Jim Pfeffer Banana Lure

[diemai]

Ok , fellas ,

 

Just got home from first day of this weekend's work , ......been busy there during break time , ........hope, that Vic could confirm my little production sketch  .

 

Since I do not have a scanner/printer to my computer , I had to trace rough drawings straight from my screen , ...together with Vic's measurements , which I had also scribbled down to take along to work ,  I came up with my hopefully more accurate sketch ?

 

The sideview should be quite OK , but not so sure about the topview , ......especially the thickness of the tail end and the front taper ,..... the latter might probably be still a bit more pronounced .

 

The initial sketch is for a 5"(127mm) model , ...also made some photocopies in reduced sizes for smaller versions , shown is an about  3"(74,93mm)copy , ...59% of original sketch size .

 

Gonna cut out the outlines and glue them onto prepared woodblocks of matching thickness , .......dunno , whether I could proceed carving this weekend , but by next one for sure .

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks again for all of your help   , ...greetz , Dieter

Edited August 31, 2013 by diemai

[littleriver]

@Dieter

 

Looks great! You really nailed it   , almost.  There is a slight 1 to 1,1/2mm drop on the belly starting at the front hook hanger going to the nose. I did a lousy Job capturing this drop in the profile  pictures. It is a slight drop just at the hook hanger to the nose. It as though, it gently starts sloping down towards the nose starting at the front hanger hanger. it is a  gentle turn rather than a clear break. It may not be a big deal but I wanted you to know it is there. Everything else is spot on . 

 

Looking forward to seeing your bait. I will give this a go myself next week but going to use a much lighter wood (paulownia) and weight the lure to get it sitting right in the water. I hope we can capture. the action of this bait. It is really responsive in the water. 

 

Great job on the sketch! I'll be using yours  . 

[littleriver]

Hope you can see it in this photo

 

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Thanks a lot for pointing out that one , VIc , ...I had simply overlooked it , ....and that slight drop of the belly curve is also not shown in this company's flyer  sketch pictured in here , also scribbled a copy of that from the screen to take to work as a reference .

 

http://www.joeyates.com/Pat%20Woodall.htm

 

Too late to alter my sketch now , I guess , would get to look too untidy , ......maybe I've gotta make a new one , ...or I can just bear this little detail in mind when shaping the lure ?

 

I might not want to miss it out , as it extends the lower lip plane downward a bit , probably enhancing the wiggling action of the lure ?

 

But I would also take a closer look at pictures of the older models handcarved by Jim Pfeffer himself ,...... if this gentle drop of belly outline would be recognizeable there , too , I'd consider it to be of a certain importance .

 

Thanks again for all of your help and also being my lecturer , Vic   , ........greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Vic , ...just googled around a bit , came across this collectors page , ....scroll down the pictures there and you'd find a few versions looking quite similar to the Jim Pfeffer Banana , only vary in details , .......in particular the "Four Tees" closer down the bottom of page .

 

http://orlandolures.webs.com/

 

These versions would surely swim a tad different to the genuine Pfeffer lure , but to see different versions makes me quite confident , that even a little inaccurate homemade knock-off would still have some kinda swimming action .

 

Also I saw , that the early timber Pfeffers had different angles to the scooped out portion of the mouth , ...might be fun experimenting with such as well .

 

greetz , Dieter

[mark poulson]

Is it just my eyes, or does the lure "hunt"?

[diemai]

Just got upstairs from the workshop , .........after having painted the base colors onto some other lureblanks , I could not help it to get started with my first "Jim Pfeffer Banana" version , .....though I'm supposed to fetch some sleep prior to my weekend shift work starting tonite  .

 

Alright , just planed this piece of well seasoned teakwood salvaged from a workmate's broken garden chair down to required thickness , glued on a sketch cut-out and coarse sanded the body outline down to marker lines(took that front belly drop into consideration , Vic  ) , .......cut down the scooped out mouth with a circular sawblade on my hobby routing machine(rather a drill press with a crosswise moving table) .

 

Also marked the center line and drilled pilot holes for the screw eyes , comes more accurate , as the blank is still square .

 

Could not help it to rig the hooks and twist in the screw eyes for a first impression about how the lure would look in the end  , ......I decided on that vintage look with three hooks fixed straight to the hookhangers without splitrings , .......on later models I might use only two trebles attached the modern way .

 

Now after having shot the pictures I'm disassembling the hardware again , so that I could proceed carving out the final body shape .

 

 

 

 

 

Greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

Is it just my eyes, or does the lure "hunt"?

I saw it as well in Vic's video , Mark !

