Solarez Question

[mark poulson]

I am reading that guys are getting "foggy" finishes.

I haven't experienced that.

I use PVC and Createx/Auto Air/Folk Art/Apple Barrel/Wasco paints, which I dry with a hair dryer between coats.

I use a nail box UV light for curing, and lift and turn the baits every 30 seconds for three minutes.

Is anyone using PVC having fogging issues, or is it just those building with wood or resin?

[Nathan]

Mark,

I use it to seal my wooden baits before the painting process and have never noticed any cloudiness ....and the times I have messed with it as a top coat it always came out clear....I generally use enamel paints over a laquer base...Nathan

[Tracy G]

I use it from time to time as a topcoat and get a cloudy finish on dark colored lures, it seems to clear up a bit when I let the lures sit a little while after application and use thinner coats (brushed on). but I have had a second coat to wrinkle.  But I love it as a sealer, especially on cedar lures, it allows me to get to the test run a lot faster. I think that it will be a great top coat if I can get the cloudiness out though and it seems like you have that figured out.

[mark poulson]

It could be that the cloudy just doesn't show up on my lighter paint jobs.

I haven't tried it on a dark colored lure, but I will, to see if it's a color thing.

I'll post the results, either way.

[nedyarb]

I don't see it on white, just black colors! I just painted this one, dipped one time!

[mark poulson]

I repainted a crank yesterday with a black back, and dipped it.  3 minutes in the nail light, lifted and turned every 30 seconds, and it didn't cloud up.  It's in the boat to be swum today, so I'll know more when I get it into the sunlight.

[RayburnGuy]

I'm not getting the cloudy spots like in the picture posted by Nedyarb, but the baits I've coated with Solarez are definitely not as clear as say one that was done with epoxy. When you guys are talking about the cloudy, or hazy, finishes is that what your talking about or is it that the Solarez just isn't as clear as some of the other clear coats?

 

thanks guys,

Ben

[mark poulson]

My black backed crank seems clear, but it isn't as sharp as the SC 9000 cleared baits.

But it is plenty clear in the water, and I was able to paint and clear the bait Friday evening, and fish it Saturday.  

I even did a "test" when I, intentionally of course, cast too far and bounced it off a rock.  Hahaha  

It didn't crack, dent, or scratch.  Maybe it's because the PVC it's made from is so hard, so it helps protect the finish, if that makes sense.

Edited August 11, 2013 by mark poulson

[mark poulson]

One "drawback" I've found with Solarez is that it is fragile over foil.  The softer foil doesn't give it a rigid surface, so impacts from rocks result in chips and small, localized fracturing.  

Since I use PVC instead of wood, water intrusion isn't a problem, but I stop fishing a lure that's damaged, so the foil doesn't get water under it, until it dries out and I can repair it on the water with clear nail polish or super glue, or redip in back in the garage.

Of course, a much better alternative is not to cast the lure into the rocks, but what fun would that be?  Hahaha

[BobP]

I first tried dipping a lure and then curing it in a nail UV box in January of this year (in a cold garage).  I had both sheeting of the Solarez and the white haze on the aft part of the lure.  I'm guessing the white haze is wax that is in the Solarez to suffocate the resin during the curing process so the surface will get hard.  Don't ask me what that means exactly because I don't know - I just read it!  When I brush Solarez on raw wood as an undercoat, I haven't noticed the white haze... but that's maybe because I don't really care what undercoats look like.  But I do get some brush strokes left in the resin because it doesn't level out like epoxy, and I have to sand them out afterwards.  In any event, I stopped trying to use Solarez as a topcoat after the first experiment and now I have a lifetime supply of Solarez undercoating.  Would the bass really care if there was a white haze on the lure?  No, but I do since there are other topcoats where this isn't a problem.

[mark poulson]

I don't know why you get the haze.  I haven't dipped yet with Solarez in the winter here, but I live where it seldom gets really cold, so that may have something to do with it.

