smallmouthaholic Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 I gave out plenty of free samples for almost 2 years.The gimme,gimme crowd is 95% cheap and 5% reaspectful that will eventually buy your baits.i gave out plenty of baits when I fished tournaments from '89-'91- including the Red Man circut. A stone cold,waste of time,effort and money i get e-mails all the time from tournament teenagers to Pro-wanabees wanting me to sponsor them. One line that stands out from the rest is and appears in all of the e-mails is-"I love your baits" My reply,"if you love them so much then why isn't your name on my customer data base?" I only give limited soft-bait samples w/ orders- it has paid huge dividends w/ loyal customers who truly appreciate the samples. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Again I ask this question to anyone that sells baits now or has sold baits in the past, did anybody start out by not giving away baits? Whether you felt like it was profitable or not. I have never met anyone that manufactors and sells plastic baits that did not start out by giving free baits and have never heard of anyone. Whether you like it or not it is the way that everybody starts out. Considering we are giving advice to a 15 year old young man, I think its important we all be truthful about this subject. You may not feel that you profited from it but everyone has to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Again I ask this question to anyone that sells baits now or has sold baits in the past, did anybody start out by not giving away baits? Whether you felt like it was profitable or not. I have never met anyone that manufactors and sells plastic baits that did not start out by giving free baits and have never heard of anyone. Whether you like it or not it is the way that everybody starts out. Considering we are giving advice to a 15 year old young man, I think its important we all be truthful about this subject. You may not feel that you profited from it but everyone has to start somewhere. Respectfully Mike, My advise to the 15 years old is to apply yourself in school and study if college is not in your future/affordable, then learn a trade/profession- Electrician,HVAC,Insurance. Learn and study your preferred trade and learn it well. Once you're established and making a good living,then dabble in lure making as a hobby. The money you'll spend on education learning a trade will result in a good income and will far surpass the small income and aggrevation from a lure manufracturing business.You'll be hard pressed to even begin supporting a family w/ all asssociated expenses from a small,lure manufacturing business. There is a fine line between producing quality vs. quanity and the fixed expenses of a legitimate ,small manufacturing business accumulate quickly during which time,sustainable profit is basically non-existent.Re-investing the profits for 5-7 years may lead to your success but there are ceratinly no guarantees in the business world- especially the cutthroat tackle business. You'll need a main source of sustainable income to have the extra $ to invest and develop your own tackle business. It's healthy to dream but please understand ,reality and the lack of financial capital can quickly ruin one's self-employed business dreams. You may wish to consider taking an evening course in small business to fully understand the intricacies of starting and sustaining a small business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) At the very least you need to learn how to recognize the guy who stays well away from you until he hears you are giving away free baits, and then comes running over to see what he can get. Somehow these tournament anglers think they deserve a bunch of free baitsI Free baits usually end up in the bottom of their tackle box unless they read about them in FLW and/or Bassmaster. since most of them are followers. Give them one or two baits then offer them a discount to purchase more. Most of the time they come down w/ a severe case of the "broken arm syndrome" reaching for their wallet. Edited for additional content Edited August 19, 2013 by smallmouthaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Smallmouth, by reading the first post of this thread I don't see any indication that this young man is not considering his education and I think its absolutley great to consider a small part-time bait business. I dont think a 15 year old really needs to worry about supporting a family. I'm sure with the way that the emphasis is put on education in the school systems today that he understands the importance of a good education. I think a part time bait business would be a great educational expirience, especially if this young man has a love for fishing. Its a very competitive market, you must develop accounting skills, you must learn to fill out quarterly taxes, communication is a must, you must have marketing skills. All of these are valuable things for a person to be educated in no matter what the career move. I see no where in the young man's post that would lead me to believe that this is a career move, if he has alot of friends that fish or he lives in a community that has alot of fishing around it, why not a small bait business to earn a little extra money and develop his skills? I imagine his parents are still his main source of suitible income, we are talking about a kid here, not an adult trying to make alot of money, a kid that probably enjoys fishing and thinks it would be neat to make some baits and sell them. Why are so many people being so discouraging to him? This