 

Greetz , Dieter

[littleriver]

Mark 

 

The plastic version I purchased off ebay photoed here does indeed hunt.   It is more pronounced at higher speeds but was easy to achieve and maintain without much effort. A really nice surprise. I wasn't expecting this action from this bait. The lure has a very interesting history as well. It is worth a read to visit some of the early links posted here. Seems one fisherman liked the lure so much he bought the company just so he could continue to have it available. 

 

Dieter

 

I see what you mean on a variety of subtle design differences. I too believe homemades should have some level of success. Your bait is looking great, Very  jeleous just now as you are way ahead of me    . I will have to find my way to the shop soon. I really like that old school look with the hooks. Nice add !!

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Sorry to leave you behind for that matter , Vic , ...but I'd like to have that lure done before my vacation by end of this month ! 

 

Was lucky to get done with the carving Sunday night , ...now I'm gonna place the blank into propionate to seal .

 

I've found , that two hookpoints of the front hook need to point forward , if it is only one hookpoint , this one could get into reach of the notch at the chin and thus bind the hook in there .

 

Gotta take care of that matter , when finally assembling hookhangers with epoxy glue , .....can't wait for a first test swim of the sealed blank , anyway .

 

Greetz , Dieter

 

 

 

 

 

[scrubs]

That's looking really nice Dieter. Any idea on color yet?

 

I think I like the hand painted schemes Pfeffer did as well as the lure itself. I'd like to do some hand painted schemes on my lures as well as airbrushing. I have a single action but I hate messing with it.

 

bill

[littleriver]

scrubs

 

I have a nice airbrush, pump, and booth with more paint than I know what to do with but honestly, I prefer the brush. Soo simple to use and best of all I can do it on the couch. I just like it. 

 

Dieter

 

I made some progress the past couple of days. Band saw and carving knife were the weapons of choice. I did have to install a substantial ballast and used a dremel for this job. Next time, I think I will use a heavier wood to cut down on ballast. Especially, if i am going to make this any bigger. I took it out for a test run last night .    I am happy with initial results. I seem to be experincing the same problem with front hook . Not sure turning is going to help since it is so close to front. May have to go with a short shank hook. Here is a look 

 

 

Ready for paint!

Edited September 3, 2013 by littleriver

[diemai]

@ scrubs

 

No coloration idea yet , Bill , ...but I guess , that I'm gonna do something like an about natural shad pattern with brighter belly and dark back .

 

I do not have any airbrush gear , I'm presently painting my lures by hand utilizing acrylic paints , ......I like their options of applying different colors with a wet-in-wet technique , ........either doing all brush strokes in one direction or also mottled .

 

The genuine old Pfeffer patterns do really look good , ...I might give it a go some day as well , ........here is an example of a fellow tinkerer , that has already done it :

 

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/814614/pfeffer-wounded-shiner-reproduction-plug

 

@ littleriver

 

Very nice , Vic , ......the test run of my own might be on Friday , as the propionate dipping and curing would take at least two days , gonna take it out of the prop soak by tomorrow , after dip on a couple of sealer coats .

 

Guess , that whilst dipping the mouth notch would clog up with laquer quite a bit , would have to carefully sand it back to shape still maintaining a prop layer onto it .

 

Probably you've even got it worse with the front hook binding , as you're using splitrings , ....after I would have learned a bit more about the swimming level and action of that lure I would surely go for only two trebles to avoid the problem on future lures .

 

I guess that on coming weekend I'd carve out some smaller versions of abache wood , but I might still do at least one of these in the tradional three-hook style without splitrings , .....just to add some belly weight to the abache blank.......I shall see .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[littleriver]

Thanks Dieter,

 

Honestly , not as nice as yours but you do have a few years on me.  But I am not going to let that stop me. I should have listened to your senior advice and used a heavier wood myself but you know how it is with youngsters. You can lead them to water but you can't make them drink. 

 

Are you going  to do a water line test once water sealed ? If I had not done one my bait, it surely would have flopped. I am curious how the teak fairs. 

 

Looking froward to seeing your progress . Thank you for the lesson...

[scrubs]

I've got a long way to go before my brush painting looks like you guys do. My first plug in years and years turned out butt ugly (action was nice tho). I've kind of gotten side tracked on pike/muskie spinners the last week or two.

 

bill

[diemai]

Hi Folks ,

 

Just gave my blank a swim in the tub , ...and I'm kinda sad or at least somewhat disappointed about the outcome !

 

 

The lure hangs about 15° to 20° lopsided on the surface at rest , ..my first thought was , that this is caused by different densities inside of the wood blank , as all of the hookhangers are centered well , .......but now I'm also thinking , that it could be just because the belly part is a tad wider than the back portion , rendering the lure somewhat unstable .

