psilvers Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 We recently sold our house and I moved into an apartment while I look for a job on the East Coast so I can be back with my wife and daughter. i used to pour jigs in our second garage. It turns out that I am not allowed to BBQ on the balcony of my apartment- so I think pouring lead jigs is definitely out! Pouring jigs outside - assuming I could get electricity to the melting pot- is not something with which I would feel comfortable because of the possibility of something dropping in the pot. Any ideas on where I can pour jigs? Thanks, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jig Man Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Do it on the top of your kitchen stove. Just turn on the vent fan and go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Do it on the top of your kitchen stove. Just turn on the vent fan and go for it. Hold on there- some kitchen fan hoods do not vent to the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Do it on the top of your kitchen stove. Just turn on the vent fan and go for it. I would NOT do it on the stove whether it vented to the outside or not. I keep my lead away from my food! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apdriver Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I have processed tire weights outside in the back yard. I feel that was much safer than my shop and the enclosure of that and the fire hazard. If I had the choice of my kitchen or outside, I would wait for a nice, no precip day and pour outside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jig Man Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hold on there- some kitchen fan hoods do not vent to the outside. Really. I didn't know that. I've never lived where one didn't vent to the outside. I used to melt my plastics on the kitchen stove when I first started out and lived in a duplex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLT Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Another vote for outside on a non-rain day. Can you get a cheap beach unbrella to put over the pot and you outside just in case? Cheap canopy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Lead posioning from fumes is a stark reality that can happen when melting lead w/out proper ventilation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Lead posioning from fumes is a stark reality that can happen when melting lead w/out proper ventilation. Actually no, lead doesn't vaporize until 900+ degrees, but the fumes from impurities, well that is another story and yes, that will make you sick. BTW , that info on the lead came directly from an engineer at Deka Batteries. You will get more lead in you from handling it than you ever will inhaling it, unless you heat it until it vaporizes but I don't know if a Lee pot can heat lead to that temp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gangel Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I tried to bite my tongue on this as long as I could, but I couldn't hold back anymore. This is one of my biggest pet peeves, and this might be the post that gets me banned from this website. I've been looking into the the "don't breathe lead fumes" for a long time. I found it hard to believe that people would complain about lead fumes when melting, yet sit in there car with a battery under the hood venting into the engine bay, which ULTIMATELY vents into the car. (in a round about way, but that's neither here nor there). There are tons of other instances that I could site about lead in your everyday life, that you'd never realize was/is lead. That being said, and with the addition SOMEDAY STARTING A BUSINESS INVOLVING LEAD, I started to read up on it. And it's always been 50/50 on the "lead fumes will hurt you". Then I read some more on it. Like lead paint just needs to be sealed up, in most cases. Getting rid of lead based painted wood? Wrap it in a tarp and tape it up and throw it out. Everything I saw and read was pointing more towards ingesting and touching. But even that was sketchy. There are guys who shoot trap and hunt and stuff, and have probably touched the equivelent of 20 tons of lead, in just general gun related stuff. (gun cleaning, spent shell touching, wad touching, even reloading). Yes, it might be small and very random, but it does add up. Yet you never hear that warning with them. Then I started looking into manufacturing. I looked at Gremlin in MN. And I'm pretty sure I saw an online video somewhere.... and all I saw was a small face respirator. Nothing fancy. Then I thought about it more. If lead was really sooooooo bad, any job involving lead would have a 6 month lifetime limit. Just like Nuclear stuffs. But it doesn't. I saw another manufacturing video, on Youtube, where they were casting lures. 