is another one of those threads that are going south fast. The kid is asking for help. I have noticed that you or anyone else will not right out admit to this young man that you started out by giving baits away, whether it was profitable for anyone or not, it is the way that everyone starts out. After all, how many people on here actually do nothing else for a living but make baits besides me? We need to encourage our young folks in more hobbies like bait making and fishing, lets keep them on the water and off of the streets. If mom and dad are helping to foot the bill then most likley they will help keep an eye on the money too. There is nothing wrong with having fun doing something you enjoy and there is nothing wrong with being young, making a few mistakes, and learning in the process. So texasfisherman, don't let anyone discourage you, be careful with your money, enjoy what you do, your teenage years are a great time for learning and making mistakes. You will always be learning for the rest of your life but you can always avoid the mistakes you made when you were young after you are grown. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I have noticed that you or anyone else will not right out admit to this young man that you started out by giving baits away, whether it was profitable for anyone or not, it is the way that everyone starts out. After all, how many people on here actually do nothing else for a living but make baits besides me? Your statement is absolutly incorrect. Go back and re-read my post #27. you missed the 1st sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I was responding to a post that was specifically directed to me, and I did not miss your starting sentence nor did I miss the sentence that ended your statement. I think being encouraging is what our young people need these days, there is enough in this world to discourage them already. For most people on here that manufactor, its not really about the money its more about doing something that you love and enjoy and since we are giving advice to teenager why not approach it from a positive aspect? If he makes baits for any amount of time he will find out all about the negative aspects of having your own business and at his age learning is what its all about. Trial and error is the best teacher of all. A stone cold,waste of time,effort and money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 The complete reference to the statement you quoted is- "i gave out plenty of baits when I fished tournaments from '89-'91-including the Red Man circut. A stone cold,waste of time,effort andmoney" There were other circuts where I gave out dozens of spinner baits and jigs over a 2 year period.. I don't speak w/out the data and experience to back it up. Again- a stone cold,waste of time ,money and effort I currently provide samples w/ orders only. My business model works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I gave out plenty of free samples for almost 2 years.The gimme,gimme crowd is 95% cheap and 5% reaspectful that will eventually buy your baits.i gave out plenty of baits when I fished tournaments from '89-'91- including the Red Man circut. A stone cold,waste of time,effort and money This is the complete reference to the statement I quoted, and this statement makes it sound like that giving samples is a total waste of time and it is not especially when its the standard way everyone starts their bait business. Maybe you meant that fishing tournaments was a complete waste of time but thats not how the statement started. I fished 2 bass clubs for 18 years so that was atleast 2 tournaments a month and that dosen't take into consideration all the pickup tournaments on the side, and when I first started making baits I gave away 10 gallons of plastic before I ever sold the first product. That 5% you speak of can be alot of people and I imagine that you are correct that only 5% of the people actually bought baits. But that 5% of people also was the best advertisement I have ever had, I can accredit that 5% for putting product that I made in alomst every major fishing magazine in the country, such as bassmasters, bassin times, FLW, North American fisherman, and several others. The products we make appeared in several television shows such as FLW and bassmaster's. We have also appeared on several websites such as the last 2 named and also wired to fish. If I would have followed some of the advice given in this thread the dream that I had of owning my own bait business would've never happened. It was certainly very very hard work to get where I'm at and it was 10 years of struggling and learning when there were no informational sites like TU to be had. By far one certain plan doesn't work for everyone and we still have good days and bad days but I still to this day have to give free samples away, especially for color references. If I'm not willing to do this then I would've missed alot of new customers. No not everyone that I give my samples to use my services but hey, thats part of the business and its things like this that a 15 year old with a love for fishing needs to learn. I'm sorry I'm just not a dream killer and learning is the biggest part of growing up, of course mistakes are going to be made but sometimes these mistakes can be the best learning tools and one person's plan does not work for everybody. I think its important that we all be honest and say it didn't work for me but this is the way everyone starts out. Afterall, out of all the people that are saying "don't start out like everyone else"who is actually do it for a living? Edited