Jim Pfeffer Banana Lure

[littleriver]

Thank you gentlemen,

Now will the fish go for it. I think so. The action reminds me of a fluke. I got a bit lucky; I think. One tip I'll pass along not already discussed is I placed the ballast near the center of gravity. That center was found with hooks and hangers installed.

Dieter

I look forward to seeing your abachi lures progress. I am sure once your past the uneven weight issue they will turn out fine. I was really impressed how close the teak sat in the water in reference to waterline. Very close to original. I would like to try one using a wood similar. I think you had something there. Just too bad. If I find some wood with similar density I will try it too. Thank you again for sharing this bait with us.

[diemai]

Hi , Folks ,

 

Just a quick update , .........gave my three abachewood "Pfeffers" a Brief swim in the tub this morning , .......ALL of them hang lopsided , the bigger 4" Version about 45° , the smallest version only 10° , the other one somewhere inbetween , , ....I guess this is because of the relation between hardware and buoyant material , that the smallest , lest voluminous lure performs the best !

 

The smallie still swam reasonably well , the two bigger ones naturally did not .

 

I think , that the problem also results from the crossections of the lure , ..the belly portion is somewhat wider than the back , this certainly provides some kind of sideward instability .

 

On the other hand , this instability is essential to have the lure hunt , without it it would probably only come back straight sporting a little wiggle .

 

So well , ..I guess , I've  got to place just enough belly weight to have the lure swim JUST upright , ...maybe not even placing ballast out of center , but centered ,........any more ballast than this would dampen the action , both in terms of wiggling and also hunting , .........gonna be delicate to trim , I guess !

 

 

Cheers , Dieter

[scrubs]

Dieter,

Sorry to hear that. It's nice that you post all the steps for newbs like me tho. Maybe if Vic would post a pic of his floating in a sink you could get an idea of how much ballast to add. Are you going to rubber band it on first to get an idea of how much and where?

 

Vic,

How do you do your streaked finishes? Do you use a "dry brush" technique or individual lines?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

bill

[littleriver]

@Dieter

 

They look perfect. Mine sat the same in water without any ballast (lopsided). I just added enough weight to the center to get the bait to sit in the water like the original. A little off to the left or right and she would not sit well. The center for my lure was a little behind that front hook hanger. I used a slip sinker, I flattened it out a bit so it would not sit so high in the lure. Not sure about the wieght of this sinker so I am not saying because I do not want to mislead . But it was a big one.

 

@bill

 

Not sure what you call the technique. I think it is similar to dry brush but the brush is wet just not so much . Often I will strike the first stroke on a piece of paper. But I am getting to the point where I can load the brush with the right amount of paint without doing this step. Only going to the paper when I know I overdid it. I dilute my acrylics to the point they are essentially watercolor. I dip a paper clip in the bottle of paint i am going to work with and dilute this in a solution of 50/50 water alcohol solution . The solution also has a few drops of  glycerin for good measure. The dilution solution is pre made. I dilute the paint on the paperclip in a medicine cup with a few drops of the solution. The paint may be be darker or lighter by simply adding more paint. I use a small watercolor brush to do the work. The tip of this brush is teased. By teased I mean the tip is puffed up in all directions (fibers seperated). You'll have to ruin the brush to get it to this point . It is done by pushing the brush hard into the bottom of a cup. I would use a paint in the cup . Tiny particles are forced into the brush head and after cleaning some will be left giving the brush this teased look. Getting a brush to this condition is the tough part. Once you have a brush like this thin it is just a matter of wetting it a bit so a few strands stick together at different points all over the brush . Now your ready to paint. The good news once you have the brush in this condition it can be used over and over. I have been using the same brush since I started. You may have to try a few brushes to find one you like. 

Edited September 13, 2013 by littleriver

[mark poulson]

Vic,

Your lure swims terrific!  Congrats!!!

Be sure and use a heavy enough line that it doesn't get "stolen" by a big fish!

[diemai]

@ scrubs

 

Yeah , ...guess I'm going to utilize rubber bands or insulation tape to fix temporary ballast , ....pretty sure , that I could get them to perform .

 

Like Vic said , it would take just enough ballast to have the lure sit straight and leveled , by getting heavier than neccessary one might give away some of the possible swimming action , I assume .