 

This unstability certainly is an important part of the entire design , as it allows the lure model to swim like it does in Vic's video , ...there must just be some design properties not matching one another with my own version !

 

 

As far , as we have heard in here , the original lure does not have any ballast added , but as it seems , I could not get around placing some weight to let it hang at least level at rest .

 

But on the other hand any belly ballast would surely dampen the moderate wiggle even more , I reckon .

 

By experience I know , that less denser and more buoyant wood does provide a livelier action compared to heavier timber material , so I'm looking forward to the test of those abache blanks , once they'd be done ,.....maybe in comparison I could figure out things better ?

 

But before I would take any action in terms of doctoring on this teakwood lure , I would take it to the fishing pond somewhen next week and see what it does there , ..I've figured out that the tub is just too small for testing sucha lure .

 

 

Off course any input and advice is very welcome , ......thanks a lot for your support , ...greetz , Dieter

 

 

@ littleriver

 

Here you've got your lesson , Vic , .....maybe not quite the kind , that we both had expected    !

 

@ scrubs

 

Bill , don't bother about paintjobs , that did not turn out well , ....trust me , fish do not bother , ..they've got different preferences , .......if the swimming action is right , they will hit it    !

[scrubs]

Yah, you're right about paint jobs but there's an ego element involved. Fishing with a group as I do when they come over to ask "what did you get it on?" you like to be able to show them something cool.

 

I looked back at post #35 and it seems that the lure balances at the same angle and to the same side sitting on the plastic box. I am the LAST one in the world to be making suggestions but what about static balancing it side to side. Stick a couple of pins in the front and back & hold the pins by your finger tips to see if one side's heavier.

 

bill

[littleriver]

@ Dieter

 

I think the bait  looks great! Sorry about the problem though. I have to wonder if it it was the soak in the prop overnight that may be responsible. I had a terrible time with this when soaking baits in linseed oil. One side of the bait would sometimes wick in more oil that another and leave me with a bait that just did not sit well in the water. One suggestion to know for sure if it is the wood or the process is to water line test another bait made from teak  before water proofing to see how she sits.  If ok, then move to prop waterproofing once the bait drys and water test again same as you did before.My hope is this experiment might find the problem and help prevent it on future builds. I eventually moved to superglue waterproofing. I know it is not as good as the prop but Ilike it because it is fast ,cheap, light  and never has a bad effect on the performance. It is one problem I can rule out. 

 

I think she is fixable Dieter. She sits pretty low in the water, so if your going to use weight I suggest using as little as possible and as close to the center or perhaps a little forward of center of gravity . You may be able to right the ship by moving that front hook over to one side a bit. Heck move it back a little too while your at it. I think this may be the simplest solution. I like Bill's  pin idea too. Speaking of pins, I was thinking your could remove that front hook and take a pin with a weight hanging from it with matching the appx weight of front hook and mounting hardware and use to temporarily stick into lure to see if moving this hook position will indeed fix the problem . You may need to move both hooks a little . This way you would not have to drill new holes for nothing. The pin and weight could also be used if the moving of hangers is not desired or not effective.  Just use it  help locate the position of and how much weight is need to right the lure. 

 

That is about all i have Dieter perhaps some one will have an even better idea but I think the bait is very much salvageable with a bit of tinkering. The baits wants to swim and if you get her to sit  right I believe she will. 

 

Here is a look  at my finished bait . Next week I will do some video of the action in the outdoors, as you say. I'll not spoil the surprise. 

 

Edited September 7, 2013 by littleriver

[wchilton]

Diemai,

 

I notice that your blank has a sort of oval-shape wood-grain pattern on the top/left side which is the side trying to orient upward.  It could either be a difference in density of different layers of wood, or with that much soaking time the propionate or solvent may have soaked deeper into one part of the wood than the other.  Some makers (other forums) actually hydro-test their blanks to determine which side is heavier so they can mount hooks on the side that naturally rotates to the bottom.  You could try adding some weight to the right side of the bait in the form of a small nail or wire.  I would wrap a rubber band around the lure and use it to hold small weights against the blank to determine approximately how much weight will make the bait sit upright before permanently attaching them.  You may even be able to test-swim the lure with weight temporarily held in place.  I've done that before to determine amount and placement of weight that gives an action I want.

[diemai]

Thank you so much for your advices , guys ,.... ..I appreciate all of them very much .

 

So it seems , that I was on the right path thinking , that the lopsided swimming level would have to do with the internal woodgrain , ....but to be be honest , I've never thought about an uneven soaking of the propionate sealer , but which sounds pretty much logical to me as well in the aftermath .

