Jim Pfeffer Banana Lure

[diemai]

Hi , Folks ,

 

Came across this vintage lure a few days ago in the web , .......I'm somewhat curious about how it would swim , therefore I indent to make a knock-off after linked pictures "Red Wing Banana Lure" some day .

 

http://luresnreels.com/pfeffer.html

 

I'm only wondering , whether it would have any ballast in it's belly , can't figure out by those pictures , ........maybe someone in here has an original lure at hand and would be able to tell me , ...maybe even how high it would float up at rest .

 

Thanks , diemai

 

 

[littleriver]

Hello Dieter

 

A little before my time but I did a come up with this lead that may help. Here is the link 

 

http://www.joeyates.com/pfeffer.htm

 

Says the baits were made from Honduras mahogney , Interesting read. 

 

You might try emailing Joe Yates. His email is at bottom of page. Nice gentlemen and really into florida baits. Keep me posted on your progress please. Now you have my interest. I would really like to know the action. Joe says Jim's Dilly is reported to be perhaps the best trout lure ever made.....All very intriguing.

 

 What caught your interest in this lure? 

Edited August 21, 2013 by littleriver

[littleriver]

Here is another link. Talks a bit about the action of the lure. 

 

http://www.joeyates.com/Pat%20Woodall.htm

[ArdentAngler]

Interesting it looks similar to the Peter Biedron lure you recommended.

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Thanks a lot for the links , Vic , the belly view picture there would be very helpful about getting the lure's shape right , ...also , as it seems , there are no traces ballast hole to be seen , ......if there should be one still , I strongly assume it to be in the front part of the belly , .......and there even is a hint on the best imparted swimming action , coined on Florida saltwater species , though , ..but it surely would attract European pike this way as well .

 

Also your hint about the mahagony is great , I figure out that I should use somewhat heavier timber , ...got local beechwood and also teakwood .

 

I had considered about attending to Joe Yates straightaway , but I have concerns , that an entusiastic lure collector might never be fond of any requests regarding the duplication of vintage lures , simply because there are quite a bit of fakes and cheating around , as I've read .

 

You all know , that producing fakes to throw out for collectors to buy them never ever is my intention , ...my versions can be identified as replics even at first glance , ...making them just out of personal interest in the swimming action and catching abilities of yesteryear's lures .

 

I had seen this lure in my collectors book already years and years ago , had already caught my eye back then , ...but there was only a sideview sketch printed there , not enough for accurate reproduction , ...now I came across more pictures in the web , ...out of being bored I'd just google any lure-related terms sometimes and that's how I found it back .

 

Will keep you uptdated in here , probably I'll get started coming weekend .

 

@ ArdentAngler

 

Yes , Charles ,  it does a bit , ...though I think , that the angled mouth portion is not large enough to generate some kind of a regular wiggle at higher frequency , even not in conjunction with the relatively high towpoint .

 

On straight retrieve it would rather come back in some kinda wave pattern , .....after having read the passage about lure action in Vic's link , I now believe , it would make up for a pretty good darting lure as well , ....gotta built one by all means to finally find out !

 

Thanks a lot , ...greetz , Dieter

[littleriver]

Dieter,  did you see this one?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-Jim-Pfeffer-Banana-Lures-is-Wood-/161087471064?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=VtmxP%252FyFBNa9dtGAhhkeFiKi1Oo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Braided Line]

Have an original .    It only comes out for "show and tell.'     

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Thanks for links , Vic , ...but I'm not gonna pay as much , since I'm not a lure collector , ...also the vendors do not ship to Germany .

 

Sometimes I buy lures off US Ebay , though , ...not all vendors don't ship to Germany , some do stil , .....guess this is because of troubles about local customs , ......many local buyers might not know , that a merchandise value above 23 Euros has to be declared at local customs and they'd charge import taxes and VAT above that sum , .....the packages will be kept at the customs offices , until buyers come over and collect them , naturally dropping their fee as well . 

 

Customs only keep such deliveries for seven or ten days , ......after time out , ......return to sender . 

 

Guess , many buyers missed collecting their stuff , and the word has spread amongst overseas vendors , .....as a result :

 

No shipping to Germany !

 

I hate local customs       !

 

 

 

@ Braided Line

 

...........I would not swim it as well , if I had an original one   !