 

 

@ littleriver

 

Once more your hints are worth as gold , Vic , .......I was thinking about placing the weights higher into the interior of the blanks , ...now I'm gonna keep them close to the belly .

 

Don't worry about being unable to tell the exact weight of the ballast , it has to be determined individually , anyway .

 

Probably I might not get to proceed this weekend , working weekend shifts now , ..not that much leisure time , but surely I'll keep you updated .

 

Thanks a lot , ..greetz , Dieter

[scrubs]

Vic,

Thanks for the info. I used to do a lot of that type of painting of decorative and decoy style carvings.

 

Deiter,

I guess on second look those were pretty inane comments I made. Oh well, engage brain before typing.  Looking forward to your next posts on these.

 

bill

[littleriver]

@ mark 

 

Thank you! Your right; i would sure hate to lose this one. Working on a second now. We have lots of big stripers on some of the local lakes. I hear they are starting to feed at the surface. I can see one inhaling this bait.   

 

@diemai

 

I believe if you get em sitting proper in the water they should swim. Good luck !!! We need a second and i am counting on you. 

 

@scrubs

 

These lures are my first attempts at painting anything except walls. It has been a slow process for me but confidence comes with each one. It is great that you have experience. I like painting lures this way. It is slower but I feel more personal and I am in no hurry. 

[Griffond]

Diemai great video earlier today you posted on youtube I was hoping to see one of these lures in it... but you didnt have one! How are they coming along?

[diemai]

Diemai great video earlier today you posted on youtube I was hoping to see one of these lures in it... but you didnt have one! How are they coming along?

 

Just put them in the waterbucket today to determine about ballast amount and location , ...also glued in ballast , after they had dried  , ......gonna skip another blank test and gonna start priming tomorrow evenning .

 

Since I'm not the fastest of a luremaker and due to my time consuming painting processes , it would not be before 10 days , until I would have them finally done , maybe even a fortnight ?

 

BTW , ...on the biggest teakwood lure I had to fix the ballast off center , just like Warren had suggested  , ...no other chance to have it float up straight and leveled , ........first bait ever I've trimmed this way , really eager to try it for action .

 

The weight locations determined were just like Vic had said , a little behind the front hook hanger  , .....only with the smallest abachewood  lure I had to place a flattened  .22 cal round airgun pellet right in front of the belly hook hanger to have the lure float up horizontally on the surface , looks like the significantly smaller body volume in relation to hooks and hardware changes things quite a bit .

 

greetz , Dieter

[Griffond]

good use of a pellet gun pellet I would have never thought to use one of those for weighting 

[diemai]

good use of a pellet gun pellet I would have never thought to use one of those for weighting 

 

Still had these left , as I used them as sliding weights on my "Weightshifter" lures , ...also using .177 round pellets and dia. 7mm leadballs from a local supplier :

 

http://www.shop-011.de/maxe-s70h1-Blei-Kugeln.html

 

I would pre-drill the weight holes and widen them to approbiate ball shape with some Dremel ball router bits , a bit more elaborate than just drilling matching holes , but this way I don't take away more material than neccessary .

 

Might also consider about getting some pencil lead  8mm or 10 mm for bigger lures , .....would be easy just to snip off required lengths :

 

http://www.shop-011.de/maxe-s71h1-Blei-Profile-Bleista.html

 

 

But a couple of weeks ago I had just bought 50 lbs of 1mm leadsheet from a local scrapyard ,.... though sold as scrap it is still in a good condition without any paints or other tarnished layers on it , I intend to melt it for casting heavier disc sinkers for river fishing , but I'm also using it for lure trimming .

 

Either placed into belly slots of through wired lures or cut into strips rolled up to small drums and comprimed a bit to be placed into belly holes .

 

Did such rolled up sheet weight chunk for the largest of the abachewood bananas .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

Hi , Folks ,

 

Finally got done with my "Pfeffers" , managed to take them to the pond today and gave them a test swim .

 

It may not be clearly visible in the video , but they all do wiggle nicely and also sport the significant hunting action , ...at least in my point of view .