 

 

I'm relatively new to propionate sealing and only did a few unweighted baits with it so far , ....so I may be accidental , that I did never experience such before .

 

But all the facts do match , .....I've purposely chosen this particular wood chunk , (formerly the armrest of a broken garden chair) because of the way , the grain passes through it , .........it was the only matching piece of timber sizewise , that did NOT have the grain leading parallel to the flanks of the lureblank , as this would have meant , that I would have had to run the belly screw eyes parallel to the grains either .

 

For stability reasons I do not like to do this , I always like to lead my screw eyes CROSSWISE the woodgrain , as they would surely sit more firm this way .

 

Did not have a sufficiently sized timber piece to fulfill these conditions being still large enough to cut out the body height of the lure , .........so this piece of wood with is's grains running somewhat slant through it would still allow the belly screw eyes to pass through the grain at least under an angle , yet if a crosswise pass is not possible .

 

But now I see , what may come out of it , ....probably I should not bother about the directions of the screweyes anymore in future but rather more the direction of woodgrain ?

 

I had heard about this hydro-testing before , ...but naturally this would only work with spindle-shaped , lathe-turned blanks , I guess ?

 

Anyway , ...now after having received all your bits of ideas , experiences and knowledge , I'm pretty much convinced , that I will still get this baby to perform , .......and ,.... even more important , ...possibly avoid such troubles in future by choosing the timber material more carefully , .......live and learn !

 

@ littleriver

 

Your version looks great in your distinctive paint style , ...hope , that you'd do better than me in terms of an attractive swimming action , eager to see the video !

 

@ scrubs

 

.................I understand about that ego-thing regarding your paintjobs , ...but I would not bother  personally , as the one that catches is on solid ground  !

 

Thanks so much again everybody      , ................gonna keep you updated , ......greetz , Dieter

[wchilton]

diemai,

 

Just to add a bit more now that you mention where the wood came from.  If that old chair was exposed to weather and sun then the wood may have weathered differently on the underside than on the top.  Also, teak is a type of wood that people use outdoors and apply oil to for protection, so there could be more oil accumulation on one side than the other.  What this all suggests to me is that when using recycled wood I just need to pay special attention to properties that may vary due to the way it has aged.  Thanks for posting your experiences.  The lessons learned help us all.

 

Regards,

Warren

[littleriver]

Here is the video of my homemade Pfeffer banana. I am please with it's action. It is not exactly the same as original but not too far off. I spent the most time getting the huge ballast weight perfectly centered so the bait would sit proper in the water. Small adjustments went a long way on this one.

 

The video starts with the bait dressed with three sets of hooks . The second half of the video I have replaced the last treble with  a buck tail treble trailer . Both action pretty good but the buck tailed version was less lively but could be worked faster. I tried a third version with a large curly tail but took no footage of the action. The large tail was too much drag and killed the action. the bait turned into a straight shooter. A smaller curly tail would surely work though. 

 

Here it is:

 

[RayburnGuy]

Looks real close to the original Vic. Nice job.

 

Ben

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

Vic , ...in my opinion your version even has a better action than the original  , ...just watched that first video prior to this one !

 

I see , that the bucktail rig about compares to the original , but with the untied rear hook it surely swims somewhat livelier , especially in terms of a hunting pattern , ...this is just great       !

 

Thanks a lot for having taking the effort to display , really amazing   !

 

I figure out , that I also won't getting around placing ballast in my own versions , ...just got done with my three differently sized abachewood versions this weekend , these blanks came out very light .

 

Now they are soaking in propionate , could probably do first testing by Thursday or Friday after the following propionate dips would have cured , .........gonna keep you updated in here .

 

@ wchilton

 

Thanks again for your thoughts , Warren , ..... sounds very logical to me and there surely is point about it .

 

I have often used scrap wood from old furniture , namely stool and table legs of beechwood , a common local hardwood , .....turned these down to spindle-shaped sinking glidebaits .

 

I must admit , that I had never bothered about the previously mentioned hydro test for these , .......due to the heavy belly ballast making up for sink rates of up to one foot per second , there were no issues about lopsided swimming , anyway .

 

Or maybe I was only lucky , since I always took care , that the woodgrain would come to sit about parallel to the water's surface(no problem with round lureblanks) , so that the screweyes would pass crosswise through the grain .

 

Anyway , ..thanks for making us smarter with your ínputs   ,  .......also thanks again , Vic , ...wish my own Pfeffer knock-offs would turn out to swim at least a little bit like yours , ....greetz , Dieter

[scrubs]

Nice action Vic, turned out really well. Between the videos you and Dieter post I keep expecting something to come up and slam the lures.

 

bill