson]

which brand? I was getting some wrinkles with the gst, but I found out I was not heating up the paint long enough!

I agree with nedyarb.  Weak paint can't take the pull of curing/shrinking top coats.

Having your paint really dry is important with any top coat, but seems to be especially important with any kind of top coat that is designed as a protective, penetrating film for concrete.

The thing that makes these products strong enough for traffic is their long chain molecules that are formed as they cure.  Those molecules link and bond, but they also pull on each other (shrink) as they cure.  That's what gives them film strength, like a tight drum head, but it also puts a lot of strain on whatever it's applied over.  Concrete is strong and rigid, so there's no problem.  Dry paint is okay, but paint that isn't completely dry isn't strong enough to withstand the forces of the film as it cures, so you get the same thing as a crackle paint method.  

Take the time to fully dry/cure your paint before you top coat it.

[21xdc]

My paint was completely dry, for days... It still crackled my paint...

[barr5150]

My paint was completely dry, for days... It still crackled my paint...

I have done around 50 lures now with GST, usually around a dozen at a time. Almost each round I've had 1 wrinkle on me and I'm wondering if there is a difference between a dry lure and a "heat set" dry lure. I use createx paint and I guess what I'm thinking is even if the lure sits a few days before the clear but you didn't heat set it, is it really dry? As of right now it's all I can come up with.

[Cougarftd]

I heat set all of mine...have not had a problem with wrinkles

[mark poulson]

The blessing of a very strong film strength, the holy grail for top coats, can be a curse unless you know how to protect your paint schemes against crackling.

From what I've read here, we never really reach the temperatures that convert Createx, and other iron-set T shirt paints, from their initial state to washing machine-proof, totally heat set.  The change in the molecules requires higher heat than a hair dryer typically can produce.

But I do find that using a hair dryer to "heat set" each coat of paint before applying the next does insure that each coat is truly dry, unless I put it on too thick.  And that's important.  Trapped moisture means your paint stays soft.

As far as your top coat still crackling your paint after it's been thoroughly heat set, let me share my experience with a water borne urethane top coat that I still use from time to time.

The company makes a super clear for interior use, and a formulation for exterior use that is more matte.  The exterior also a much stronger film strength.

When I apply the exterior finish to my Createx paint directly, I get crackling.  Even if the paint is really well cured, there is still a slight crackling, because the film really adheres well to the paint, and, as it dries and shrinks, it's strong enough to make the dry paint pull apart a little and crackle slightly.

The super clear interior finish, which I use for a lot of cranks and swimbaits, doesn't cause any crackling.

So when I'm going to use the exterior matte, typically for salt water lures, I first dip one time in the super clear interior finish, to give the paint a protective coating, and then do two more dips in the exterior finish.

You might try spraying a coat of Creates gloss clear over your baits before you dip them.  Gloss equals film strength in paints, so maybe the gloss clear coat will reinforce your paint enough to prevent crackling.

[PondBoss]

Wow I just read every post in this thread. Looks like I'm headed to Lowes tomorrow to pick up some Eagle Supreme and say good bye to Garco MCU. Though the MCU will cure in cold temperatures. Maybe it will be a seasonal option.

[PondBoss]

Have your lips been holding up with the Eagle? My lips were pealing from crashing into rocks all day using MCU.

Thanks, PondBoss

Edited November 17, 2013 by PondBoss

[joliepa]

if you can get Eagle brand from Lowes, You have a special store.

 

In more Lowes, the concrete sealers are clearly water based and not going to work.   Instead, eagle brand is available at home depot.  I don't think all home depots have eagle supreme.

 

... in many places across the country then.  I think you'll have to pay extra for what you want.  

[PondBoss]

My bad Home Depot is what I meant. Hopefully they will have what I want. I will pay the extra if need be. It's still way less than MCU plus all the Bloxygen that is needed to keep it liquid.