5 guys handling the stuff to spin cast. Big(ger) business. This business was seen on a lot of TV with this "special" that was taped. And not one person had any "protection". One person had gloves on, I think for heat resistance. But not even so much as a lead apron anywhere. After I saw that, and knowing the size of this business and that the EPA and OSHA would be all over them, I really started to doubt the whole "lead fume" thing. Now, onto to what may get me banned. And probably rightly so. I was pretty much called out and told I didn't know anything because "I didn't have an actual business" and this other person had 50 million years of experience and blah blah blah. THIS REALLY MAKES ME MAD. Turns out this other person has been a., mis informed, and b., maybe been doing it wrong all these years? I do not, will not, can not stand the "I've been doing it this way for 50 million years, and I'm still around and making money and it must be right". This kind of thinking is what has gotten many people, many businesses and many gov't's in trouble. Now, this wasn't a personal attack. Not by any means. It's merely a wake up call to ANYONE who could be considered the He Who Yells Loudest And Most isn't always righ person.t. But an oppurtunity like this presents itself, and I hate internet myths, and most of all I've always hated the I've done it this way forever attitude. Maybe I didn't get enough sleep today, who knows. But in conclusion, you can do it on your balcony. But no fluxing. The whole BBQ thing is the chance for 3 foot flames and smoke rolling/wafting into your building. I would treat running a hot pot like a small fryer, a fondue pot. Yes, it does have lead, but how much lead are you going to run that it's gonna really matter. P.S. If anyone would like to discuss my thoughts further, or even see videos that I've looked at for proof, let me know. Edited August 20, 2013 by Gangel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) A guy I went to highschool with who I have been friends with since, use to work in a car battery recycling plant. After working there for two years he went for a physical and told the doctor what he did for a living. The Doc said that he would check for lead in his system. The results came back !!! his blood levels had 30 times the allowed levels and he was given a year off work paid by workman's compensation. They opened an investigation and forced the plant to fix all their ventilation and procedures. It took almost a year and a half for his blood levels to get back to normal. He found another type of work after that! I know that this is extreme as he work 40 + hours a week breathing and touching the lead but it can easily get into your body and it takes a long time to get out. Taking precautions can never hurt you and lead dust of any kind in your house is not safe period. Edited August 20, 2013 by Jdeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gangel Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Now this also doesn't make sense. In reading up on this, I was informed that once lead poisoned, always lead poisoned. It doesn't come and go and get better/worse. I'm looking for the sites I once read this on, and the CDC and stuff. I want to have the solid proof on this one for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Once drunk always drunk???? It takes a long time for levels to drop back to normal like I said Call up your workmans compensation board or whatever you have in your state and ask them for proof. I am sure they can enlighten you Edited August 20, 2013 by Jdeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowFISH Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I pour outside in my driveway on a small "portable" table.... I just put something over the pot to shield it from anything dropping in it.... basically that's all your garage roof does, it's just a it larger!!! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Now this also doesn't make sense. In reading up on this, I was informed that once lead poisoned, always lead poisoned. It doesn't come and go and get better/worse. I'm looking for the sites I once read this on, and the CDC and stuff. I want to have the solid proof on this one for sure. Jdeee is correct Gangel but so are you, I'll try to explain. I know one of the engineers at a battery plant, I asked him about lead dangers and he told me this, some guys in the plant get high levels of lead in their blood, it does come down but it never really goes away. What happens is they end up getting lead in them by ingesting and through the skin, that also explains why some develop high levels of lead in a short time and others do not, it is due to things like skin composition. Some people have large pores, those people will have a problem handling lead in a battery plant because lead dust particles that are too large to enter one persons pores end up going into another person. There are 2 ways to inhale lead, you either inhale dust or vapor, airborne lead vapor isn't a problem for us guys as we do not heat lead to over 900 degrees F. I believe the it is 961 degrees, that is how hot it needs to be to vaporize, but smallmouthaholic was right, the fumes are bad for you but it isn't the lead fumes, it is the impurities, that is why is is good to know the source of the lead. I have a shop in my basement, my ventilation system consist of a small window and a fan, the fan blows across the work space toward the window, I've been pouring lead for 15 years and my lead levels are normal, as long as you can vent the fumes from the impurities and wash your hands before eating or smoking or putting anything in your mouth and you will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 They use chelation theapy to remove excess lead from your blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Thanks