Maybe there's also something with building with wood, too, but I doubt that it would make that kind of a difference, since I think you seal your baits before you paint them, and you paint them and heat dry them during the entire process.

When it's cold here, there's a lot of condensation on everything outside, because I live near the ocean, but it's seldom really humid.  Since I do my lure making in my unheated garage, I hit my lures with a hair dryer before I dip them, just to be sure there's no moisture trapped.

I'll see what happens this winter, now that I'm using Solarez.

I have to admit that, even if there's some haze, I'll still use it, because being able to shape, paint, and topcoat a lure in the same day is just such an amazing time saver that I will put up with a little haziness if it happens.

I'll try and remember to post how it goes this winter.

[A-Mac]

I don't know why you get the haze.  I haven't dipped yet with Solarez in the winter here, but I live where it seldom gets really cold, so that may have something to do with it.

Maybe there's also something with building with wood, too, but I doubt that it would make that kind of a difference, since I think you seal your baits before you paint them, and you paint them and heat dry them during the entire process.

When it's cold here, there's a lot of condensation on everything outside, because I live near the ocean, but it's seldom really humid.  Since I do my lure making in my unheated garage, I hit my lures with a hair dryer before I dip them, just to be sure there's no moisture trapped.

I'll see what happens this winter, now that I'm using Solarez.

I have to admit that, even if there's some haze, I'll still use it, because being able to shape, paint, and topcoat a lure in the same day is just such an amazing time saver that I will put up with a little haziness if it happens.

I'll try and remember to post how it goes this winter.

I'm starting to think you got a different mix in your batch...for the better though.  I get considerable haze in mine if I expose too much light.  Even if I do everything perfect, it still doesn't come close to epoxy (or the concrete sealer stuff).  I was trying mine in Texas, so low humidity and high heat.  Nevertheless, you seem to talk a different story with your solarez trials than the rest of us.  All I can think of is you have a different mix with less wax.

[bobv]

I get  haze every time I use Solarez. Strictly an under coat from now on.

[BobP]

Topcoats get so much attention here on TU because they are "the face" of every lure you make.  Discussions about them seem endless.  Like most other builders, I want finishes to be as perfect as possible in terms of both presentation and reliability.  It's really not enough that a bass won't care if the lure has some haze on it - I CARE.  If a problem in the topcoat pops up after I undercoat and paint the lure, the topcoat isn't meeting my expectations and I feel like the build was at least partially a failure.  Making it worse is the knowledge that a screwed up topcoat is a royal PITA to fix.

 

It would be great if someone comes up with an iron clad reliable method of using UV cured polyester for topcoating.  Something you can count on to make it work as reliably as epoxy, auto clearcoat, or moisture cured urethanes to get a presentation-ready crankbait.  Having tried it myself, I know that I don't know how to do it.

[mark poulson]

Usually I'm the one who has weird results, so I'm puzzled at my "no haze" baits.

My Solarez bottle says, "Dual-cure Polyester Gloss Resin".

Is this what everone else is using?

[BobP]

Yep, same stuff!  Maybe it's a California thing.  Only works right if you live within 25 miles of the Pacific ocean and say "Dude" a lot .  Seriously, I can see lots of small wax flakes floating on the surface of my Solarez, so maybe there is some variability in how the batches are mixed.  Since the prime use of Solarez seems to be coating surf boards, most of which are basically white and where the application method is usually a squeegee, maybe the amount of wax content is not a critical factor for typical users.  But if you use a counter-shaded paint scheme on a crankbait where the back is a dark color, any wax hazing really stands out.

 

 Several details could contribute to hazing.  Maybe hanging the bait up after the initial coating but before curing contributes to the wax migrating to the lowest part of the lure - typically the tail section.  Perhaps it would be better to rotate the lure while you wait for the Solarez to level out - if you wait.  Ambient temperature may effect how the Solarez behaves while being applied.  Dunno - waiting for a Solarez guru to appear who has enough experience to know where you can screw it up and who is able to tell me exactly how to get perfect results every time.