[RayburnGuy]

I'm wondering why you would make a blanket statement about water based sealers saying they are not going to work? Before Mark started using Solarez his top coat was water based and he was clearly pleased with it's performance. Unless you have concrete evidence showing water based top coats won't work in any type of application, or set of circumstances, then what you have is an opinion. Not proof.

 

Ben

Edited November 17, 2013 by RayburnGuy

[gone2long]

Just curious about MCU, if you stored it on its lid does it still have issues with curing/skinning over in the bottle?

[RayburnGuy]

Just curious about MCU, if you stored it on its lid does it still have issues with curing/skinning over in the bottle?

 

The only way I've heard of storing MCU with no waste is to use the "tap the can method". There have been many posts about how to do this so a quick search should tell you all you need to know.

 

Just remember that the "tap the can" method is not conducive to dipping baits.

 

Ben

[PondBoss]

I almost got some BEHR concrete sealer since I have to order the Eagle to the store, but decided I'd wait on the Eagle.

[PondBoss]

For those that have used the Eagle brand is this the right stuff?

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Eagle-1-gal-Clear-Wet-Look-Solvent-Based-Acrylic-Concrete-Paver-Sealer/203530969/?MERCH=REC-_-mobileweb_nrf_rr-1-_-NA-_-203530969-_-N

Thanks,

PondBoss

[Nathan]

Pondboss,

That is the one I tried and is not the correct one ..You want eagle Supreme..That is the one A-Mac is using and I think is the similar product that they are getting at Menards (Gst International )...Nathan

[goolies]

If you put your lips in with Devcon 2Ton make sure the epoxy is totally cured before dipping into GST.  I dipped a few baits into GST about 4 hours after the lips were applied and the GST penetrated the lip slot and softened the epoxy.

[begs]

ok guys, I am going to pick some of the gst this weekend, would it hurt to turn it at all? also I will be doing the gst treatment on ice jigs after a powdercoat finish, and a paint finish as well 

[Mad Moose Baits]

ok guys, I am going to pick some of the gst this weekend, would it hurt to turn it at all? also I will be doing the gst treatment on ice jigs after a powdercoat finish, and a paint finish as well 

It goes on thin . I dip mine, bill and all and then hang with a small wire hung on the back hook hanger to drain the drips.

[mark poulson]

It goes on thin . I dip mine, bill and all and then hang with a small wire hung on the back hook hanger to drain the drips.

 

How long between dips if you dip more than once?

[barr5150]

How long between dips if you dip more than once?

 

I have been doing 3 coats around 24hrs apart. I basically dip them when I get home from work each day. In previous posts some people have re-dipped them in just a couple hours without a problem. I'm just not in that big of a hurry. I dip them and then work on something else if I have time.

 

One thing I found with this stuff...if you take a minute after you dip the lure to touch the bottom of the bait on a paper tower a few times to absorb the drips your not left with a big blob on the hook hanger or the tail of the bait. IMO it saves a bunch of time when your throwing the hooks and split rings on. Even running a toothpick through the hook hanger hole a couple times helps. If you've used this stuff you already know that after you dip a bait the run-off is very minimal anyway. Even with the second and third coat you only get a few drips and that's it. It's almost like the coat your applying melts into the previous coat.

 

Bryan

[rhersh]

It goes on thin . I dip mine, bill and all and then hang with a small wire hung on the back hook hanger to drain the drips.

I was woundering if you get any build up on the bills when you hang them this way. I hang mine from the line tie and seem to get a little on the bottom.

 

Mark! I dip mine 4 times and redip as soon as it is semi dry to the touch or even sooner at times.

Also I give it 2 good coats of the createx clear before I dip the first time, and found out last night that it makes a world of difference eating into the paint and sharpie marker when I dropped it in the jar of gst and could not get ahold of it for about 30 sec's to get it back out. It did not run the paint or marker at all, to my surprise.

To be honest since it is lacquer based I don't feel drying time matters to much as long as it is semi dry, which has been my experince with lacquer paint. Just my thoughts not in stone for me. Good luck.

Royce