Smalljaw Maybe I should have worded it differently Back to acceptable levels where he could have gone back to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Actually no, lead doesn't vaporize until 900+ degrees, but the fumes from impurities, well that is another story and yes, that will make you sick. BTW , that info on the lead came directly from an engineer at Deka Batteries. You will get more lead in you from handling it than you ever will inhaling it, unless you heat it until it vaporizes but I don't know if a Lee pot can heat lead to that temp. i use a calbraited,digital pyrometer w/ an imersion probe to check molten lead temps . It's very easy for a Lee pot to exceed 900 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apdriver Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Psilvers, one thing I would like to add is if you pour outside at an apartment complex in any common area where kids frequent, you are likely to draw a crowd. This would make me very nervous and I would use extreme caution. Pouring hot lead and children wouldn't mix well in my opinion. A child could easily touch when another had you distracted, trip on your extension cord etc. I would find a quiet personal space to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 i use a calbraited,digital pyrometer w/ an imersion probe to check molten lead temps . It's very easy for a Lee pot to exceed 900 degrees. Now that is good to know, I was under the assumption that on its highest setting the Lee IV could go to a little over 800, I need to watch the temp, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Thanks for the input - it has been interesting. A few of my own comments- 1- I agree that children should not be around when there is a hot pot full of molten lead. There are not many kids around the complex, but there are dogs and I would be concerned about them. I don't want one of them tipping a pot of molten lead! 2-I have also put a thermometer in my pot and I have seen the temp over 900 degrees. I am not sure as to the exact temp, but it was hot! I try to keep the pot a little over 700 degrees. 3- I agree about handling lead. after pouring, I wash my clothes (twice!) and they are washed separately from my everyday clothes. I also take a thorough shower right after pouring. 4- I also thought about some kind of umbrella/tent to keep leaves and other debris from falling into the pot 5-I don't need to pour that often so I might just impose on a buddy! 6- Shhhh! Don't tell anyone, but I did pour a few jigs by placing the lead pot in a storage closet on the balcony and pouring at night. Then I realized that it might look suspicious to anyone who might see me working in the closet at night! My thought was that someone might think I was making meth or something! After all, how many folks would sneak around to pour jigs at night? That is, aside from the folks on this site So, I stopped before I caused a major investigation of my nighttime "cooking" adventures! Thanks for the input. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Now that is good to know, I was under the assumption that on its highest setting the Lee IV could go to a little over 800, I need to watch the temp, thanks. You're welcome. I have recorded accurate temps. of 1025-1095( in a smaller Lee ladle pot), especialy w/lower lead levels.i have molds that pour well @ 725 ,some @ 870 and 1 P.I.A. that pours well @ 925. Those who skirt the precautions necessary while using molten lead are kidding themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Lead is dangerous as soon as we break it form its bonds from the ore Galena as it is rarely found in its metallic state, lead miners never have lead health issues for this reason so reading a bunch of know it all's on the internet (it has to be true if its on the internet) mentality is flawed, mark my words deviate from the safety precautions that are warranted and you will find out the hard way. Psilvers how much and often do you plan to pour I mean is it possible to find and off site location better suited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I will try and find a site away from the apartment. At the house we sold, there was a separate 2nd garage/workshop that came in handy for pouring and stuff like that. I like to experiment with things - modifications to jigs, etc. So I would like to be able to pour at will. It should not be that frequently, so I guess I will just try and figure out something for the few times I want to pour. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasilofchrisn Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 I worked in the processing plant of a large zinc and lead mine. we wore 1/2 mask respirators and had our blood drawn and checked every 3 months. The dust was the biggest problem there. Of course they only did 800 tons of lead concentrate a day and 2,200 tons of zinc concentrate. As for the original question I ingotize scrap outside but usually pour in my garage with the large roll up door open. Is it possible to rent some shop or garage space somewhere? I know some areas do have such things as rental garage spaces. That or make some fishing friends with someone who has a garage and might be willing to let you work there occasionally for a few free jigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