[KelpKritter]

I live a bit inland from Mark, but essentially the same locale and I have not had any issues with hazing on my baits wheter they are dark or light color schemes.  I specifically paint a majority of my baits with darker shades; black, green, and a number of shades of brown. Not sure what the issues of hazing are linked to, but they are not a problem for me.

 

DaveB.

[atlasstone]

You can always buff that haze out if you like.  Here is a piece of scrap that I buffed out:

 

Here are some tests I did with and without adding the mekp using single and double coats:

 

I enjoy the flexibility of Solarez because it affords me the time to make sure the coat is smooth and I have the coverage I need (if you don't add the mekp).  With the other clears it's only a matter of time before it cures whether you like it or not and I'm simply not skilled enough to trust that I got it right the first time 

 

Others have asked how I buff them out so here is my response:

 

I got all of it at the auto parts store.  I think it was NAPA because the one we have here has a paint department.  What I used was:
 

1000 grit wet/dry sand paper ( I dry sanded but dry sanding followed by some wet sanding may reduce polish time... I've not tested it)

http://www.napaonlin...3013_0006436611
 

3M Perfect It II Fine Cut rubbing compound (39002)

http://www.napaonlin...9002_0006436791

http://www.amazon.co...2/dp/B0002NUNB6
 

Micro fiber cloth
 

I used the sand paper until the surface was even and dull, then I wiped off off the dust and put a small dab of rubbing compound on cloth and just rubbed the finish with moderate pressure. Circles are best if you have the room, but not necessary. I think any rubbing compound and cloth will work, but I prefer the liquid over the pastes.  I use it all the time to remove screen printed logos off of plastics and to get minor scratches out of car finishes etc. 
 

If the finish is really uneven or wavy, you can use a 600 grit sandpaper to flatten it out then smooth it out with the 1000 grit. Anything more abrasive than 600 and you will have a tough time getting the scratches out.  You can even use a 2000 grit if you notice any scratches, but with the Solarez, I have not needed to go down to the 2000.
 

I think the solarez is hard enough that you could use a buffing wheel ( cotton not the felt) without burning through it if you use it with the rubbing compund, but I do all of mine by hand. If you do one practice piece, I'm sure you will get the hang of it quickley.

 

[mark poulson]

You can always buff that haze out if you like.  Here is a piece of scrap that I buffed out:

 

Here are some tests I did with and without adding the mekp using single and double coats:

 

I enjoy the flexibility of Solarez because it affords me the time to make sure the coat is smooth and I have the coverage I need (if you don't add the mekp).  With the other clears it's only a matter of time before it cures whether you like it or not and I'm simply not skilled enough to trust that I got it right the first time 

 

Others have asked how I buff them out so here is my response:

 

I got all of it at the auto parts store.  I think it was NAPA because the one we have here has a paint department.  What I used was:

 

1000 grit wet/dry sand paper ( I dry sanded but dry sanding followed by some wet sanding may reduce polish time... I've not tested it)

http://www.napaonlin...3013_0006436611

 

3M Perfect It II Fine Cut rubbing compound (39002)

http://www.napaonlin...9002_0006436791

http://www.amazon.co...2/dp/B0002NUNB6

 

Micro fiber cloth

 

I used the sand paper until the surface was even and dull, then I wiped off off the dust and put a small dab of rubbing compound on cloth and just rubbed the finish with moderate pressure. Circles are best if you have the room, but not necessary. I think any rubbing compound and cloth will work, but I prefer the liquid over the pastes.  I use it all the time to remove screen printed logos off of plastics and to get minor scratches out of car finishes etc. 

 

If the finish is really uneven or wavy, you can use a 600 grit sandpaper to flatten it out then smooth it out with the 1000 grit. Anything more abrasive than 600 and you will have a tough time getting the scratches out.  You can even use a 2000 grit if you notice any scratches, but with the Solarez, I have not needed to go down to the 2000.