 

Thanks , Dieter

[littleriver]

@ diemai

 

    Glad your not interested in this one,because they are delivering to my house next week. 

 

I do not think this is a wood original but either way, I am sure it holds some answers. Not too worried about getting this one wet either.  Swim testing with some video footage is in order.    Looking forward to helping you bring this old bait back to life. I would like to find an inexpensive Dilly too. We have lots of trout fishing opportunities here. One can never have too many good baits. These designs we're popular in their day. See no reason why they won't work now. 

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Off course such old lures would still work nowadays , ...provided that they' d have a built-in fish attracting appeal .

 

If you have vintage models , that were made and sold for many years or even decades , you can be sure , that these do fulfill this demand , otherwise they would have vanished from the market very fast during their time .

 

Their dissappearance somewhen back in their period would always have other reasons but just not their fish catching abilities .

 

Good luck on Ebay , ...hope you won't have to face too much competition in the auctions , ...cheers , Dieter

[scrubs]

Let us know when you post pics of your results not to mention how it swims. I'm liking the rear bladed prop bait.

 

I can understand why the lure collectors don't release dimensions but it would be nice to do some repro lures without so much guessing.

bill

[littleriver]

Hello Dieter and  Bill 

 

Lures arrived today.  The Pfeffer is the plastic model. The Boone is wood. Wish it was the other way around but it is what it is.

 

I took both lures for a swim . The Boone was a shallow deadstick. One of the hooks had rusted away and this affected the action in a very negative manner. For now, I am leaving the Boone for another time. The Pfeffer on the other hand had a very successful swim. The action reminded me of a retreating baitfish running for its life just under the surface. The bait has a tight slow action pivoting near the center of the bait. Lots of movement in the baits direction as well (hunting). I had to start the retrieve slow to prevent blow out but once i had the bait up and going decent speeds could be achieved without blowing out. I needed some clearer water but what I saw i liked.  A good bait for fish feeding on minnows near the surface. 

 

I will post more info soon. 

[littleriver]

Promised more information and here it is ...........

 

The bait weighs 16 grams and has no ballast other than the hooks and hangers seen in the photos. Pretty sure a wood bait made from mahogany would weigh considerably more than this plastic model. The bait i have is made of a clear hollow plastic body. There is enough paint missing when I hold it to the light I can see all the way through it. Can not imagine this bait holding up long to toothy creatures living in the ocean. Here are some photos of the bait including a  waterlevel photo. Some things that cannot bee seen clearly in the photos, the bottom is much flatter than the top and slightly wider. It as though the bottom just has the corners rounded yet the top is curved from center to edge with no flat spot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scrubs]

Thaks for the pics it makes the shape much clearer especially the top view. How long is the body? The web links seem to show 3 sizes. It doesn't appear to be sitting very deeply in the water. I'd be tempted to use a lighter wood like Poplar and add weight.

 

bill

[scrubs]

@ diemai

 

    Glad your not interested in this one,because they are delivering to my house next week. 

 

I do not think this is a wood original but either way, I am sure it holds some answers. Not too worried about getting this one wet either.  Swim testing with some video footage is in order.    Looking forward to helping you bring this old bait back to life. I would like to find an inexpensive Dilly too. We have lots of trout fishing opportunities here. One can never have too many good baits. These designs we're popular in their day. See no reason why they won't work now. 

 

Are you sure they're not referring to specks or sea trout? His being from Florida that's what I'd guess. Although you never know. I was in Lincoln City OR last week and these tiny little salmon and trout parr would hit spinners half their size. 4-5" parr on homemade #3 Mepps.

 

bill

[littleriver]

Bill

 

You may well be right . Not too many rainbow jn Florida. Still, I  would like to try the bait. From the read, it sounded like a fish catcher. Fish are aggressive creatures to be sure. 

 

The banana is 3 5/8 inches long. 

[diemai]

 @ littleriver

 

Thank you so much for these pictures and detailed information about swimming action , shape and cross secction , Vic , ....even a swimming level foto , ...this is great , very kind from you , helps a great deal .

 

Guess , I need to make a design sketch in front of the computer screen , once I'd find the time for it , ....gonna use the teakwood of an old garten chair , that a workmate had given me years ago .