 

 

Seemingly they did not turn out to be as buoyant as Vic's version , but still I'm pretty much satisfied with their performance .

 

My special gratitudes go to Vic for having provided so much help and assistance      , without his help I surely would not have made it that far with these lures .

 

Hope you won't mind about the other lures displayed in that video , .....just took a chance to put them all on film , ...thanks a lot again EVERYBODY for all of your input and help in here       , ......really enjoyed this little lure "joint venture" across the Great Pond , I'm truly happy with the outcome       !

 

tight lines , Dieter

[scrubs]

Weighted version looks good Dieter. I'll have to do one or two this winter when building takes precidence.

 

bill

[littleriver]

They look great Dieter!

 

 Really glad you were able to capture the action from the information.   All the Pffiefer bananas had the hunt in the different sizes too. I liked seeing that too from your lures. Thank you for sharing.   I think the shape is the secret to to this lures action . It means, It doesn't have to be perfect ; just close enough to count. 

 

Your other lures are inspiring as well. I liked seeing the different actions that are possible with lures and the collection you have there showcases several actions. Nice to see. Seems you have figured out which work best for your local pike at different times of year. I wish I knew so much about my local bass but your lessons are helping. 

 

Thank you           

[mark poulson]

Dieter,

Great work!

Do you guys think the higher line tie on the Pfeffer lures has something to do with the hunting action?

I made some shallow running foiled square bills with more of a rattle trap profile, thinking they would have a tight wiggle with their flat sides, but they X like crazy.  I'm pretty sure it's because I put all the ballast in the front hook hanger.

I'm going to make a couple with the ballast split in front and behind the front hanger, and I'm going to try one with the line tie up on the forehead, like the Pfeffer lures.

[littleriver]

Mark

 

I think it is a part of the formula for this baits action. I have not tried it but i am thinking moving the line tie  to the nose of the Pfeffer would kill most of the baits action. moving it further back from the nose would lead to a bait with the tendency to blowout.  The front(nose) of the bait is acting as a bill on the bait. The two gliders I made have the line tie right on the nose. These baits hunt some when slowly reeled but lack the little wobble the banana has to its action. One of the gliders is weighted much the same as the Pfeffer and nearly as wide but shape and line tie location are producing an entirely different action. I also think width of body, body shape, line tie location and placement of ballast are having some effect on action; though some , if misplaced , can be catastrophic. 

[littleriver]

@mark

 

Though I have not seen the bait your talking about with the wide x action, my thoughts are to tighten the action of this bait I would try moving the line tie closer to the bill. Maybe even moving the line tie to the bill.  Moving the line tie closer should  help. If not an option, shortening and narrowing bill may help too. 

[diemai]

Thanks a lot , folks , ...I' so glad , These "Pfeffers" turned out well !

 

@ littleriver

 

Vic , without your help I would not not have gotten as far , so thanks a lot again , my friend   !

 

Regarding the desired lure actions at different times of year :

 

Fish are cold blooded animals , so their physical activities depend on the temperature of the water , they're living in .

 

During the summer months water temps around here would be somewhere between 18° and 23° centigrade , so in theorry there would be the highest and most lively fish activity during these months , hundreds of thousands small fry and minnows are moving about in large schools , there is forage enough for all creatures in the water systems .

 

This is the time of year , smaller lures with a livelier action are in order , as the preyfish are also small and lively(due to higher temps) , ...one can even catch better predators with just pinkie-sized lures .

 

Only drawback is , that the higher temps and sunlight in summer enhance algae growth , and this takes oxygene from the water , so at high temps fish are often reluctant to bite during the day , their activities take part around the hour of sunrise and sunset then , some species also at night .

 

On the other hand , as in fall the water temps do chill down again , the schools of fry and minnows had become significantly less in numbers due to having been eaten up , due to the lower water temps the physical activity of the fish also becomes less , not so much forage around anymore as well .

 

Predators do not live in Fairy Land anymore and have to change their habbits , ....instead of wasting too much energy to hunt after a few or the rare small minnows , they'd rather wait , until a bigger bite comes along , that would fill their bellies for less hunting effort .

 

This is why bigger lures are better suited in fall and winter , and since the prey fish do not act as lively in the colder water , the lure action should also be somewhat moderate , just not get the predator wary .