 

I think the solarez is hard enough that you could use a buffing wheel ( cotton not the felt) without burning through it if you use it with the rubbing compund, but I do all of mine by hand. If you do one practice piece, I'm sure you will get the hang of it quickley.

 

 

Great post!!!  Thanks for taking the time to 'splain it to us.

I do hang my baits before I cure them, and then remove both the drip at the bottom, and any that's in the hook hangers, before I hang them in my nail box.  I rotate them every 30 seconds for three minutes, and they do fine.

I just brought five cranks in from the boat.  They all have the same foil finishes, with black scale shoulders and black backs.

Four were dipped once in Solarez, the other three times in SC 9000.  The SC 9000 does not dim the paint schemes, and it is what I used before I found Solarez.

One of the Solarez baits seems to have a slight hazing on it's black back that I had to hold under a bright indoor light to see.  I really had to look hard to see it, but there's definitely something there.

So I'm not immune, either.  

Maybe it's less pronounced here than it is where there's more humidity.  I don't know.

I wipe my foiled baits down with denatured alcohol before I paint and coat them.  Maybe that has something to do with it, too.  Maybe the Solarez brings any contaminants to the surface as it cures, too.  

I'm no chemist, so I'm totally clueless.

But whatever it is, it is so hard to see that I really had to search for it, so it's not noticeable in ordinary light, and certainly not in the water. 

All in all, the convenience of being able to coat a bait and have it ready to fish in less than five minutes, counting the time it takes to put on the split ring line tie and the trebles,  far outweighs any hard-to-see hazing that might occur.

But I am just a hobby builder, who builds cranks to fish, not to sell, so I only have me to please.

 

A question.  If the haze is due to wax on the surface that can be buffed out, wouldn't you be able to remove it by wiping it down with alcohol?

Also, what kind of liquid polish do you use?  I use Brasso to polish my foil before I paint or coat it, and wipe the lure down with alcohol to remove any left over polish before I proceed.  I am less than thrilled with the Brasso polish, so I'd love to find another that works better.

Edited September 25, 2013 by mark poulson

[atlasstone]

I just use the rubbing compound linked above.  If you wanted to polish it further than what the rubbing compound does, ironically I would try a wax or polymer polish similar to what would be used on a car or, probably more appropriate, a boat.  I've heard good things about Bass Boat Saver and Slick Mist

[Inrll]

I use a bench grinder with a buffing wheel. I bought it used at the local flea market for $20. I also picked up some white polishing compound (for polishing plastics) at Harbor Freight. Now whether I get the hazed surface or not I can spend about a minute buffing the lure and it comes out super glossy!

[mark poulson]

I'm on my way to Pep Boys!

[RayburnGuy]

I'm on my way to Pep Boys!

 

Hey Mark,

 

Can you pick up a radiator cap for a 1936 Packard Sport Phaeton for me while your at Pep Boys?

 

Ben

 

[mark poulson]

Hahaha!!!  

My next door neighbors had a Packard when I was a kid, and I used to think I could get lost in the back seat, it was so big!  A huge tear drop shaped car, and it felt like you were in a cloud when you rode in it, it rode so soft.

That car would probably be worth something today, if one of their four boys hadn't wrecked it!  

[RayburnGuy]

Hahaha!!!  

My next door neighbors had a Packard when I was a kid, and I used to think I could get lost in the back seat, it was so big!  A huge tear drop shaped car, and it felt like you were in a cloud when you rode in it, it rode so soft.

That car would probably be worth something today, if one of their four boys hadn't wrecked it!  

 

Cars were definitely bigger back in the day. The first car I remember my parents having was a 56 Buick. It was tricked out with all the accessories that were available back then. We used to run the battery down playing with the power windows. Dad warmed my keister  up about that a few times. And the back seat was so big it seemed like a boy scout troop could have slept back there. That's been a while ago, but it sure brings back some good memories.