August 20, 2013 by carolinamike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Bob considering that this about giving advice to 15 year old about the plastic bait business, I dont see how a communication contract company plays into this whatsoever. Alright since this thing has went completely south Someone, anyone give me a name of a major bait company that does not give some of their product away such as Strike King, Mann's, Zoom, Berkley, Zman, Robo-worm, or any of the other major players that do not sponser a pro fisherman who gets free product in exchange for promotions and free advertisement. Heck, not only do they get free product but they get paid for fishing them. Welcome to the bait business boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 No Bob I basically did not tell anyone to shut up. I basically told the truth in reference to the bait business. Show me one place that I stated that the bait business is all roses, all I have done is tell what the standard practices of all major bait companies are. Well you basically told us to shut up if we didn't do it for a living. LOL. Come on Mike. I run a business for a living. I do both stock and custom work. Business is hard. Any business. People will take advantage of you. Its reality. I hope he tries, and I hope he succeeds, but telling him if he starts a business his farts will smell like roses is bad advice. So to recap your honest opinion is that 100% of all knowledge or experience about business is inapplicable if we do not make plastic baits for a living. Come on. I don't believe you really think that. What I really don't believe is that you missed the irony of my post, and instead tried to take it seriously to take a back handed slap. You are better and smarter than that Mike. I think you discredit the rest of us here by implying we aren't. ROFL. I believe that explaining that it is hard, but encouraging him to try is a far wiser approach. Take pride in attempting something hard, and if it works out be able to have a huge sense of satisfaction in succeeding at it. I think I have told several times that business is hard and that I struggled, I have not discredited anyone in any way. As a matter of fact I think a couple of people have tried to take it the opposite direction and discredit me and truthfully all I have done is encourage the young man. The young man isn't asking about business in general, he is specifically asking about the legalities and things related to the bait business. My implications have been nothing but toward the bait making industry. Bob anything else being played into this is not my doing, you guys are acting like this kid is mortgaging the family home to start a bait business. So what if he gives 20 friends a bag of 10 worms, he is giving away 200 worms so he picks up 4 paying customers, thats the 5% guess what he started a business. Its a shame when a good thread takes a turn for the worse and goes completley off topic basically just because someone is trying to prove a point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Another thing we all might consider is that said 15-year-old has not responded since his original post, and he's had 2 total posts. EDIT: I stand corrected. His second post simply said "Thanks", which was posted on the same day as the original, so take that for what it's worth............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Can you blame him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Can you blame him? Well no.......not really, but I don't think he knew what he was in for when he asked that question. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Well no.......not really, but I don't think he knew what he was in for when he asked that question. LOL! I know what you mean Al, I didn't know what I was getting into when I answered, especially when someone suggested for me to chime in, that I had paid my dues 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Bob considering that this about giving advice to 15 year old about the plastic bait business, I dont see how a communication contract company plays into this whatsoever. Alright since this thing has went completely south Someone, anyone give me a name of a major bait company that does not give some of their product away such as Strike King, Mann's, Zoom, Berkley, Zman, Robo-worm, or any of the other major players that do not sponser a pro fisherman who gets free product in exchange for promotions and free advertisement. Heck, not only do they get free product but they get paid for fishing them. Welcome to the bait business boys. This thread went south since you decided that-no one else. Now that we cleared that up,I stated I gave a way plenty of free baits my 1st two years in business and then wasted my time ,effort and money donating product to local,pro wannabees. I still give free samples w/ orders-get it?? I've never denied that one doesn't have to give free baits as a promotional expense. I'm not intersted in becoming the #3-4- or even 100th ranking.soft-bait producer. I'm a small ,custom manufacturer and will stay that way w/ no plans to move up to the next level.The numbers simply don't add up and i don't want any more pressure. I have 30 years of self-employed contracting business experience and read people very well- especially the gimme,el cheapo crowd.They're a dime a dozen and most come out of the same mold . I'll stand by my advice I gave the 15 years old. Education and /or a professional trade 1st.. Once established, then dabble in lure manufacturing. Possibly it may develope into a good retirement type