 

I had read about this long time ago , and by the years of my own fishing experiences , I can only second to it , ......though , ...as always , there might be exeptions to the rule  !

 

@ mark poulson

 

 Mark , I think  that there are a few factors playing their part  , not just the line tie position , ...but nevertheless all must match one another .

 

Look at the cross section , it is kinda egg-shaped with the more pointed part being towards the back of the lure .

 

So more buoancy at the belly portion , rendering the lure unstable and providing the tendency to lay on it's side , .......this tendency has to be counterworked with just enough belly ballast to let the lure swim upright at rest again .

 

The relatively high line tie also has a tentency to pull the lure onto it's side(thus guide it into a sideward swimming direction finally leading into the hunting action) , .......and the notch at the chin of the lure angles into the oncoming current at this stage tending to level the lure upright again ,.......the belly ballast also does it's share to have the lure sit upright again .

 

But at this very stage the lure would have already swam out of course to the straight line pull direction , so the force of the pulling line becomes increasingly stronger at one side of the lure and at one momement the lure would change direction towards the line pull to finally sport that certain "S" wave course , that we refer to as a hunting action .

 

Just my own    , Mark .

 

 

@ scrubs

 

Looks like you've got all the info you'd need in here , Bill , ...good luck with these .

 

Thanks again   , folks , .....greetz , Dieter

[littleriver]

@diemai

 

Thank you Dieter for the lengthy and very informative explanation. 

         

I know I will get some milage out this information both as a lure builder and fisherman. 

   

Thank you!!!!

  

 

I was reading yesterday in a recent fishing magazine that lure size selection is one of the most important selections a fisherman can make. One has to ask what size are the fry they are eating? Then try  to match as close as possible. This information goes perfectly with your explanation of the seasons. 

 

Thank you!!!

[mark poulson]

I made two mores lure identical to the ones that X really widely, but with one variation each.

They are all 2 1/4" long, 7/8" tall, 1/2" thick, of PVC trimboard, and weigh 12.3 grams fully dressed out.  I V'd the bodies, so they are 5/16' at the belly and 1/2" at the back.

The first I made with the same 3 gram front hook hanger, but I move the line tie up onto the "forehead" of the lure, about 1/4" from the square bill.  It swam with a much tighter wiggle/smaller X.  I really like it.  I was able to burn it back to the with no roll at all.

 

The second I split the 3 gram ballast into two and added them in front of and behind the front hook hanger.  The front weight was 1.6 grams, and the rear was 1.4, because I didn't split them exactly evenly.

That bait also had a tighter wiggle/X.  It rolled a little when I burned it back to the boat.

I actually like the first better and plan to make more like that, with the line tie higher.  I may add a second line tie to some of the hard X'ing lures I already made, to see if that will tighten their X'ing, too.

 

As soon as I can, I'll post a photo.

Edited October 6, 2013 by mark poulson

[mark poulson]

Here's the photo in the hardbaits gallery:

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/11984-20131006-083429/

 

I don't know how to attach a photo to this reply page directly, and my IT person is three thousand mile away, in college in Toronto, so I'm screwed!  Hahaha

[littleriver]

@mark

 

They both look good Mark. If I understood correctly, you changed the shape a bit on these new baits by giving them a v profile in addition to the line tie position and ballast adjustments?

 

To add photos directly one has to select more reply options tab bottom right of reply page. Then one will be provided the attach file option at bottom left of reply box. Pretty much same from here as uploading pictures to gallery. 

[mark poulson]

littleriver,

Thanks for the tutorial.

 

I V'd all the previous lures like these, too, so the only variables were the split ballast and the raised line tie.

I purposely put the raised line tie on the one with the hook hanger ballast, the same exact design that had produced wide X'ing on previous lures of this design, so I could see how the raised line tie alone affected the action.

Likewise, I only split the ballast on the other lure, but left the line tie just above the lip, so I could see how that affected the lure's action.

Next, I'm going to add a second, higher line tie on one of the previously built lures that has a wide X action, to see if it will make for a tighter action.

[littleriver]

Mark

 

Good stuff...............Thank you for clearing that up for me...............I am learning with you.................Thanks for sharing the progress........