 

The way you've described the swimming action , it sounds like a perfect topwater pike bait , ....a so-called "skim-and-swim" lure generating surface commotion , but yet still has an underwater action on a straight retieve .

 

If so , it would be definately bound to catch pike , too !

 

@ scrubs

 

The best way to reproduce a bait is having access to an original lure , no way .

 

Made my first "Rush Tango Minnows"(very easy to shape on a lathe)after simple book picture instructions , ....but when I was presented with an original repaint(not worth that much amongst collectors) , I've still found little differences to my own models .

 

But on the other hand , working just by pictures , you might create an entirely different and productive lure as well , .........f.e. many years ago I've made my first "Lazy Ike" knock off just after a side view picture , .....had to guess on the top view , .......on first trials this little banana lure had produced three larger pike within one week of vacation back then , and also spawned an entire line of homemade banana lures for me .

 

Couple of months ago I've got an original vintage plastic "Lazy Ike" off US Ebay , ....just to see , that compared to my very first straight-bodied knock-off it is tapered down the tail , ...something , I could not see by that picture back then , ....but still my own model had stuck ,....... by now I'm making most of my banana lures WITHOUT a tail taper .

 

                   Thanks again , folks , gonna keep you informed , ....greetz , Dieter

[littleriver]

Thank you Dieter

 

I would have never known about this lure without your bringing to our attention. It may be an old design but some of the oldies are the best. Here is some footage of the bait in action for your enjoyment. 

 

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Thank you so much for having taken the efforts making this little clip , Vic ,  ....I appreciate it very much , ...now I can hardly wait to get started sketching and carving my own version , just too short of time presently .

 

This lure model would surely be attractive to local pike , ..dead sure   !

 

I have figured out about the body shape by your describtions above , but one question remains for me , ......the thickest portion of the body cross section down the entire length , ...the lateral line , so to speak , .......I'm guessing that this would be an imaginary line starting at the very apex of the wedge shaped mouth indent and from there leading down the tail end rather paralell to the belly outline , ...off course viewed from the side ?

 

This would mean , that it would have some kinda egg-shaped cross section , BUT with a rather flat belly only rounded of at either side , ..........or it has a plane portion of minor height on either flank ?

 

Thanks a lot again for your efforts , Vic , .........greetz , Dieter

[RayburnGuy]

Thanks for the video Vic. I like that action. I wonder what a feathered treble on the rear would do to it? Think it would kill the action?

 

Ben

[littleriver]

Your welcome Ben,

 

Sometimes only a video will do and this lure was a performer straight from the mailbox. Hard to believe it is over forty years old. Maybe, it is a good thing I received a plastic model; well preserved. I think your idea is a worth a try . It may be magic. This lure is sitting on the sweet spot. 

 

 

Dieter

 

Glad to help with the project. I live for the new   . If i had to make the same lure over and over   , I would have given up by now. Here are some more photos and a drawing. The drawing was about as good as it gets when you put a hillbilly and ruler together.  If you have any question about the drawing, please ask. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RayburnGuy]

Thanks Vic. If you get a chance try swimming one with a feathered treble and see what happens. I'd sure appreciate it as I believe I might like to give building something similar a try.

 

thanks again,

Ben

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Wow , Vic , ...this material is more than I could have asked for , ...thank you so much , it's just perfect       !

 

The belly is more rounded as I would have expected , but the lateral line is exactly , where I had assumed it to be , also the rounding of the flanks and back is like I had imagined .

 

Your sketch is OK to me , no worries , .....though I would do another one  to get templates for shaping the lure , ...surely I would put it up in here then , ....guess it would be during coming weekend shift , I'd find the time to do it , not before .

 

Hope you can twist back the screw eyes now , .........gonna use some kinda glue for it , or not , ........often their sit is quite loose after all of those years .

 

Thank you so much again , Vic , .....gonna keep you guys informed about my progress , ..greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

@ RayburnGuy

 

Ben , scroll down the pictures , you will find one souped up with a bucktail by a fisherman , ....so asssumingly such might have worked out !

 

http://www.joeyates.com/pfeffer.htm

 

                 Greetz , Dieter

[scrubs]

Littleriver,

No worries about the drawing, it fills in a lot about the cross section shape. Pics fill in the rest.

 

Diemai,

Your right about making old baits and coming up with something just a little different.

 

bill