of business.Someone would have tp be willing to invest 1K (for him to basically get started now )and knowledgable/experienced to explain the dangers associated w/ plastisol , lead and the proper safety requirements. Since you brought it up,I'll deviate a bit from the topic BTW-not all Pro's get all the free baits they want and paid to use them-the top dogs get a percentage of the company's net profits. Small to medium size lure companies would go broke quickly if they gave copious amounts of free product and paid all pro's and pro wanabees to use their baits.If being a Pro Bass Fisherman was so profitable, they why do they have to drive their BM&T rigs around the country themselves? Look into the Ranger boat sposoring program and find out how it really works.Very,very few Pro's reach the top of the financial rainbow.Those that do may receive somewhat of a lucrative endorsement(s)- but i don't see any of them owning a Tiger Woods Yacht Large lure manufacturing companies cannot afford millions of $ handed out to Pro's and that's business fact! Edited August 20, 2013 by smallmouthaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 No smallmouth the thread went south when I said it was a standard practice for people starting out to give baits away. And for some reason you have taken offense to it, when it's the truth. All I said is that it was a common practice and I didn't say anyone had to do it, but I was kind enough to give an example of how it had worked out for me. And I understand that you and Bob both have experience in business, but my experience is directly related to plastic manufacturing and by saying this, I'm not saying anyone's wrong. You guys are reading into it what you want to, I'm simply stating that I do have experience with this particular subject. Enough that I have went to the next level. And again no one has said anything about not getting an education, but what is wrong with a 15 year old having a part-time bait business as a learning experience? Please read the quote of mine that you put up, where does it say anything about all pros being sponsored? It states that all major plastic companies have pros that they support by paying and giving them baits. I think everyone understands that all pros do not have sponsors, but again all major companies do sponsor pros. And again no one is talking about an enormous amount of baits. And almost all the guys that are sponsored by big companies have their gas and entry fees paid for them, and several of them get supplied with free vehicles (trucks or SUV). But some pros do receive enormous amounts of baits for free, along with boats, batteries, fishing rods, reels, trolling motors, power poles and depth finders. Guy Eaker is an acquaintance of mine and I've been to his house several times. He gave me and the wife a tour of his basement which is a very large basement by the way, and it is absolutely packed full of items that the major companies have given him. Ranger Boats is not a lure manufacturing company. But they do have one or two pros and most of your major lure manufacturers have more pros than this. And besides smallmouth, you are the one that suggested that I chime in on this one because I had paid my dues. Basically if you didn't want to hear my opinion why did you suggest I chime in? Bob, by stating that I do it for a living, was not in any way saying that you or anyone else didn't know what they were talking about. It was basically saying and should have been taken as, I started at the bottom of the plastic industry and worked my way up to large scale manufacturing, by knowing what I am doing. I guess it would be the same thing as me referencing a plastic injection machine when the conversation was about a security system. All I did was stick to the topic and try to explain to a young man how everyone got started in the plastic industry and the common practices of the plastic industry. Again, everyone is more worried about responding to me instead of concentrating on the standard practices of a plastic business. But I've got myself caught up into it too. But I've been trying to stick to the subject. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 No smallmouth the thread went south when I said it was a standard practice for people starting out to give baits away. And for some reason you have taken offense to it, when it's the truth. All I said is that it was a common practice and I didn't say anyone had to do it, but I was kind enough to give an example of how it had worked out for me. i never took offense to your 1st quoted statement.You just assumed i was and to assume makes an a$$ out of you and me! Please get off your stubborn horse and carefully read exactly what i have written in this entire thread.I gave him specific advice based upon 37 years in my own business. Give the 15 year old prudent advice. Who's buying the equipment for him, explaning the caveats while showing him how to make soft-baits safely? Oh wait a minute- a small Lee pot and some hand pour molds from Lurecraft and he's good to go-P-L-E-A-S-E! A small ,soft-plastics business is much more financially involved then $2-$400.00.( add a 0 in front of the decimel point) He should be studying hard and applying himself in school. Futhermore, just how is supposed to turn a profit while attending high school? It's a shame he doesn't live in S.E.Pa. I'd offer him a summer job and let him get a real taste of a small tackle business.Most 15 year olds don't have excess $ to throw around. Some O.J.T. would ceratinly give hime the opportunity to make some money and gain hands on experience before foolisly spends hard earned money on equipment ,molds and plastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetickhound Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 If the kid's really sharp he'll go to trade school, learn how to run a CNC nachine and make a mint off of dopes like me who are willing to spend a ton of $$$$ on molds!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Oh wait a minute- a small Lee pot and some hand pour molds from Lurecraft and he's good to go-P-L-E-A-S-E! A small ,soft-plastics business is much more financially involved then $2-$400.00.( add a 0 in front of the decimel point) Explain to me why this young man cannot start out with a Lee pot, considering my whole business started out with two Lee pots and 40 POP molds. 20 molds of two different types of jig trailers. I was supplying 4 stores with this setup alone, and it was less than $300 to get started, including plastic, coloring and glitter. I was working a full time job and had two small children, so why couldn't a 15 year old productive young man, not do this and go to school? Again I'm speaking from experience, especially since I have a 16 year old and a 13 year old son. The 16 year old is taking Honors classes in high school and college classes as well. He worked a part time job for most of the summer and during the school year he helps me in the shop, plus still he has time for his guitar and Xbox. What would be wrong with an enterprising young man spending a Saturday making baits? Your average high school kid is not going to spend all weekend long in his books. And if he enjoys making baits in his spare time, why be against it? And as far as the costs go, between the prices of Iphones, Ipads, Xbox, video games and computers, I don't think that $400-$600 is out of the question. I think it would be totally his and his parents decision whether the money was foolishly spent or not. You really sound totally against the idea of a young man starting his own business, but yet you say you would bring him into your shop and work him and give him OJT. So why not instead of being so discouraging give him some safety advice, some pointers on actually making baits and some advice to his parents on supervision. I know several people on this forum alone who did their own OJT with good quality advice and encouragment from people who care on TU. To say that you can only start a bait business by investing thousands of dollars is just not a true statement and I myself am living proof of that. Sure the Lee pot days were hard work, but I gained a vast array of knowledge by starting out very small. The same thing I've been encouraging this young man to do the whole time. After all, the most I've said about this business venture is it's between him and his friends and maybe some neighbors. Who knows he could start the next Berkley. Let the young man dream and encourage his dreams to come true. bluetickhound, that's what I like to hear. Positive comments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLewers Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Mike I have talked to you several times on the phone. You have given me great advice. Thank you. I started my business with 1 gallon of plastic and a few colors and 2 molds. Handed out some baits to friends and then next thing you know word spread. Now I have a website and all that. Not to mention a ton of molds. I go through about 5 gallons of plastic every two months or so now. I know thats not a lot comppared to some on here. But hey its a start. I am pretty sure that a 15 year old can do it if he wants to. I am guessing everyone started out pretty much the same way. No one woke up one day and said " I think I will go spend 20k and learn the bait making business". We all started small just pouring for ourselves and a few friends and then next thing you know a hobby turned into away to make some extra money. By no means am I ready to stop working my full time job. I am working on doing that but its not going to happen tomorrow. I just lost my train of thought. so Ill go ahead and stop typing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Explain to me why this young man cannot start out with a Lee pot, considering my whole business started out with two Lee pots and 40 POP molds. It's pointless to argue or even repeat my advise to him - you seem to have all the answers for a lucrative,start-up,small plastics business w/ hand pour molds and a Lee pot.. It's 2013 -not 1995 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 wow a good ole TU Donnybrook going on how'd I miss it Wonder how discouraged he is now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdL Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Interesting that the young man hasn't post a response since the first page of this thread. Bet he went on to other things (hopefully planning on what to get to get started on his business). I think most young folks move on pretty quick after hearing old timers go on about what they know or experienced. If he's ambitious he will likely move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) wow a good ole TU Donnybrook going on how'd I miss it Wonder how discouraged he is now Chris, It's just a difference of opinions. Any successful and legitimate business , that is going to produce a viable income ( after taxes and expenses)requires a substantial and continuos investment which far exceeds the cost of a Lee pot and hand pour and/or POP molds. Edited for spelling Edited August 21, 2013 by smallmouthaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
